GostHacked Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 7 hours ago, PIK said: The libs should know trump by now and waving the red flag in front of him ,was the wrong thing to do. Justin tried to throw elbow and it cost him. Cost us what? Trump was the one who turfed NAFTA while throwing down sanctions on Canada first. If anything I am impressed with that move by Trudeau. But at least Trump got his play date with Dear Leader that Denis Rodman helped to put together. And if anything Trump would have to look at his own companies to know how many Chinese products it takes to make America great again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, GostHacked said: Cost us what? Trump was the one who turfed NAFTA while throwing down sanctions on Canada first. If anything I am impressed with that move by Trudeau. But at least Trump got his play date with Dear Leader that Denis Rodman helped to put together. And if anything Trump would have to look at his own companies to know how many Chinese products it takes to make America great again. So this is what dystopia looks like. It seems a little more surreal than I expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 26 minutes ago, eyeball said: So this is what dystopia looks like. It seems a little more surreal than I expected. OH not only Chinese products, but illegals from Latin America that seem to make America great. It's how Trump made his fortune. He made a deal of the century, but it was not with the American people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 Another reason why Trump matters more than Trudeau....it is the PM's job to never forget this: Quote ... And every Canadian PM knows U.S. presidents have enormous power to affect Canadians’ lives, even accidentally. They don’t get to forget about that, because it’s a big part of the job. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-what-trump-doesnt-get-about-canadian-politics/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted June 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 19 hours ago, capricorn said: https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/former-pm-mulroney-predicts-trump-rage-at-justin-trudeau-a-passing-storm-1.3969200 Question is, was Trudeau listening to Mulroney's advise. Scaramucci was interviewed on CBC, and he basically said the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted June 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Another reason why Trump matters more than Trudeau....it is the PM's job to never forget this: That's why I hold Trudeau largely responsible for our predicament now. He should've known better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted June 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 (edited) On 6/12/2018 at 4:42 AM, WIP said: better late than never I guess! Back when Trump announced steel and aluminum tariffs on Canada, Doug Trump and others were trying to blame Trudeau's negotiating skills. We should bite the bullet and hit back hard against further US sanctions. Raise the price of oil shipments south back to world market levels...same with essential resources needed for manufacturing. No point hitching our wagons to a dying empire now. Well.....your view of loyalty is different from mine. Don't suggest that I - or anyone who criticize Trudeau for this debacle - is not loyal to Canada. In fact, I'd say we put Canada's interest above all, thus we say what we say! Getting Trudeau to shut up and to zip it, is loyalty to Canada! It's our economy that will suffer. We will all suffer. Doug Ford has no choice. The Opposition party has no choice. They have to stand by the government against this coming trade war. They have to be united in the face of coming disaster. Did it ever occur to Trudeau that this could happen? That he can continuously take catty pot-shots at Trump - especially, someone like Trump - without having to answer for them later on? He did a jaw-dropping pot-shot before graduating students in NY, while his ministers were negotiating on NAFTA, for crying out loud! Not acknowledging the role of the PM who screwed up big-time with his petty drive-by pot shots, and urging him to do more.....is only making matters worse. That isn't loyalty to Canada. It's loyalty to Trudeau. Let's not confuse the two. Edited June 13, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted June 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 (edited) It might just be a "summer squall".....but what pundits and some former leaders (like Jean Charest) are worried about is that......... ...........Trump always do what he'd promised. Edited June 13, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted June 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 (edited) The Feds should open up Supply Management for negotiations. It's not doing us any good anyway. Yesterday with Paul Martin - he really skewered the Agriculture Minister to clarify whether Trump's numbers on dairy tarriff is correct. The Agriculture Minister just kept deflecting the question - he couldn't answer yes or no. So Martin said in frustration - I take it, it means yes. The Agriculture Minister's defense for supply management is that it gives us "high quality" and safe milk. Martin said, I never heard of anyone getting sick drinking American milk! High quality bs. Let the consumers choose! Milk is milk. As for safety - I'd worry more about products coming from China! So don't give us that bs about "safety." From a non-partisan panel guest who understands about supply management, he says that supply management keeps the prices ARTIFICIALLY HIGH for Canadian consumers! That's why we're paying more for this basic food! A lot of Canadians are already counting pennies to make ends meet! Edited June 13, 2018 by betsy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted June 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 Anyway....it's amazing how suddenly, progressives are so willing to buy products from China now. What happened to your crusade against sweat shops? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 1 hour ago, betsy said: The Feds should open up Supply Management for negotiations. It's not doing us any good anyway. At this point, I'm not sure the Feds have enough talent to negotiate anything with regard to trade. They can't even engage Provinces to talk about facilitating free trade across provincial boundaries. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turningrite Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 3 hours ago, betsy said: The Feds should open up Supply Management for negotiations. It's not doing us any good anyway. Yesterday with Paul Martin - he really skewered the Agriculture Minister to clarify whether Trump's numbers on dairy tarriff is correct. The Agriculture Minister just kept deflecting the question - he couldn't answer yes or no. So Martin said in frustration - I take it, it means yes. The Agriculture Minister's defense for supply management is that it gives us "high quality" and safe milk. Martin said, I never heard of anyone getting sick drinking American milk! High quality bs. Let the consumers choose! Milk is milk. As for safety - I'd worry more about products coming from China! So don't give us that bs about "safety." From a non-partisan panel guest who understands about supply management, he says that supply management keeps the prices ARTIFICIALLY HIGH for Canadian consumers! That's why we're paying more for this basic food! A lot of Canadians are already counting pennies to make ends meet! The problem with the American position on supply management is the enormous subsidies paid to support their dairy industry. In Canada, subsidies are directly paid by consumers in the form of artificially higher prices while in the U.S. taxpayers foot the bill. These practices create problems where the concept of "free trade" is concerned as subsidies are more insidiously oblique than are tariffs. That said, if Canada won't even discuss opening up its dairy market we have no chance to discuss with the Americans the issue of their subsidy regime and arrive at a conclusion that either equalizes or neutralizes the impacts of these market skewing policies. The other issue Americans have with Canada where dairy is concerned is regulatory as Canadian dairy products don't contain growth hormones like BGH or BST while U.S. products often do. I'm not sure Canadian consumers want to adopt American standards on this. Surely, however, many American consumers might be enticed by the option of having hormone-free dairy products more available to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted June 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, turningrite said: The problem with the American position on supply management is the enormous subsidies paid to support their dairy industry. Trump was clear in that press conference before he left for Singapore. His aim is to have a trade deal without any barriers....without any tarriffs.....and without any subsidies. That it will be equal. I understood that those are meant for everyone - including the USA. Therefore.....there shouldn't be any subsidies for the USA either. Quote The other issue Americans have with Canada where dairy is concerned is regulatory as Canadian dairy products don't contain growth hormones like BGH or BST while U.S. products often do. I'm not sure Canadian consumers want to adopt American standards on this. Surely, however, many American consumers might be enticed by the option of having hormone-free dairy products more available to them. That's up to the consumers to choose what product they want. The government shouldn't be the one to make decisions for us. Edited June 13, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turningrite Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 24 minutes ago, betsy said: Trump was clear in that press conference before he left for Singapore. His aim is to have a trade deal without any barriers....without any tarriffs.....and without any subsidies. That it will be equal. I understood that those are meant for everyone - including the USA. Therefore.....there shouldn't be any subsidies for the USA either. That's up to the consumers to choose what product they want. The government shouldn't be the one to make decisions for us. Trump would have to get the U.S. Congress to commit to subsidy reductions and the dairy lobby is very powerful in some parts of the U.S., as is the case here. I haven't yet heard him specifically admit to the extent of subsidy protection afforded the American dairy industry. He tends to cite stats that favour his own positions and ignore facts that don't. As for consumers getting the products they want, I tend to agree with you. However, trade negotiators often address regulatory differences under the heading of "non-tariff barriers" to trade. I seriously doubt that Canada's stricter regulatory regime wouldn't be challenged. In an ideal world, Canada could maintain its regulations and offer consumers throughout North America more choice. In the real world, the regulatory situation is unlikely to fly under the radar. Reportedly, Canada had to make concessions on dairy regulations in the TPP negotiations. My guess is that negotiations with the Americans on dairy would be much tougher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 Questions are being raised whether in private talks, Trump and Trudeau agreed there would be no sunset clause on NAFTA. Here's a question in the House from yesterday. Trudeau won't answer the question directly. https://globalnews.ca/video/4269623/trudeau-evasive-on-removal-of-sunset-clause-from-nafta-talks-with-u-s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 55 minutes ago, betsy said: Trump was clear in that press conference before he left for Singapore. His aim is to have a trade deal without any barriers....without any tarriffs.....and without any subsidies. That it will be equal. I understood that those are meant for everyone - including the USA. Therefore.....there shouldn't be any subsidies for the USA either. And Trump never lies. Actually, i doubt Trump is even aware of US agricultural subsidies. He's an amazingly ignorant guy. But in any event he has no power to remove them, and there is no way congress is going to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 5 hours ago, betsy said: That's why I hold Trudeau largely responsible for our predicament now. He should've known better! 100% absolute bullshit. Trump fired the shots first. It is Trump that is putting everyone into this position. Not Trudeau. Trudeau is simply doing the same thing and now the US has their panties in a bunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 4 hours ago, betsy said: Anyway....it's amazing how suddenly, progressives are so willing to buy products from China now. What happened to your crusade against sweat shops? The outsourcing of the late 80s and all through the 90s are a result of an influx of Chinese products. It's US corporations (Like Walmart having their HQ overseas) that offshored manufacturing to countries like China. It's not the willing notion, it's more of that's the only choice you have. Corporations did not want to afford labour in the USA, hence they bailed. Trump uses a lot of Chinese products in his hotels, along whit illegal slave labour from illegal immigrants. I dare you to even try and buy a product that is USA and USA only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 14 hours ago, GostHacked said: Cost us what? Trump was the one who turfed NAFTA while throwing down sanctions on Canada first. If anything I am impressed with that move by Trudeau. But at least Trump got his play date with Dear Leader that Denis Rodman helped to put together. And if anything Trump would have to look at his own companies to know how many Chinese products it takes to make America great again. Being forced to sell our oil at $30 less a barrel to america, because of a handful of nut cases, we are subsidizing #MAGA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted June 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 46 minutes ago, Argus said: And Trump never lies. Yooo-hooooo. We've got our own Pinocchio! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted June 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 (edited) 40 minutes ago, GostHacked said: The outsourcing of the late 80s and all through the 90s are a result of an influx of Chinese products. It's US corporations (Like Walmart having their HQ overseas) that offshored manufacturing to countries like China. It's not the willing notion, it's more of that's the only choice you have. Corporations did not want to afford labour in the USA, hence they bailed. Trump uses a lot of Chinese products in his hotels, along whit illegal slave labour from illegal immigrants. I dare you to even try and buy a product that is USA and USA only. Never mind Trump! I'm asking progressives crusading against sweat shops in China - and who are so critical of Trump - now so willing to buy Chinese products! What happened? Edited June 13, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, betsy said: Yooo-hooooo. We've got our own Pinocchio! Bullshit. There is no politician in the western world who openly and repeatedly lies to anything remotely like the frequency and extent of your hero and serial adulterer Trump. Edited June 13, 2018 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 46 minutes ago, betsy said: Yooo-hooooo. We've got our own Pinocchio! Are you referring to when you said Trudeau made pot-shots against Trump and then had to admit your only evidence of that was when he said Canada is a diverse nation? It would be inaccurate to compare that to Pinocchio, as Pinocchio didn't lie all that often because it made his nose grow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 1 hour ago, PIK said: Being forced to sell our oil at $30 less a barrel to america, because of a handful of nut cases, we are subsidizing #MAGA. The Saudi's have way more control over the oil prices than the USA and Canada combined. It's called price fixing and we have no control over it. OPEC is the entity you need to talk to about the price of oil. Petrodollar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, betsy said: Never mind Trump! I'm asking progressives crusading against sweat shops in China - and who are so critical of Trump - now so willing to buy Chinese products! What happened? Now if he can only take care of the second class US citizens that have been devastated in a place called Puerto Rico. And as I said, you'd be pressed to find stuff NOT made in China. Give me 5 things that are made 100% in the USA and the USA only. Consider it a challenge. Edited June 13, 2018 by GostHacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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