Trump-Trudeau Fall-Out

[betsy]

16 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Now if he can only take care of the second class US citizens that have been devastated in a place called Puerto Rico.  And as I said, you'd be pressed to find stuff NOT made in China.

Give me 5 things that are made 100% in the USA and the USA only.  Consider it a challenge.

  Don't go there, because we do worse.    Here in Canada, it seems like it's Canadians who are treated as the second-class citizens!  We got lots of homeless people - and yet our government are going to spend millions building housing for illegal aliens!

 

Your challenge is irrelevant.  I'm not talking about US goods.  I'm talking about China goods! 

[GostHacked]

1 hour ago, betsy said:

Your challenge is irrelevant.  I'm not talking about US goods.  I'm talking about China goods! 

So why are you complaining about Trudeau here?  And you are all over the place, so most of the time I have no clue what you are talking about.

[betsy]

1 hour ago, GostHacked said:

So why are you complaining about Trudeau here? 

Read the title!

 

 

Quote

so most of the time I have no clue what you are talking about.

You haven't started toking , have you? 

Edited June 13, 2018 by betsy

[BubberMiley]

19 minutes ago, betsy said:

You haven't started toking , have you? 

Obviously not. That's the only way I can make heads or tails of it sometimes.

[GostHacked]

17 hours ago, betsy said:

Read the title!

 

 

You haven't started toking , have you? 

I can toke all day and still be more coherent than you.   But you should be pointing the finger at Trump for imposing those tariffs first.

[betsy]

UH-OH!  

What happened?  Looks like it's another fall-out!   With Italy!

 

 

Quote

 

Italy won't ratify EU free-trade deal with Canada, says new farm minister

 

Italy will not ratify the European Union's free trade agreement with Canada, its new agriculture minister said on Thursday, ratcheting up an international trade spat and potentially scuppering the EU's biggest accord in years.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/italy-ceta-canada-food-1.4705622

 

Boy, when it rains.....it surely pours.

 

Edited June 14, 2018 by betsy

[GostHacked]

14 minutes ago, betsy said:

UH-OH!  

What happened?  Looks like it's another fall-out!   With Italy!

 

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/italy-ceta-canada-food-1.4705622

 

Boy, when it rains.....it surely pours.

 

Interesting so you are ok with Italy pulling this, but not Canada even after the US does it first? 

[Argus]

While I completely agree with Freeland I'm not sure it's a great idea right now to be giving an interview with the New York Times that compares Donald Trump to Adolph Hitler.

In the article, Freeland quotes Hitler boasting of the secret to his rise to power: “Our political problems appeared complicated. The German people could make nothing of them. … I, on the other hand … reduced them to the simplest terms. The masses realized this and followed me.”

Freeland, reported the Times, “leaned forward, a look of concern in her eyes. ‘How do you attract voters and public support compared with the flashiness of exciting, chaotic, fact-ignoring populism?’ she asked. ‘The reason Hitler won was because all of the other politicians were giving complicated and difficult explanations about difficult things. Hitler just told people simple things that they wanted to hear.’ ”

She didn’t specifically identify the U.S. president, but the inference is clear. Trump’s rise relates directly to his success at dismissing complex issues and relations as simple matters he can easily fix. His aggressive nature impresses angry audiences as strength and determination. He encourages a vision of America against the world, of a right-thinking nation surrounded by enemies. So virulent is the danger, apparently, that even Canada can be presented as a threat.

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/kelly-mcparland-trump-likely-doesnt-realize-the-dark-path-hes-taking-his-country-down

[Argus]

25 minutes ago, betsy said:

UH-OH!  

What happened?  Looks like it's another fall-out!   With Italy!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/italy-ceta-canada-food-1.4705622

Boy, when it rains.....it surely pours.

You really hate Canada, don't you? Your glee whenever anyone seems to be attacking us is palpable.

As to Italy, this likely has little to do with Canada, but more to do with Italy seeking to extort something out of the EU, and using this treaty as a handy lever.

[turningrite]

Italy has a new populist government. It's not surprising that it's going to defend the interests of its workers and farmers. A new paradigm seems to be emerging in much of the West in opposition to the impacts of globalization. Will leaders like Trudeau, who's beholden to what for many is a failed economic model, be able to bridge the gap merely by inserting words like "progressive" into these investor-focused deals? Trump is correct that we need fair trade in the world economy, which is not where globalization has led. I doubt that Trudeau really understands what fair trade means or entails. Trudeau should be looking for commonality with other Western countries, including the U.S., rather than simply lashing out about unfair tariffs and the like. The whole structure is unfair and, as it turns out, might turn out to be little more than a house of cards. My (now late) father warned of this in the 1980s when the great "free trade" debate was in play. He said that in a "free trade" environment it would only take one contrarian American leader to lay waste to the fragile system the Mulroney government was promoting. He believed the FTA (and its late iteration, the NAFTA) would not provide permanent unfettered access to the American market. And he was a businessman. Hmmm....

Edited June 14, 2018 by turningrite

[GostHacked]

21 minutes ago, Argus said:

You really hate Canada, don't you? Your glee whenever anyone seems to be attacking us is palpable.

As to Italy, this likely has little to do with Canada, but more to do with Italy seeking to extort something out of the EU, and using this treaty as a handy lever.

That is more like it.  Not sure what trade agreements we have with Italy directly, but it would be with the EU which may include Italy.

[betsy]

4 hours ago, Argus said:

You really hate Canada, don't you? Your glee whenever anyone seems to be attacking us is palpable.

As to Italy, this likely has little to do with Canada, but more to do with Italy seeking to extort something out of the EU, and using this treaty as a handy lever.

Wrong again.  I don't hate Canada.   I'm angry at the ones  sinking Canada. 

We don't need outside interference like Trump -  to realize we're in trouble!  You, yourself, have been on about your anger for the leaders running this country even before Trump came into the picture!  Since Trudeau won!   How many Liberal attack threads have you posted???

 

Don't you get who's negotiating for Canada?  Was it Trump who negotiated for Canada with Italy?

 

Like you, I'm angry......for Canada.

 

But unlike you........ I don't get side-tracked easily.

Edited June 14, 2018 by betsy

[Argus]

43 minutes ago, betsy said:

Wrong again.  I don't hate Canada.   I'm angry at the ones  sinking Canada. 

And you've allowed that hate to influence your feelings about attacks on Canada. Anything you think makes Trudeau look bad you delight in, even if it hurts Canada.

That's dumb, short-term thinking.

[betsy]

11 minutes ago, Argus said:

And you've allowed that hate to influence your feelings about attacks on Canada. Anything you think makes Trudeau look bad you delight in, even if it hurts Canada.

That's dumb, short-term thinking.

 

Now, now, now.........don't make this personal.

 

I may have my own way of expressing myself - and yes, I don't like Trudeau.   You're not getting it:  I blame Trudeau for most of the problems we have now.   

Not dumb.  Unlike you, I'm not persuaded by emotions when it comes to this.  I'm looking at the bigger picture.  

Look at all his decisions!   How much more damage would Trudeau cause  Canada (you know they're eye-balling the CPP to invest in that leaky pipeline, don't you?)  You want him gone same way that I do.    

 

I'm looking at the bright side of this dark episode.  Sometimes.....it takes pain to make gain.

 

Edited June 14, 2018 by betsy

[bush_cheney2004]

5 hours ago, turningrite said:

.... The whole structure is unfair and, as it turns out, might turn out to be little more than a house of cards. My (now late) father warned of this in the 1980s when the great "free trade" debate was in play. He said that in a "free trade" environment it would only take one contrarian American leader to lay waste to the fragile system the Mulroney government was promoting. He believed the FTA (and its late iteration, the NAFTA) would not provide permanent unfettered access to the American market. And he was a businessman. Hmmm....

 

Yes...many Canadians warned that the FTA and NAFTA would lead to exactly what has transpired....foreign (American ownership of Canadian economic base), more dependence on exports to a single nation, more political influence from foreign nations, more dependence on foreign direct investment, "harmonizing" of environmental regulation for consumer/industrial products, and American capture of bitumen exports at a large discount.

Author Maude Barlow has been screaming about this for years, as have many other Canadian authors/pundits....all ignored.

The Liberals hated FTA/NAFTA....but now the LOVE it ?

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, betsy said:

I may have my own way of expressing myself - and yes, I don't like Trudeau.   You're not getting it:  I blame Trudeau for most of the problems we have now.   

I'm looking at the bigger picture.   How much more damage would Trudeau cause on Canada (you know they're eye-balling the CPP to invest in that leaky pipeline, don't you?)  You want him gone same way that I do.   I'm looking at the bright side of this dark episode.

 

Indeed...it really is pathetic when people hold Donald Trump more responsible for what happens in Canada than their own prime minister.

Trump did not give Justin Trudeau a majority government (and all that entails) in Canada.

[turningrite]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Yes...many Canadians warned that the FTA and NAFTA would lead to exactly what has transpired....foreign (American ownership of Canadian economic base), more dependence on exports to a single nation, more political influence from foreign nations, more dependence on foreign direct investment, "harmonizing" of environmental regulation for consumer/industrial products, and American capture of bitumen exports at a large discount.

Author Maude Barlow has been screaming about this for years, as have many other Canadian authors/pundits....all ignored.

The Liberals hated FTA/NAFTA....but now the LOVE it ?

You're correct. I very clearly recall the free trade debate of the 1980s. There were warnings back then that completely integrating the Canadian economy into the American one could lead us into a very difficult situation were the Americans to change course and adopt an isolationist economic policy, as is now happening under Trump. Of course, the Americans have the right to set their own economic policies and with a much smaller economy we have few choices but to accept the consequences. American politicians aren't elected to worry about Canadian interests, after all. It may be that the Libs have no choice here. Metaphorically speaking, we chose our course long ago and we either have to stick with it or sail into uncharted waters. But whatever direction we now choose, we're left without lifeboats or even life jackets if we sail into a tempest. The warnings were sounded, and largely ignored, long ago. 

[betsy]

16 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Indeed...it really is pathetic when people hold Donald Trump more responsible for what happens in Canada than their own prime minister.

Trump did not give Justin Trudeau a majority government (and all that entails) in Canada.

 

Furthermore, we behave like those kind of parents who rush to the defense of their spoiled rotten child!  The Harriet Olsons  to their "Nellie" of Canada (little House on The Prairie).

Trudeau was the one who started taking pot-shots at Trump.  So now, Trump is calling him names - oh boy.   So what happens?  We get in a snit over that!  Argus even comes out swinging!    

Edited June 14, 2018 by betsy

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, turningrite said:

... American politicians aren't elected to worry about Canadian interests, after all. It may be that the Libs have no choice here. Metaphorically speaking, we chose our course long ago and we either have to stick with it or sail into uncharted waters. But whatever direction we now choose, we're left without lifeboats or even life jackets if we sail into a tempest. The warnings were sounded, and largely ignored, long ago. 

 

Agreed...but it gets worse.   I have one of Maude Barlow's books "Too Close for Comfort (2005)", where she not only repeats the horrendous Canadian policy mistake that was FTA/NAFTA, but now Canada is further dominated and influenced by post 9/11 America's "fortress", and all the security apparatus that entails.

The warnings were loudly communicated...and ignored.

[GostHacked]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Indeed...it really is pathetic when people hold Donald Trump more responsible for what happens in Canada than their own prime minister.

Trump did not give Justin Trudeau a majority government (and all that entails) in Canada.

Right, because when Canada's biggest trading partner imposes sanctions and tarrifs on Canada it has NO effect what so ever.

[Kerfuffle]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Yes...many Canadians warned that the FTA and NAFTA would lead to exactly what has transpired....foreign (American ownership of Canadian economic base), more dependence on exports to a single nation, more political influence from foreign nations, more dependence on foreign direct investment, "harmonizing" of environmental regulation for consumer/industrial products, and American capture of bitumen exports at a large discount.

Author Maude Barlow has been screaming about this for years, as have many other Canadian authors/pundits....all ignored.

The Liberals hated FTA/NAFTA....but now the LOVE it ?

Kinda like USA hated North Korea but loves it now.......winds of chamge

[Argus]

2 hours ago, betsy said:

Trudeau was the one who started taking pot-shots at Trump.  So now, Trump is calling him names - oh boy.   So what happens?  We get in a snit over that!  Argus even comes out swinging!    

And yet you still cannot name these 'pot shots'.

[Kerfuffle]

3 hours ago, betsy said:

 

Now, now, now.........don't make this personal.

 

I may have my own way of expressing myself - and yes, I don't like Trudeau.   You're not getting it:  I blame Trudeau for most of the problems we have now.   

Not dumb.  Unlike you, I'm not persuaded by emotions when it comes to this.  I'm looking at the bigger picture.  

Look at all his decisions!   How much more damage would Trudeau cause  Canada (you know they're eye-balling the CPP to invest in that leaky pipeline, don't you?)  You want him gone same way that I do.    

 

I'm looking at the bright side of this dark episode.  Sometimes.....it takes pain to make gain.

 

Now now now....remember Betsy.....you can always ask God for help.....poof all is better

[Argus]

3 hours ago, betsy said:

Now, now, now.........don't make this personal.

I'm not. I'm saying its dumb thinking, not that you are dumb.

3 hours ago, betsy said:

  You're not getting it:  I blame Trudeau for most of the problems we have now.   

Because you cannot blame Trump, for you're a member of his cult. Oh, I freely acknowledge the Liberals brought a lot of stupid baggage to the negotiations, like gender equity and climate change, which were clearly not going to fly. I suspect, however, they were brought in to be 'reluctantly' negotiated away. The Trump demands, like a five year sunset clause, and an all-American arbitration system, were clearly stupid, and no foreign government would agree to those.

And while you're feeling gleeful about this you might want to pause and consider it is almost certain to improve Trudeau's popularity. Possibly by quite a bit.

[Kerfuffle]

3 hours ago, betsy said:

 

Now, now, now.........don't make this personal.

 

I may have my own way of expressing myself - and yes, I don't like Trudeau.   You're not getting it:  I blame Trudeau for most of the problems we have now.   

Not dumb.  Unlike you, I'm not persuaded by emotions when it comes to this.  I'm looking at the bigger picture.  

Look at all his decisions!   How much more damage would Trudeau cause  Canada (you know they're eye-balling the CPP to invest in that leaky pipeline, don't you?)  You want him gone same way that I do.    

 

I'm looking at the bright side of this dark episode.  Sometimes.....it takes pain to make gain.

 

The U.S. government uses the money it has borrowed from Social Security – just as it uses money you may have invested in savings bonds – to pay for all the services and projects it provides