China nerves are buckling under trump

[paxamericana]

An article from bloomberg .... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-25/as-trade-war-looms-china-wonders-whether-it-s-up-for-the-fight

 

"Xi Jinping vowed to match Donald Trump blow for blow in any trade war. Now as one gets closer, some in Beijing are starting to openly wonder whether China is ready for the fight -- an unusually direct challenge to the leadership of the world’s second-largest economy.

 

 

In recent weeks, prominent academics have begun to question if China’s slowing, trade-dependent economy can withstand a sustained attack from Trump, which has already started to weigh on stock prices. The sentiments are being expressed in carefully worded essays circulated on China’s heavily censored internet and -- according to interviews in recent days with ministry officials and foreign diplomats who asked not to be identified -- repeated in the halls of government offices, too."

The point is clear, china is not ready for a trade war with the US and they know it. So the question is what will they do next, pull a Trudeau and double down on retaliatory measure or will they concede to fairer practices demanded by the trump administration. 

[betsy]

Some people may not like it, but Trump is doing something good for the world. 

His vision is FAIR TRADE:  no barriers, no subsidies, no tarriffs.   An equal playing field for all.

A healthy competition is good for the consumers.   That will tremendously benefit consumers!   Just seeing supply management gone,  is a win for us Canadian consumers - enough of this price-fixing! 

If as the government rationalizes they have supply management to control waste because of too much milk production  (if milk is  plentiful)  - why on earth are we paying so much for a basic food?  Prices are inflated!

 

If prices of commodities go down, people can stretch their pennies farther, people will be able to afford more, you won't need a wage-hike! 

Anyway, what good is a wage-hike if the prices go up with it???

Edited June 26, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

China has more than 70 million people living in poverty.   No regime is safe with that many people suffering.

[bush_cheney2004]

China doesn't have enough U.S. imports to match Trump's escalating tariffs....which only emphasizes the huge trade imbalance.

China will have to find another way to counter, perhaps by not buying more American treasuries.  

Problem with that is that in times of crisis, there is usually flight to the U.S. dollar.

 

[GostHacked]

On 6/26/2018 at 6:10 AM, betsy said:

China has more than 70 million people living in poverty.   No regime is safe with that many people suffering.

It's lasted this long. And the Chinese people as a group are much much older than most nations that exist today. The USA is in debt to China for a few billion. The USA could not even pay it's loan shark if China decides to send in the hired goons to collect.  Otherwise it can be like how Russia shut the gas taps off heading to Europe. That sure got people's attention. So when China decides they can survive without their cheap American designed products made in China sold in the USA, it means the American companies can still make money even if the products are not sold in the USA. 

Whats the poverty line in most western nations? I think you'd be surprised.   But 70 Million to 1.5 billion? Seems about the same ratio as in many nations.

[paxamericana]

5 hours ago, GostHacked said:

It's lasted this long. And the Chinese people as a group are much much older than most nations that exist today. The USA is in debt to China for a few billion. The USA could not even pay it's loan shark if China decides to send in the hired goons to collect.  Otherwise it can be like how Russia shut the gas taps off heading to Europe. That sure got people's attention. So when China decides they can survive without their cheap American designed products made in China sold in the USA, it means the American companies can still make money even if the products are not sold in the USA. 

Whats the poverty line in most western nations? I think you'd be surprised.   But 70 Million to 1.5 billion? Seems about the same ratio as in many nations.

China's history is an interesting one. This is the first generation that hasn't went through trauma like the boxer rebellion or opium wars , nanjing massacre , communist revolution etc.... So they are really really interested in maintaining internal stability. China fears chaos above all else.  That being said the US debt to China is actually a good thing for them. Helps stabilize their financial system with US treasury backing ie the greenbacks, so to say that they are looking for a collapse of the US would be a huge overstatement.

China is not a consumer economy like the US. They're what you call an export economy so they are more dependent on the US's market for reliable free trade. 

So its not so much we need them as they need us, in fact you all need us actually. 

Also I don't think any of these hired goons will be knocking on America's front door. They don't have the capability to take America head on, nobody does, not now, not ever.  We're the only country capable to fight wars anywhere in the world and on multiple fronts. So if war was to break out lets just say it won't be at our front door. 

Edited June 28, 2018 by paxrom

[marcus]

On 6/26/2018 at 3:10 AM, betsy said:

China has more than 70 million people living in poverty.   No regime is safe with that many people suffering.

The US has over 40 million people living in poverty. China's population is more than three times of United States.

 

Edited June 28, 2018 by marcus

[Hudson Jones]

On 6/26/2018 at 3:10 AM, betsy said:

China has more than 70 million people living in poverty.   No regime is safe with that many people suffering.

Any idea what the number of people in poverty in the U.S. is? It's over 40 million people. Is Trump's regime not safe either?

Edit: I see that Marcus has already mentioned this. My guess is that betsy will deflect and will not respond to this.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Hudson Jones

[betsy]

9 minutes ago, Hudson Jones said:

Any idea what the number of people in poverty in the U.S. is? It's over 40 million people. Is Trump's regime not safe either?

Edit: I see that Marcus has already mentioned this. My guess is that betsy will deflect and will not respond to this.

What is there to respond to?   I should've been more specific -  dictatorial regimes!  Especially those that are made rulers for life! 

Unlike democratic nations, If there is so much discontent  - the only way would be to get rid of the ruler, right?  

Edited June 29, 2018 by betsy

[Hudson Jones]

1 minute ago, betsy said:

What is there to respond to?   I should've been more specific -  dictatorial regimes!

There is more chance of the Chinese regime being safe, than the U.S. They will use their iron fist to squash any resistance.

That said, the U.S. is slowly turning into a banana republic. The middle class is slowly disappearing and the gap continues to grow between the rich and the poor. 

[betsy]

2 minutes ago, Hudson Jones said:

 

That said, the U.S. is slowly turning into a banana republic. The middle class is slowly disappearing and the gap continues to grow between the rich and the poor. 

That sounds like Canada.

[GostHacked]

23 minutes ago, betsy said:

What is there to respond to?   I should've been more specific -  dictatorial regimes!  Especially those that are made rulers for life! 

Unlike democratic nations, If there is so much discontent  - the only way would be to get rid of the ruler, right?  

Interesting that the dictatorial regime has a lower % of those in poverty compared to the USA.

[betsy]

1 hour ago, GostHacked said:

Interesting that the dictatorial regime has a lower % of those in poverty compared to the USA.

Good thing there are more jobs in the US now to help lift some out of it.

[Michael Hardner]

38 minutes ago, betsy said:

Good thing there are more jobs in the US now to help lift some out of it.

  OMG that's funny.  

If you look carefully, the idea of favourable policies for wealthy people 'trickling down' is slowly being taken off the table and replaced with favourable policies for wealthy people as a moral imperative.  When I asked people if the $15 minimum wage would ruin Ontario, for example, no would would commit to that prediction.  The wealthy just deserve more (and more).  

Why do they deserve it ?  Because they have convinced everyone else that they do.

[Bonam]

51 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

  OMG that's funny.  

If you look carefully, the idea of favourable policies for wealthy people 'trickling down' is slowly being taken off the table and replaced with favourable policies for wealthy people as a moral imperative.  When I asked people if the $15 minimum wage would ruin Ontario, for example, no would would commit to that prediction.  The wealthy just deserve more (and more).  

Why do they deserve it ?  Because they have convinced everyone else that they do.

Meh, "poverty" in the US is not being able to afford to afford a 3rd car and a 2nd house, or blowing all your money on unnecessary consumer goods on your credit card and ending up in debt. The amount of people in actual poverty (i.e. can't get access to food/shelter) is far smaller, and they are mostly druggies. 

[Hudson Jones]

2 hours ago, Bonam said:

Meh, "poverty" in the US is not being able to afford to afford a 3rd car and a 2nd house, or blowing all your money on unnecessary consumer goods on your credit card and ending up in debt. The amount of people in actual poverty (i.e. can't get access to food/shelter) is far smaller, and they are mostly druggies. 

What absolute B.S.

Do some research before typing. Stop spreading fake information that occupies your mind.

[Bonam]

11 minutes ago, Hudson Jones said:

Do some research before typing.

Why? No one else in America does. 

[GostHacked]

On 6/29/2018 at 5:35 PM, betsy said:

Good thing there are more jobs in the US now to help lift some out of it.

Where are those jobs? Putting tariffs up do not address the gutting of the American manufacturing sector BY American companies offshoring for cheap labour over the last 20-30 years. If a return to the USA does happen, it's going to be mostly automation as it is too expensive to pay American workers. But if that is the case, then how much more of a % are you willing to pay for a product made in the USA over somewhere else??  When do you cut that off? 10%?  15%? 20%?  You will decide with your dollars, and if you don't have enough for that American product, I have no doubt you'd go with the cheaper item of the same made elsewhere.

And can you show me something that is 100% American made that is globally available?

[cannuck]

The problem with declaring someone in China as belonging to this or that economic strata is that NOBODY reports their earnings and wealth accurately to government.  This may be the first disaster-free generation in a very long time, but memories of the "Great Leap Forward" are unspoken but unforgotten.  Also, many necessities of life are supplied or price controlled by Beijing - don't forget this is still a communist country.

BTW:  this trade war between the US and China opens a HUGE opportunity for Canadian ag exports and FDI.

Edited July 5, 2018 by cannuck

[paxamericana]

On 7/4/2018 at 10:07 PM, cannuck said:

BTW:  this trade war between the US and China opens a HUGE opportunity for Canadian ag exports and FDI.

Would not count on it. The kiwi and ozzy are way ahead of you on that

[cannuck]

21 hours ago, paxrom said:

Would not count on it. The kiwi and ozzy are way ahead of you on that

Yes, they are, but since I am neither, I will make do with my longstanding relationships within China.  We have already been asked to look at several ag opportunities, since we are extremely trusted as food source by most Chinese consumers.