Ford's meeting with Trudeau

[turningrite]

I'm not a big fan of Ford as PC leader although I believe it a good thing the PC party won the recent election. But yesterday I became more a fan upon hearing that Ford pulled no punches with Trudeau on both the carbon pricing issue and the illegal/irregular migrant fiasco. Trudeau looked uncomfortable in a photo taken with Ford that appeared in this morning's Toronto Star, while Ford was smiling and looked relaxed. And one of Ford's ministers was astonishingly and refreshingly blunt in laying the blame entirely on Trudeau and his government for the migrant crisis. Ford likely realizes public opinion is mainly on his side on these matters. With more conservative governments potentially looming in Quebec and Alberta, and with the NDP holding on by its fingernails in B.C., Trudeau could face some huge challenges ahead from the country's most populous and powerful provinces. Sunny ways and colorful socks might not overcome the obstacles in his way. Good.

[Argus]

2 hours ago, turningrite said:

I'm not a big fan of Ford as PC leader although I believe it a good thing the PC party won the recent election. But yesterday I became more a fan upon hearing that Ford pulled no punches with Trudeau on both the carbon pricing issue and the illegal/irregular migrant fiasco. Trudeau looked uncomfortable in a photo taken with Ford that appeared in this morning's Toronto Star, while Ford was smiling and looked relaxed. And one of Ford's ministers was astonishingly and refreshingly blunt in laying the blame entirely on Trudeau and his government for the migrant crisis. Ford likely realizes public opinion is mainly on his side on these matters. With more conservative governments potentially looming in Quebec and Alberta, and with the NDP holding on by its fingernails in B.C., Trudeau could face some huge challenges ahead from the country's most populous and powerful provinces. Sunny ways and colorful socks might not overcome the obstacles in his way. Good.

Most immigrants who came here legally, and went through the long, complicated process, are resentful of these border jumpers. And Canadians born here aren't happy to be played for obvious suckers. The poll which came out recently and showed the federal Conservatives passing the Liberals in popularity suggested immigration was a key reason for the unhappiness with the Liberals. But the Liberals are locked into a progressive mindset where they can hardy even imagine taking any sort of firm steps to halt that migration. Which means the unhappiness of Canadians is going to grow. I expect Ford to continue to take advantage of that and use it against the Liberals.

[turningrite]

21 minutes ago, Argus said:

Most immigrants who came here legally, and went through the long, complicated process, are resentful of these border jumpers. And Canadians born here aren't happy to be played for obvious suckers. The poll which came out recently and showed the federal Conservatives passing the Liberals in popularity suggested immigration was a key reason for the unhappiness with the Liberals. But the Liberals are locked into a progressive mindset where they can hardy even imagine taking any sort of firm steps to halt that migration. Which means the unhappiness of Canadians is going to grow. I expect Ford to continue to take advantage of that and use it against the Liberals.

I suspect you're correct. The bigger question is whether the federal Conservatives will echo the public's discontent in the lead up to and during next's year's election. There has been what amounts to an all-party compact on immigration for the past three decades or so, with only minor policy differences around the edges. To his credit, Harper tried to correct some of the problems with the refugee determination system and reined in some of the benefits refugees were able to able to obtain, although most of this progress has been reversed under Trudeau. I think the federal Libs are starting to realize that immigration and refugee policy could become a massive headache for them going forward but I suspect they're too dug in to change course. The hapless NDP will let them off the hook, but will the federal Conservatives? The big immigrant and refugee receiving provinces, which are now stuck paying the freight, might have to assume the opposition role here.

Edited July 6, 2018 by turningrite

[capricorn]

4 minutes ago, turningrite said:

I think the federal Libs are starting to realize that immigration and refugee policy could become a massive headache for them going forward but I suspect they're too dug in to change course.

Trudeau's popularity numbers must also be thrown in the mix. If he continues to spout out without thinking he'll become a liability to the Party.

[Centerpiece]

42 minutes ago, Argus said:

Most immigrants who came here legally, and went through the long, complicated process, are resentful of these border jumpers. And Canadians born here aren't happy to be played for obvious suckers. The poll which came out recently and showed the federal Conservatives passing the Liberals in popularity suggested immigration was a key reason for the unhappiness with the Liberals. But the Liberals are locked into a progressive mindset where they can hardy even imagine taking any sort of firm steps to halt that migration. Which means the unhappiness of Canadians is going to grow. I expect Ford to continue to take advantage of that and use it against the Liberals.

I agree entirely but I'd suggest you put the word "progressive" in quotes. There's nothing progressive about unending deficits and debt - for which the word has now become a synonym. And there's certainly nothing progressive about taking in 50,000 refugees on a virtuous whim with no plan. The word quite frankly, has been ghoulishly sullied by Kathleen Wynne and Justin Trudeau.

[taxme]

1 hour ago, Centerpiece said:

I agree entirely but I'd suggest you put the word "progressive" in quotes. There's nothing progressive about unending deficits and debt - for which the word has now become a synonym. And there's certainly nothing progressive about taking in 50,000 refugees on a virtuous whim with no plan. The word quite frankly, has been ghoulishly sullied by Kathleen Wynne and Justin Trudeau.

The tax dollars that it will cost the Canadian taxpayer's over the next several years will be immense. One can only imagine as to what and where all those tax dollars, that are being blown every day on legal and illegal refugees today, could have gone too and been better spent on Canada and Canadians instead, and what that would do for Canada and Canadians. The liberals have no respect for the Canadian taxpayer's tax dollars at all. They really do show every day that they having nothing but contempt for the Canadian taxpayer's and their tax dollars. This prime mistake of ours has to go in the next election. Canadians cannot afford this spend crazy fool anymore.  

[taxme]

2 hours ago, capricorn said:

Trudeau's popularity numbers must also be thrown in the mix. If he continues to spout out without thinking he'll become a liability to the Party.

I hope that it is too late for the liberal party now. Let then be gone in the next election. 

[taxme]

2 hours ago, turningrite said:

I suspect you're correct. The bigger question is whether the federal Conservatives will echo the public's discontent in the lead up to and during next's year's election. There has been what amounts to an all-party compact on immigration for the past three decades or so, with only minor policy differences around the edges. To his credit, Harper tried to correct some of the problems with the refugee determination system and reined in some of the benefits refugees were able to able to obtain, although most of this progress has been reversed under Trudeau. I think the federal Libs are starting to realize that immigration and refugee policy could become a massive headache for them going forward but I suspect they're too dug in to change course. The hapless NDP will let them off the hook, but will the federal Conservatives? The big immigrant and refugee receiving provinces, which are now stuck paying the freight, might have to assume the opposition role here.

It worked for Trump. Trump made immigration a topic to be dealt with and the people liked and heard what he said. This has nothing to do with racism or being anti immigrant but more to do with where and how our tax dollars are being spent or blown. It will no doubt cost the Canadian taxpayer's hundreds of millions of tax dollars every year for decades to come that Canadians cannot afford to see blown on all this legal and criminal illegal activity going on. 

It is a crime against Canadians when an illegal refugee or a legal refugee can get eye care and dental care at no cost to them while I have to pay for my glasses and dental care. There is definetly something wrong with this picture. 

[turningrite]

12 minutes ago, taxme said:

It is a crime against Canadians when an illegal refugee or a legal refugee can get eye care and dental care at no cost to them while I have to pay for my glasses and dental care. There is definetly something wrong with this picture. 

As a retiree myself, who's not eligible to obtain these benefits when I turn 65 in the very near future and lose my already limited work benefits, I understand this sentiment. I believe that when he limited refugee health coverage, Harper noted that those covered by the program shouldn't have better taxpayer-funded benefits than are available to most seniors in this country. It's a matter of fairness, after all.

[taxme]

17 minutes ago, turningrite said:

As a retiree myself, who's not eligible to obtain these benefits when I turn 65 in the very near future and lose my already limited work benefits, I understand this sentiment. I believe that when he limited refugee health coverage, Harper noted that those covered by the program shouldn't have better taxpayer-funded benefits than are available to most seniors in this country. It's a matter of fairness, after all.

The liberals do not believe in fairness. But what they do enjoy doing is practicing on how to do another stupid thing today. The next time I go to buy new glasses or have dental work done I am going to send my bill to Trudeau and see what happens. I think that if all Canadians who have to pay for their glasses or pay for teeth work done they should also send their bills to our wonderful prime mistake of Canada and explain to the fool that if you are willing to pay for the legal and illegal refugee bills then why not pay for mine also. It seems only fair. 

[scribblet]

Most people don't object to genuine refugees and regular legal immigration.  This is an insult and affront to all people who come here legally going through the normal process.

[jacee]

4 hours ago, Centerpiece said:

There's nothing progressive about unending deficits and debt - for which the word has now become a synonym. 

A bit of a diversion from the thread topic, but since you're throwing that allegation out there, I'd just like to point out that taking all federal and provincial governments together, NDP governments have the best fiscal record across Canada:

Of the 52 years the NDP has formed governments in Canada since 1980, they’ve run balanced budgets for exactly half of those years and deficits the other half.  This is a better record than both the Conservatives (balanced budgets 37% of years in government) and the Liberals (only 27%), as well as both Social Credit and PQ governments. 

... the size of deficits as a share of GDP.

For this measure as well, NDP governments have the best record.  The average balance (deficit) as a share of provincial GDP for the 52 years of NDP governments in Canada is -0.77%, compared to -1.82% for all Liberal governments and -0.82% for all Conservative governments over the past thirty years.

http://behindthenumbers.ca/2011/04/29/fiscal-record-of-canadian-political-parties-2/

While NDP and Liberal governments may both be considered socially 'progressive', they are fiscal opposites. 

 

[Centerpiece]

1 minute ago, jacee said:

A bit of a diversion from the thread topic, but since you're throwing that allegation out there, I'd just like to point out that taking all federal and provincial governments together, NDP governments have the best fiscal record across Canada:

Of the 52 years the NDP has formed governments in Canada since 1980, they’ve run balanced budgets for exactly half of those years and deficits the other half.  This is a better record than both the Conservatives (balanced budgets 37% of years in government) and the Liberals (only 27%), as well as both Social Credit and PQ governments. 

... the size of deficits as a share of GDP.

For this measure as well, NDP governments have the best record.  The average balance (deficit) as a share of provincial GDP for the 52 years of NDP governments in Canada is -0.77%, compared to -1.82% for all Liberal governments and -0.82% for all Conservative governments over the past thirty years.

http://behindthenumbers.ca/2011/04/29/fiscal-record-of-canadian-political-parties-2/

While NDP and Liberal governments may both be considered socially 'progressive', they are fiscal opposites. 

 

I was talking about the more current iteration of Wynne and Trudeau - who have bastardized the term "progressive". If an NDP government - or any government for that matter - can combine constructive, socially progressive policies with some semblance of fiscal responsibility, they can  lay claim to a Progressive label. Personally, I think it would be more "progressive" if we focused on Healthcare and care for the elderly. Get that right before we make more "grand plans".

[jacee]

2 hours ago, scribblet said:

Most people don't object to genuine refugees and regular legal immigration.  This is an insult and affront to all people who come here legally going through the normal process.

These are people seeking asylum. They are legally entitled to a hearing. Some will be admitted to Canada, and some won't.

We are not accustomed to refugees arriving on foot across our border. However, this is how refugees often arrive to other countries. 

[jacee]

4 hours ago, turningrite said:

As a retiree myself, who's not eligible to obtain these benefits when I turn 65 in the very near future and lose my already limited work benefits, I understand this sentiment. I believe that when he limited refugee health coverage, Harper noted that those covered by the program shouldn't have better taxpayer-funded benefits than are available to most seniors in this country. It's a matter of fairness, after all.

Maybe instead Harper should have improved seniors' benefits! 

Just a thought ... 

[Hal 9000]

4 hours ago, jacee said:

A bit of a diversion from the thread topic, but since you're throwing that allegation out there, I'd just like to point out that taking all federal and provincial governments together, NDP governments have the best fiscal record across Canada:

Of the 52 years the NDP has formed governments in Canada since 1980, they’ve run balanced budgets for exactly half of those years and deficits the other half.  This is a better record than both the Conservatives (balanced budgets 37% of years in government) and the Liberals (only 27%), as well as both Social Credit and PQ governments. 

... the size of deficits as a share of GDP.

For this measure as well, NDP governments have the best record.  The average balance (deficit) as a share of provincial GDP for the 52 years of NDP governments in Canada is -0.77%, compared to -1.82% for all Liberal governments and -0.82% for all Conservative governments over the past thirty years.

http://behindthenumbers.ca/2011/04/29/fiscal-record-of-canadian-political-parties-2/

While NDP and Liberal governments may both be considered socially 'progressive', they are fiscal opposites. 

 

It's all true, just ask Glen Clark!

[capricorn]

Look at that goof on the left. 

[Argus]

To be fair, they're both goofs. Just different kinds of goof.

[capricorn]

At least Ford camouflages his goofiness.

[bush_cheney2004]

Ford is relaxed...open posture.    Trudeau is annoyed...closed posture with that uneasy facial expression.

'Course now, Ford just one an election in a big way, while Trudeau is getting hammered in the polls and could lose next year.

[capricorn]

13 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Ford is relaxed...open posture.    Trudeau is annoyed...closed posture with that uneasy facial expression.

'Course now, Ford just one an election in a big way, while Trudeau is getting hammered in the polls and could lose next year.

Trudeau is annoyed because his pants are too tight. All the more to show off his socks. Either that or he's about to fart.

[BuzzKillington]

Ford is manspreading. Trudy is doing it properly PC with his legs crossed, hands folded, and a sympathetic, almost apologetic look on his stupid face. 

Somebody get the kid a skirt. 

[taxme]

4 hours ago, BuzzKillington said:

Ford is manspreading. Trudy is doing it properly PC with his legs crossed, hands folded, and a sympathetic, almost apologetic look on his stupid face. 

Somebody get the kid a skirt. 

Should we get him a nice hot sexy looking pink colored skirt for him to wear and matching high heel shoes? I will chip in five cents. Nothing to expensive now for Mr. Dress up. 

[taxme]

On 7/7/2018 at 4:59 PM, bush_cheney2004 said:

Ford is relaxed...open posture.    Trudeau is annoyed...closed posture with that uneasy facial expression.

'Course now, Ford just one an election in a big way, while Trudeau is getting hammered in the polls and could lose next year.

It is going to be a dam long year for Canada and Canadians until we get to vote. Will Canada survive with this buffoon running things for another year? The kid can still do a lot of damage in one year. 

[taxme]

On 7/7/2018 at 1:37 PM, Argus said:

To be fair, they're both goofs. Just different kinds of goof.

Who the hell is not a goof of a leader to you? Who do you want to see as the Prime Minister of Canada in the next election, goofy? Hopefully, it is not you.