Canada should renounce democracy

[Zeitgeist]

What checks and balances?  Trump has already said he'll pardon himself from any criminal wrongdoings.  Trump has acted unilaterally on trade and immigration.  Republicans in the House are afraid of opposing him.  Now he has the Supreme Court in his back pocket.  I wonder if he'll pull a Hitler and outlaw all parties except the Republican party.  I know he wants to eliminate the two term limit for presidents -- but only if he wins of course.  Sounds over the top?  All bets are off at this point.

[bush_cheney2004]

11 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

... I wonder if he'll pull a Hitler and outlaw all parties except the Republican party.  I know he wants to eliminate the two term limit for presidents -- but only if he wins of course.  Sounds over the top?  All bets are off at this point.

 

Yes....of course he will.   "Pulling a Hitler" was always in his plan for conquering the world.   Trump will become Emperor of the World, leaving Hitler far behind.

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

I know he wants to eliminate the two term limit for presidents -- but only if he wins of course.

Other presidents have wanted to eliminate the two-term limit as well, if I recall correctly.

Quote

I wonder if he'll pull a Hitler and outlaw all parties except the Republican party. 

Yeah. Let me know if/ when world war 3 breaks out.   

[paxamericana]

9 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

What checks and balances?  Trump has already said he'll pardon himself from any criminal wrongdoings.  Trump has acted unilaterally on trade and immigration.  Republicans in the House are afraid of opposing him.  Now he has the Supreme Court in his back pocket.  I wonder if he'll pull a Hitler and outlaw all parties except the Republican party.  I know he wants to eliminate the two term limit for presidents -- but only if he wins of course.  Sounds over the top?  All bets are off at this point.

You're buying into the smoke and mirror distraction the opposition media has been telling you. Trump is anti-globalist and a economic nationalist. 

[GostHacked]

8 hours ago, paxrom said:

You're buying into the smoke and mirror distraction the opposition media has been telling you. Trump is anti-globalist and a economic nationalist. 

He's gonna have a hard time stocking his hotels with very expensive sub par american made products.

[Michael Hardner]

20 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

He's gonna have a hard time stocking his hotels with very expensive sub par american made products.

He is history's best huckster, and will be remembered as the symbol of the decline.

[Argus]

10 hours ago, paxrom said:

You're buying into the smoke and mirror distraction the opposition media has been telling you. Trump is anti-globalist and a economic nationalist. 

His economic nationalism didn't stop him from producing the goods he sold to Americans in China and Mexico, nor employing illegals on construction sites.  Like his religion and anti-abortion feelings, like his concern for blue collar Americans, and love of guns, none of this seems to have emerged in his long, public life until he ran for office.

Edited July 21, 2018 by Argus

[paxamericana]

2 hours ago, GostHacked said:

expensive sub par american made products.

I don't think so. Don't underestimate american ingenuity. We'll innovate those problems out of existence like we always done. 

[paxamericana]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

He is history's best huckster, and will be remembered as the symbol of the decline.

Oh? Well hate to break it to you but we're only getting started. You're looking at the rise of the new world order. Economic Nationalism is spreading. 

[paxamericana]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

His economic nationalism didn't stop him from producing the goods he sold to Americans in China and Mexico, nor employing illegals on construction sites.  Like his religion and anti-abortion feelings, like his concern for blue collar Americans, and love of guns, none of this seems to have emerged in his long, public life until he ran for office.

That's not true, he's not placing tariff on clothing and other goods for everyone. Not his own. Find me a article that claims he excluded tariff on Trump branded items only? Fake news.

He's doing just fine and the globalist are having a meltdown. I love reading their fake news about trump everyday on Washington Post NYT CNN MSNBC CBS etc..https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/10/business/trump-trade-tariffs.html

[Argus]

1 hour ago, paxrom said:

That's not true, he's not placing tariff on clothing and other goods for everyone. Not his own. Find me a article that claims he excluded tariff on Trump branded items only? Fake news.

He's doing just fine and the globalist are having a meltdown. I love reading their fake news about trump everyday on Washington Post NYT CNN MSNBC CBS etc..https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/10/business/trump-trade-tariffs.html

This sounds exactly like the sort of thing the American troll would post. If you've got nothing more intelligent to say than spew brainless conspiracy shit about 'fake news', and how delighted you are that 'liberals' are upset at Trump's antics I'll just add you to my ignore list, as well. Its full of people who have nothing of substance to contribute.

Edited July 21, 2018 by Argus

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, paxrom said:

Oh? Well hate to break it to you but we're only getting started. You're looking at the rise of the new world order. Economic Nationalism is spreading. 

 

Indeed, but many in Canada don't like that...they want to keep the old world order, with "free trade" access to the largest economy in the world while the U.S. bears most of the military burden as well.    What happens with the American economy matters a lot to Canada, as Canada has no Plan B.

The infighting has already started for the 2019 election, with Mexico moving ahead on a deal without Canada.   Funny, since one year ago it was Trudeau who pledged not to throw Mexico under the bus.    The NAFTA worm has turned.....

[paxamericana]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

This sounds exactly like the sort of thing the American troll would post. If you've got nothing more intelligent to say than spew brainless conspiracy shit about 'fake news', and how delighted you are that 'liberals' are upset at Trump's antics I'll just add you to my ignore list, as well. Its full of people who have nothing of substance to contribute.

Feel free to do what ever you want. Its up to you if you want to get upset by differing views. Doesn't bother me.

The opposition media has been trying to oppose trump's presidency from day one because they are part of the globalist elite apparatus. 

Edited July 21, 2018 by paxrom

[Michael Hardner]

7 hours ago, paxrom said:

Oh? Well hate to break it to you but we're only getting started. You're looking at the rise of the new world order. Economic Nationalism is spreading. 

It's nonsense.  There is no end game here.  The people are being sold on a lie.  Coal jobs ?

[paxamericana]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

There is no end game here.  The people are being sold on a lie.  Coal jobs ?

Not necessary, I have a theory but its based on the first law of thermodynamic and basic economic consumption. I'll have to write a whole research paper on it but essentially it revolves around our financial system, the transfer of energy from one state to another with the end game being infinite consumption of the universe. I swear I'm not on meds. 

I just posted this theory on your forum. 

Anyways, the globalist are having a meltdown because we're winning and spreading, the best they can do is  label us as fascist, look, they're calling us out on CNN, their propaganda apparatus. 

"The rise of populism didn't start with Brexit or Trump. To Trump's ideological mentor, Steve Bannon (and he's not alone), it began with the financial crisis of 2008, the failure of what he calls crony capitalism. In the long slog of recovery, traditional "good-paying jobs" have vanished in the US rust-belt towns that voted heavily for Trump."

"One of the themes of the pro-Brexit campaign was that migrants from eastern Europe were depressing wages and stretching social services. The same dynamic is playing out in Italy, where two populist parties won elections in March."

"On multiple fronts, the international liberal order is being challenged because it has lost the confidence of people who feel left behind and "swamped" by immigration, as former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher put it 40 years ago. Trump, Orban, Salvini, Marine Le Pen of the Mouvement National in France, have become their champions."

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/21/europe/world-returns-to-1930s-intl/index.html

Also the globalist liberal elites are a real thing actually. They are usually the 1 percent in this country. This clip by Dave chapel pretty much confirm it. 

 

Edited July 22, 2018 by paxrom

[Zeitgeist]

The most important thing that countries can do to prevent the rise of this brand of national socialism is to support each other and remind people where it leads (racism, segregation along race and class lines, greed, and so many other inhumane attitudes and tactics).  

Yes the U.S. can use its power to subjugate and dismantle the important institutions that have helped make the world a better place.  It would be loathed in return and countries would seek alliances with more noble players.  In the long run the U.S. would lose hearts and minds and bargaining currency.  It’s already happening, but the downside for the U.S. hasn’t arrived yet.  It will as it did for so many of history’s dirty players, unless the approach changes.  Trump acts like a spoiled selfish baby and the world sees it plain as day.  

Today a child on the street in Paris asked me for money.  He seemed to be a migrant.  I thought of Trump and his anti-immigrant policies. Then I thought of Canada accepting more than half of the White Helmet aide workers as refugees.  I’m very grateful to be Canadian right now and wish the U.S. government would see the bigger picture:  What kind of world do we want to live in and what kind of people do we want to be?  Life is short and you can only occupy one room or car at a time.  It’s about more than greed.  There are other people and future generations to consider.

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

The most important thing that countries can do to prevent the rise of this brand of national socialism is to support each other and remind people where it leads (racism, segregation along race and class lines, greed, and so many other inhumane attitudes and tactics).

This was being pointing out decades ago and the people having it pointed out to them almost universally treated it with little more than an endless string of hearty lol's and various references to Suzuki, Fonda, Mao,  etc. etc.

These people haven't changed their tune once and there's nothing anyone can do about that.   When the dust from the train wreck settles they'll blame Cloony, Oprah, Pol Pot etc etc.  They'll probably still be laughing their silly asses off too.

Edited July 23, 2018 by eyeball

[paxamericana]

5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

The most important thing that countries can do to prevent the rise of this brand of national socialism is to support each other and remind people where it leads (racism, segregation along race and class lines, greed, and so many other inhumane attitudes and tactics).  

Yes the U.S. can use its power to subjugate and dismantle the important institutions that have helped make the world a better place.  It would be loathed in return and countries would seek alliances with more noble players.  In the long run the U.S. would lose hearts and minds and bargaining currency.  It’s already happening, but the downside for the U.S. hasn’t arrived yet.  It will as it did for so many of history’s dirty players, unless the approach changes.  Trump acts like a spoiled selfish baby and the world sees it plain as day.  

Today a child on the street in Paris asked me for money.  He seemed to be a migrant.  I thought of Trump and his anti-immigrant policies. Then I thought of Canada accepting more than half of the White Helmet aide workers as refugees.  I’m very grateful to be Canadian right now and wish the U.S. government would see the bigger picture:  What kind of world do we want to live in and what kind of people do we want to be?  Life is short and you can only occupy one room or car at a time.  It’s about more than greed.  There are other people and future generations to consider.

 A globalist eh? Sorry but that heart felt sorrow for the world doesn't resonate much at home with the deplorable that the global elitist left behind. What happen to taking care of the industrial workers of the Midwest who were left behind by your globalist agenda. Globalism failed to deliver for these people. You know why? Because a global economy with national political system will never work. It encourages regional actors to cheat, trying to get ahead at the expense of their neighbors, look at china, Europe, Russia, all trying to adopt non tariff barriers against america. Selling to us at a cheap rate but making it impossible for us to sell back to them. This isn't even mentioning the warring conflict we face. Again, a global economy with national political system would never work. It only encourages cheating. Look at the UN, NATO, WTO all bunch of cheaters taking advantage of the more liberal countries. So why not globalize a political system for the world you say?

Do you even know what a global political system would look like? Certainly democracy would not be it. We have enough problem electing a president that half of the country is not happy with. Can you imagine this on a global scale and the kind of conflict that would occur? Why should countries be placed under one generic world order. How do you decide which country immigrant refugee get priority when climate change start affecting us 50 years from now. Are we going to move all of southern america to Canada? Would you be okay with strangers coming to your backyard and displacing your local neighborhood with their own unique culture, religion, and various other form of identity? What if those diversity are against your own traditional value, take fundamental Islam for instance. Are you going to start accepting that women are not allowed to go to school and that they should become property to men, adopt sharia law? Is there such a thing as strength in diversity, I thought it was strength in unity? Remember, even America, a proving ground for you globalist with its melting pot can only be as successful  because this melting pot strips all preconceived form of external identity to replace it with a purely unique american cultural identity. Why should I adopt a global identity when my individual identity is unique and deserve just as much value as any other. Would globalism  not lead to further isolation and alienation that many of those who commit suicide feel? These issues are real issue that you globalist seem to forget with your lofty ideals.

We are sick and tired of the promised dream that never delivered. its time we take back our national identity and put our own people first since the rest of the global elite don't care either way as long as their pocket books are filled with profit from hiring cheap international labor and flooding our country with cheap immigrant labor.  

I don't care so much that you dislike trump, he has plenty of folly but he's the only one standing up for us, the deplorable, so get it in your head, it won't end with Trump. This populist movement is already spreading. Brexit was the first sign that you globalist should have paid attention to. Italy, Hungary, France you name it are all starting to form their own nationalist movement. 

We believe in taking care of our own first. Help self before helping others. America is not an empire, we do not need protectorates, we need partners. It's time Canada, Mexico, NATO allies start stepping up. If you globalist want to maintain this alliance then start chipping in your fair share, don't expect America to contribute the greatest blood and treasure.  

Edited July 23, 2018 by paxrom

[Zeitgeist]

Canada doesn't have a melting pot.  It has a cultural mosaic.  People can live more or less as they wish without feeling overwhelming pressure to adapt.  This has its upsides and downsides, but on the most part soft nationalism works very well as a means of preserving the cultures of minorities and maximizing freedom.  Sharia law was rejected in Ontario because of the risks it posed to women and human rights in general.  I'm not sure what you mean by globalist elite.  I think you're referring to some conspiracy theorists' notions of a group of super-rich Rothchilds/Rockefeller and Bilderberg elites who have mapped out how the show should run under a "One World Government."  Here's my take on that: There's no sense in worrying about organizations whose role in global affairs cannot be ascertained.  Worry about what you can influence.  The worst move a citizen can make, especially if you're worried about a "globalist elite" running the show, is to hand over an unnecessarily large about of control or power to one person or group of people.  Trump is a one percenter.  Wake up.  He didn't grow up in the rust belt and he has shown disregard towards anyone who gets in the way of his self-aggrandizement time and time again.  Don't be fooled by his "I'm one of you" line.  He is not.  He also uses dangerous language to discredit longstanding democratic institutions and the press.  "Fake news" sounds a lot like Hitler's lugenpresse (lying press).  Basically, when an item appears in the media that discredits him or with which he disagrees, he simply calls it fake news to make it go away.  He has enough naïve followers who will believe him. 

As far as China and other countries that have picked up some of the rust belt jobs you're talking about go, keep in mind that the biggest job killer for unskilled workers is automation.  That isn't going away.  Companies will always try to boost productivity and reduce costs.  The second issue is workers' wages.  Most Chinese people, including the ones manufacturing your electronics, have a lower standard of living than your average American rust belt worker in cities like Detroit.  That is because Chinese and most other south-east Asian workers are paid much less than American workers.  They should be paid more, which might return some manufacturing jobs to developed countries.  That would also mean that your electronics will have to cost more.  We should have international agreements about minimum wages, but obviously $10.00 or $15.00 an hour looks a lot different in our developed countries than it does in many developing countries.  You need to look at purchasing power parity and compare standard of living.  That's what counts.  As China develops its middle class, it will become a market for the goods it produces and the offshoring of U.S. manufacturing will move to cheaper jurisdictions.  It helps develop poorer countries and it provides the U.S. consumer with cheap goods.  You can't have it both ways.  You want all manufacturing to happen in the U.S.?  Expect the cost of living to soar.  The irony is that it's likely that robots would be taking on those "jobs" that return instead of rust belt workers.  Work itself may start to disappear, as many workers will no longer be needed.  That's why we need to start looking at ideas like a guaranteed basic income.

Lastly, if I'm thinking about building a sustainable economy that works for everyone (reduces global warming, provides upward mobility to the greatest number of people, etc.), why would I trust someone who has pulled out of climate change agreements and who has slashed taxes BY PERCENTAGE OF INCOME, a practice that will make the rich much richer and widen the gap between rich and poor?  Watching average Americans sign up for this approach to governing is like watching a slow-moving train run off a cliff.  Since these decisions have a global impact, we're all on that train. 

[Michael Hardner]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

... a practice that will make the rich much richer and widen the gap between rich and poor?  Watching average Americans sign up for this approach to governing is like watching a slow-moving train run off a cliff.  Since these decisions have a global impact, we're all on that train. 

The downtrodden classes are using up their last hope on the current administration, and as you point out he is not working for them, nor will he be able to.  They will never accept responsibility for their condition to improve themselves and will blame others.  I feel (fear) that the conditions are ripe for mass revolution within a generation or two. 

[bush_cheney2004]

Poor Canada...its fate is tied to an American "train" that it has no control over.

Maybe pick a different train ?

[turningrite]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

The downtrodden classes are using up their last hope on the current administration, and as you point out he is not working for them, nor will he be able to.  They will never accept responsibility for their condition to improve themselves and will blame others.  I feel (fear) that the conditions are ripe for mass revolution within a generation or two. 

It might not take a generation or two. Trump's style of governance is so destabilizing that in order to protect himself and his presidency he may be willing to sacrifice the legitimacy of American democracy. A recent column in the NY Times, 'Trump's Road to American Martial Law', argues that it's not impossible to imagine that Trump would impose martial law to quell the civil unrest that would ensue should he decide to fire Mueller and pardon those indicted as a result of Mueller's probe.

Of course, your post addresses Trump's economic strategy, which may be equally destabilizing, although this will likely take longer to play out. A column by Heather Mallick in today's Toronto Star, 'Trump tariffs are a ticking time bomb for numbed Americans', suggests that the consequences could be dire if imports of cheap goods, which have placated American consumers for the past generation as globalization has ravaged Western economies, are cut off. Her assessment is a bit 'tongue in cheek' in tenor but it's useful to note that respected historians have pointed out that lack of access to seemingly mundane benefits of consumerism, like blue jeans, undermined the legitimacy and stability of the Soviet system. We assume that our economic and social systems are bullet proof but this may be more wishful thinking than we imagine to be the case.

 

[Argus]

9 hours ago, paxamericana said:

 A globalist eh? Sorry but that heart felt sorrow for the world doesn't resonate much at home with the deplorable that the global elitist left behind. What happen to taking care of the industrial workers of the Midwest who were left behind by your globalist agenda. 

And what has Trump done to take care of those people? Zilch. He handed out a temporary tax cut, plus a permanent one to big corporations, and performed a little slight of hand at the same time to lower the taxes of real estate corporations like uhm, his, and then removed the tax on multi-million dollar estates like, uhm his. Midwest industrial workers? I think he forgets about them except when he wants to make a speech in an arena somewhere and get cheers.

The major problems for midwest industrial workers are the advance of technology which has eliminated so many jobs, and the rise of a technologically driven manufacturing and high tech industry which both require more educated workers and thus have gravitated towards the big cities or those with major universities (which is mostly the same thing). What's Trump doing about that? <crickets>

[bush_cheney2004]

3 hours ago, turningrite said:

It might not take a generation or two. Trump's style of governance is so destabilizing that in order to protect himself and his presidency he may be willing to sacrifice the legitimacy of American democracy. A recent column in the NY Times, 'Trump's Road to American Martial Law', argues that it's not impossible to imagine that Trump would impose martial law to quell the civil unrest that would ensue should he decide to fire Mueller and pardon those indicted as a result of Mueller's probe.

 

It's not impossible to imagine a lot of things, but a U.S. president cannot impose martial law without Congress (see Abraham Lincoln), and U.S. courts/due process are not suspended.    Pierre Trudeau imposed martial law in 1970 (October crisis)....all by himself.

[turningrite]

13 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

It's not impossible to imagine a lot of things, but a U.S. president cannot impose martial law without Congress.

Do you actually believe Trump can't or won't have his very own "just watch me" moment? He can get away with whatever Congress lets him get away with. It's becoming increasingly clear that the intended system of checks and balances (a philosophy we've never had in Canada where majority governments are more the norm than the exception) no longer works in a system that's been overtaken by hyperpartisanism. And with enough lapdog Republicans sitting in Congress, I believe Trump probably can impose martial law if he chooses to do so.