Faisal Hussain - the evolving story

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

So anything that suggests this was Islamic terrorism is completely dismissed by you, then, right?  Not even a possibility worth considering. 

Find a CREDIBLE source and maybe I would not dismiss it out of hand.   At the very least I would have to go to the trouble of finding an equally credible source to dispute it.  With all the attention about fake news and Russian trolls and bots, you'd think there would be at least a little interest here for making even a slight effort to provide credible sources instead of desperatly defending poor ones.

He was just a poor, mentally ill man, deserving of our sympathies.

I don't personally care if you have sympathy for this guy or not; I do not, as I have already posted on this thread.  

Edit, and I'm not saying it WAS terrorism,

I don't know if it was mental health issues or terrorism; I would guess both, personally, but I might be wrong.  

but I at least am going to consider the possibility and not dismiss information out of hand

Speculation is not information.  Here is the "logic" behind the CFP article.

1.  Faisal Hussain shot 15 people; two died.

2.  FH had a brother who was involved in a criminal lifestyle.

3. The police found a cache containing guns and 42 kg of carfentanil at the brother's house over a year ago.

4.  Carfentinal is very toxic and that much would kill a lot of people.

5.  "Authority" said that carfentinal has been considered a potential chemical warfare weapon.

6. Therefore, the brother was planning a terrorist attack.

7.  That the authorities/media are not confirming this means they are hiding information from us.

8. And because its now "proven" that brother was planning a terrorist attack, FH's attack was terrorism and the authories are once again hiding info from us.

Of course "anything" is possible.  But this article proves nothing.  Like all fake news sites, it cobbles together a few bits of information, fills the holes with speculation, and uses fear to override people's thinking ability. Then it presents a conclusion, while conveniently making any conflicting information a plot to hide the truth.   

It isn't possible to persuade someone your argument is sound if you use BS logic and stupid sources.  Its barely possible to persuade them using pristine logic and sources.  In this case, the problem isn't that I refuse to accept info I don't like, the problem is that CFP is not a credible source.  I don't know why you keep insisting that I have to accept the information it provides.  Perhaps if fewer people were so willing to accept fake news sites as legitimate sources of informatiom we might all be better off.

There is just as much evidence that this is terrorism as there is that he was merely an innocent person with a few mental issues.

I think its pretty much established that he had mental issues, and that there is a definite possibility he was inspired or triggered by some radical Islam rhetoric; I just don't think the terrorism link been firmly established yet.  

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, turningrite said:

If this is the case, it appears to be the government's fault. It's up to the government to set the record straight.

Out of lunch time, but wanted to say you make some good points. 

But I ask you, even if the gov/media released a statement that FH's actions had no links to terrorism and provided supporting details, would that be accepted?  Or would certain people still say "They aren't telling us everything"?

[GostHacked]

Lol using carfentanil as a terror weapon.

4 minutes ago, dialamah said:

 I don't personally care if you have sympathy for this guy or not; I do not, as I have already posted on this thread. 

I don't know if it was mental health issues or terrorism; I would guess both, personally, but I might be wrong. 

Terrible way to frame an argument. I guess, but I don't know, I could be wrong .. nothing but speculation.

[Goddess]

14 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Speculation is not information. 

Ya.  And guess what, sweetie?  You're not the only one who knows the difference between speculation and information.  If you don't like people speculating, then get off of discussion forums.  Or at least let people discuss things without you screeching from your moral high horse.  Sheesh.  

 

Quote

I think its pretty much established that he had mental issues, and that there is a definite possibility he was inspired or triggered by some radical Islam rhetoric; I just don't think the terrorism link been firmly established yet.  

 

It's pretty revealing that you so desperately want the "mentally ill" narrative to be true that you are willing to allow that to be just "pretty much" established.  But Islamic terrorism?  No, that has to be "firmly" established for you to believe that........

 

But ya, you're the only one here who's completely unbiased.......

 

Edited July 31, 2018 by Goddess

[GostHacked]

Just now, Goddess said:

Ya.  And guess what, sweetie?  You're not the only one who knows the difference between speculation and information.  If you don't like people speculating, then get off of discussion forums.  Or at least let people discuss things without you screeching from your moral high horse.  Sheesh.  

 

 

It's pretty revealing that you so desperately want the "mentally ill" narrative to be true that you are willing to allow that to be just "pretty much" established.  But Islamic terrorism?  No, that has to be "firmly" established for you to believe that........

 

But ya, you're the only here who's completely unbiased.......

 

I have no problem with speculation if you have no problem being called out on it. Carry on.

[Goddess]

Just now, GostHacked said:

I have no problem with speculation if you have no problem being called out on it. Carry on.

Everyone is speculating.  So is Dia.  She just likes to think that her specculating is morally superior.

[GostHacked]

20 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Everyone is speculating.  So is Dia.  She just likes to think that her specculating is morally superior.

Interesting I get that impression on both sides.

[dialamah]

40 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Lol using carfentanil as a terror weapon.

Terrible way to frame an argument. I guess, but I don't know, I could be wrong .. nothing but speculation.

LOL.  Yup.

[capricorn]

45 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Lol using carfentanil as a terror weapon.

Would you be willing to find out first hand?

[GostHacked]

1 minute ago, capricorn said:

Would you be willing to find out first hand?

Strawman argument in my view. Since the brother is a drug dealer, my guess is guy was SELLING the drugs instead of prepping a terror attack. And since the stuff is so potent, how careful was he with his storage and handling of it all? He must have been very careful as he could have easily killed himself just being near that much.

[Goddess]

55 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Lol using carfentanil as a terror weapon.

You and Dia can LOL all you want, it's already been done:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carfentanil

I

Quote

n 2012, a team of researchers at the British chemical and biological defence laboratories at Porton Down found carfentanil and remifentanil in clothing from two British survivors of the 2002 Moscow theater hostage crisis and in the urine from a third survivor. The team concluded that the Russian military used an aerosol mist of carfentanil and remifentanil to subdue Chechen hostage takers.^[6]

 

Quote

The toxicity of carfentanil in humans and its ready commercial availability has aroused concerns over its potential use as a weapon of mass destruction by rogue nations and terrorist groups.^[3]

https://globalnews.ca/news/3108514/lethal-carfentanil-could-be-used-by-terrorists-in-mass-attacks-experts-say/

 

Quote

“Could it be weaponized? Yeah, it could be weaponized,” said Peter Ostrovsky, Assistant Special Agent in Charge at Homeland Security Investigations in the U.S. “Because so little can affect so many, there’s just a greater concern.”

 

 

Those are just a couple links, but there's lots more for you two to look at while you're yucking it up, laughing and moralizing at the rest of us.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Goddess

[Goddess]

5 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

my guess is guy was SELLING the drugs instead of prepping a terror attack.

One unit of carfentanyl can bring down a 10,000 pound elephant.  You think he was planning on selling 42 kilos of it on the street?  

[GostHacked]

4 minutes ago, Goddess said:

You and Dia can LOL all you want, it's already been done:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carfentanil

I

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/3108514/lethal-carfentanil-could-be-used-by-terrorists-in-mass-attacks-experts-say/

 

 

 

Those are just a couple links, but there's lots more for you two to look at while you're yucking it up, laughing and moralizing at the rest of us.

I am not saying it's impossible, but I find it improbable. However the notion of it has already got some of you scared of it.

But was it a terror attack from the Russian Military on Chechen rebels holding people HOSTAGE?  That might stick some in the craw, but there you go. The Russians don't mess around. I know, getting off topic.

 

[GostHacked]

And for what it's worth,  this Internet has already been weaponized for over 20 years. I know you won't take my word for it. And this Internet is more widespread than the drug.

Edited July 31, 2018 by GostHacked

[Goddess]

Just now, GostHacked said:

I am not saying it's impossible, but I find it improbable.

Why is it "improbable" to you that someone stockpiling 42 kilos of a chemical weapon might be planning on using it as a chemical weapon?

[dialamah]

40 minutes ago, Goddess said:

And guess what, sweetie? 

Sweetie?  

You're not the only one who knows the

difference between speculation and information. 

Hard to tell when people use and defend garbage information.

If

you don't like people speculating, then get off of discussion forums.

I suppose telling people to shut up and go away is another way of dealing with information you don't want to hear.

Or at least let people discuss things without you screeching from your moral high horse.

Awww ... I must have made a damn fine argument for you to get so upset.   

Sheesh.

Indeed.  

.

It's pretty revealing that you so desperately want the "mentally ill" narrative to be true that you are willing to allow that to be just "pretty much" established.  But Islamic terrorism?  No, that has to be "firmly" established for you to believe that

"Pretty much" and "firmly" were kinda the same in my mind.  But I understand that in your desperate attempt to make me wrong, you will grasp at any straws, so I will rephrase:

I think its firmly established that he had mental issues of some kind, and that there is a definite possibility he was inspired or triggered by some radical Islam rhetoric; I just don't think the terrorism link been as firmly established as the mental health issues yet.  

But ya, you're the only one here who's completely unbiased..

I am very biased against some things, yes.  So what?  

[DogOnPorch]

4 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Why is it "improbable" to you that someone stockpiling 42 kilos of a chemical weapon might be planning on using it as a chemical weapon?

 

It is improbable due to Islam being a major factor, here. As we know, Islam is the Religion of Peace and Muslims the perfect people incapable of violence.

[Goddess]

1 minute ago, dialamah said:

 think its firmly established that he had mental issues of some kind, and that there is a definite possibility he was inspired or triggered by some radical Islam rhetoric; I just don't think the terrorism link been as firmly established as the mental health issues yet.

I don't think either one has been "firmly established."

He had a couple of mental issues with the police - it could have been nothing more than him casuing a scene in a Walmart.  We don't know because no one is telling us.  So far, it's only a Muslim spin doctor saying he had severe psychosis and the police saying he had a couple of issues with them but no info.

Personally, I find it difficult to believe he had "severe psychosis" and no one else noticed - not his freinds, not his work, not his neighbors.  You might consider the Muslim spin doctor to be the most credible source ever, but I don't.  I'm willing to wait and see.  You've already made your mind up.

[DogOnPorch]

3 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I don't think either one has been "firmly established."

He had a couple of mental issues with the police - it could have been nothing more than him casuing a scene in a Walmart.  We don't know because no one is telling us.  So far, it's only a Muslim spin doctor saying he had severe psychosis and the police saying he had a couple of issues with them but no info.

Personally, I find it difficult to believe he had "severe psychosis" and no one else noticed - not his freinds, not his work, not his neighbors.  You might consider the Muslim spin doctor to be the most credible source ever, but I don't.  I'm willing to wait and see.  You've already made your mind up.

 

Folks from Trudeau to dialamah have a vested interest in Islam becoming dominant in Canada so Islam will never be the cause of anything except good things. Mmmmmmm...sure love that cooking.

[GostHacked]

17 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Why is it "improbable" to you that someone stockpiling 42 kilos of a chemical weapon might be planning on using it as a chemical weapon?

Because he was a DRUG dealer??  And you said it yourself, he 'MIGHT' use it, but what can you show me definitively that he was planning an attack? You can't , I know. NEXT.

[Goddess]

Up to this point, the largest seizure of carfentanyl in Canada was 1 kilo.

This guy had 42 kilos.

20 mgs is considered a fatal dose - that's the size of a grain of salt.

It's banned on the battlefield as a chemical weapon.

Here's some info on it, in case some here are still needing to laugh about it being used as a chemical weapon:

https://www.thecipherbrief.com/column_article/opioid-crisis-becomes-national-security-threat

What a hilarious article!!   

 

Edited July 31, 2018 by Goddess

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Goddess said:

Up to this point, the largest seizure of carfentanyl in Canada was 1 kilo.

This guy had 42 kilos.

20 mgs is considered a fatal dose - that's the size of a grain of salt.

It's banned on the battlefield as a chemical weapon.

Here's some info on it, in case some here are still needing to laugh about it being used as a chemical weapon:

https://www.thecipherbrief.com/column_article/opioid-crisis-becomes-national-security-threat

What a hilarious article!! 

 

 

To admit that 42kg of poison could be used to kill Canadians in massive numbers would make Islam look like a monstrous death cult. Not on the menu. Islam is Peace. 

[Goddess]

3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Says one of the folks with a vested interest in Islam being portrayed as peaceful.

The more I read about that amount of carfentanyl, the more I see why it's incredibly important for certain ones to downplay it's importance and label the journalist who pointed out the facts about it as uncredible and fake news.

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Islam is Peace. 

...and love.

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, Goddess said:

The more I read about that amount of carfentanyl, the more I see why it's incredibly important for certain ones to downplay it's importance and label the journalist who pointed out the facts about it as uncredible and fake news.

 

Yup...it's a bit like being caught with VX nerve agent rather than tear gas.