Trump-Trudeau Fall-Out

[turningrite]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Trudeau is an economic failure not because of Trump's tariffs, but because of other policies that will burden and limit Canada's economy far more.

I agree with you on this. We have to strip down the both the personal and corporate subsidies that burden the federal budget. Redistributive policies and corporate welfare have largely been failed market-distorting efforts. Then we have to work on implementing a rational taxation system based on a philosophy of permitting taxation only when and to the extent necessary.

[GostHacked]

22 hours ago, Argus said:

This is a part of the equation we don't talk about enough when discussing trade and Trump. Trump has a lot of support from his base, from middle America, for his anti-Trade rhetoric. Partly that's because they still think trade is what took their jobs away (mostly it was technology) and partly it's because those manufacturing jobs which were once the life blood of middle America haven't been replaced.

Not just technology, but more of cheaper labour in other markets, like China, Indonesia, Bangladesh India, ect ect.  That's how American corporations increased their bottom line. They moved everything out of the USA except for the retail sector.

[Michael Hardner]

44 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Not just technology, but more of cheaper labour in other markets, like China, Indonesia, Bangladesh India, ect ect.  That's how American corporations increased their bottom line. They moved everything out of the USA except for the retail sector.

Not disagreeing, but to point out that economic theory says currency rates will close differences such as this.  Discussion of that is for another thread, if you disagree.  I have no expertise on it myself.

[Argus]

3 hours ago, GostHacked said:

Not just technology, but more of cheaper labour in other markets, like China, Indonesia, Bangladesh India, ect ect.  That's how American corporations increased their bottom line. They moved everything out of the USA except for the retail sector.

This is simply false. In fact, manufacturing is at record levels in the US and has been for some time.  But an auto factory or steel mill which employed thousands now only needs hundreds. This is from a year ago. It reports that manufacturing jobs have eroded even as production grew, and new manufacturing jobs have shifted to the bigger cities, and away from middle America.

We are, right now, at the peak of industrial production in the United States. By every measure of production, we are at record levels. The industrial production index peaked in December 2007, then dropped by roughly 15% by the summer of 2009. It took five years to recover to a second peak in 2015. As the world economy dipped in 2015 and 2016, so too did U.S. industrial production. We are back at a record level of industrial output. It’s worth noting that total U.S. industrial production is more than twice what it was back in 1979, when employment peaked. And yes, of course, that is adjusted for inflation.

http://www.industryweek.com/economy/manufacturing-growth-and-transition

Edited June 18, 2018 by Argus

[taxme]

20 hours ago, Signals.Cpl said:

So true, it is all Trudeau's fault...the tariffs on Mexico, China, Japan, European Union... its all Trudeau's fault. I don't like the guy, his policies or his party but there is a line to how much blame I can heap on him for things outside of his control. There is a dark period of time coming for the US and unfortunately we are tied to them as Canadians. When everyone's household expenses balloon by 20-50% due to tariffs and when businesses start closing down because they cannot compete with the exports of other countries the US will be up for a rude awakening but they are the once that elected an individual with zero decency, common-sense or integrity. Hopefully the American people will elect some competent adults in the next election to babysit the spoiled brat in the White House.

We the people must try and work together to try and get government off we the people's backs. If tariffs were eliminated altogether and trade deals were left up to the private sector and the ordinary free market business people themselves and allow them to take control of the wheeling and dealing in the market place there would be no problems at all. It is our politicians big corporations and banksters who create just about all of the problems for we the people. We need to be free from those people who are making and creating our problems. Wake up. 

What silly and foolish talk. It was not Trump that has caused this tariff fiasco. These tariffs have been around for decades long before Trump ever became President. It was our Canadian politicians that have locked Canada into these tariffs just like Clinton and Obama kept America locked up in these tariffs also. It had nothing to do with Trump being the President now, child. But that is all people like you want to do these days is blame everything that is happening in the world today on Trump. It's like Trump started all this tariff nonsense decades ago. Businesses will close down alright if we keep allowing our stunned and stupid puppet on a string political leaders to keep running and ruining the show. Why doesn't anyone ever see and acknowledge this? 

Hillary is well known for her foul mouth and many of those so-called American liberal comedians who have all shown us just how much indecency and foul talk that they like to spew from their sick pathetic liberal mouths. Trump shows common sense and logic unlike liberals like yourself who appears to only know as to how to do and say the opposite of Trump.

Hopefully the American people will vote Trump back in power in the next election because what Americans do not need anymore is to have for a President a lying and crooked pathetic liberal loser like Hillary running America. We all have seen what liberal/democrat Obama has done to America since he was president for eight years? Absolutely nothing at all except to have allowed as many MS 13 gang members and millions of illegals into America as possible. It is the liberal/democrats that still need the baby sitting. All they have done since Trump became President was whine and cry just like the bunch of crybabies that they are. Maybe what Trump should do is go out and buy a few hundred thousand soothers and start handing them out to the crybaby liberal/democrat losers. Works for me. LOL. 

Edited June 18, 2018 by taxme

[taxme]

On 6/16/2018 at 4:20 PM, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Then why have Canadian businesses and politicians asked for internal policy changes to respond to Trump/Congress tax cuts, undermining Canada's competitiveness ?   Canadian oil rigs are leaving Canada at a faster pace than before.

 

Trudeau was first to personally attack Trump and Americans (60 Minutes interview)....before Trump became president.

Trump was attacked viciously in Canadian media for two years.    Canada likes to dish it out....but can't take it in return ?

 

 

Trump says a lot of things to disturb the status quo.   His very existence as POTUS proves that it is a successful strategy for him.

Sometimes all one can say is that most Canadians appear to lack any kind of common sense or logic. Matter of fact did they ever have that much common sense and logic to begin with in the first place? I mean after all anyone who would vote in another Trudeau after what the first Trudeau did to Canada really has to have something wrong with their judgement and how they think.

Canada's problems has nothing to do with Trump. It has everything to do with our dear leader politicians who appear to have no clue as to how to run a country in a right and proper manner. Our prime mistake needs to take many lessons from Trump who knows what it takes to run a country in a business like manner and who is only working on trying to make America great again and that is exactly what Trump is doing. What Canada needs is some Trump like politician to come forward who wants to make Canada great again and run Canada like a business and not like a big liberal/ socialist government/bureaucracy country. Trudeau never will. All Trudeau is showing us is to how to go about trying to destroy a great nation and make it worthless. Look at our Canadian dollar today and our gas prices compared to the American dollar and gas prices to see that Canada is not being run right. It is deplorable. 

 

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, taxme said:

Sometimes all one can say is that most Canadians appear to lack any kind of common sense or logic.

 

I agree....it is not logical that many Canadians, their leaders, and media relentlessly "insulted" Donald Trump (a political candidate and elected president in another nation), only to be shocked that Trump may return the favour in word and deed for their prime minister.  They like to dish it out, but can't take it in return.

Methinks they protest too much.

[taxme]

17 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

I agree....it is not logical that many Canadians, their leaders, and media relentlessly "insulted" Donald Trump (a political candidate and elected president in another nation), only to be shocked that Trump may return the favour in word and deed for their prime minister.  They like to dish it out, but can't take it in return.

Methinks they protest too much.

It's too bad that most Canadians don't bash themselves or their dear leaders more often. Gawd only knows they need too. Trump has not done anything to Canadians but one would think that Trump is the reason why they have problems and Trump must be blamed. Too much listening to the liberal lying MSM I guess. Canadians appear to find it very hard to want to bash themselves and their dear leaders over their probable inferior short comings and so prefer to attack and mock another leader(Trump)of another country. Could it be because they are jealous that you have Trump and they have Trudeau? I am. 

Indeed many Canadians protest too much and most of it is all for nothing. Most probably many don't even know why they are protesting in the first place. Oh, they say, the media said this about that and so I must protest over that. Most don't even bother to check into why they are demonstrating. I watch some Americans protesting over some issue on TV and when confronted and asked as to what are they protesting about they just stand there and don't appear to know why and some of them looking rather stunned over the question. It's dam sad when people can get worked up and protest over something or nothing and they don't even really know as to what they are protesting about. 

A joke going around is that Canadians get all excited when an American TV show mentions Canada. A big smile comes up on their Canadian faces. LOL.

[Michael Hardner]

8 minutes ago, taxme said:

It's too bad that most Canadians don't bash themselves or their dear leaders more often. Gawd only knows they need too. 

Such loyalty.  I thought your Loyalty belongs to Canada ?

Quote

"My loyalty belongs to Canada"

 

Can I ask you for a cite on your loyalty ?
https://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/search/?&q=loyalty&author=taxme&search_and_or=or

[GostHacked]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

This is simply false. In fact, manufacturing is at record levels in the US and has been for some time.  But an auto factory or steel mill which employed thousands now only needs hundreds. This is from a year ago. It reports that manufacturing jobs have eroded even as production grew, and new manufacturing jobs have shifted to the bigger cities, and away from middle America.

We are, right now, at the peak of industrial production in the United States. By every measure of production, we are at record levels. The industrial production index peaked in December 2007, then dropped by roughly 15% by the summer of 2009. It took five years to recover to a second peak in 2015. As the world economy dipped in 2015 and 2016, so too did U.S. industrial production. We are back at a record level of industrial output. It’s worth noting that total U.S. industrial production is more than twice what it was back in 1979, when employment peaked. And yes, of course, that is adjusted for inflation.

http://www.industryweek.com/economy/manufacturing-growth-and-transition

Then where are the American products? All I see on the shelves are cheap Chinese products from Walmart. And that data seems to start in the early 2000's but fails to deliver any facts on how much outsourcing happened during the 1980s and 1990s. So hard to compare when those numbers are missing.

 

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Not disagreeing, but to point out that economic theory says currency rates will close differences such as this.  Discussion of that is for another thread, if you disagree.  I have no expertise on it myself.

It's fact that US corps outsourced labour to cheaper markets. And yes Argus is right for some of the automation, but it's not the sole reason, or the biggest one. Cheaper labour markets in Asia and elsewhere was the driving factor.  Hence the decline of the American manufacturing sector.  Detroit got hit hard when outsourcing to Canada and Mexico, and when that got to expensive, they started shifting it elsewhere.

[GostHacked]

However I am guessing the infrastructure to have an automated manufacturing facility, is probably equipped with robots and tech from overseas.

[AngusThermopyle]

29 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Such loyalty.  I thought your Loyalty belongs to Canada ?

Can I ask you for a cite on your loyalty ?
https://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/search/?&q=loyalty&author=taxme&search_and_or=or

So you believe that if a Canadian criticizes a Canadian political leader or a policy of their country they are not a loyal Canadian? No need for that pesky democracy or freedom of speech. How very totalitarian of you comrade.

[taxme]

28 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Such loyalty.  I thought your Loyalty belongs to Canada ?

Can I ask you for a cite on your loyalty ?
https://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/search/?&q=loyalty&author=taxme&search_and_or=or

My loyalty to Canada will return when that prime mistake of ours is gone in the next election. That guy has given me plenty of good reasons as to why I should bother being all that loyal to Canada anymore. Can you give me any good reasons as to why I should be all that loyal to Canada these days? Just asking. 

There are many conservative websites that I like to frequent and many of them end up making me get all upset and depressed because of what they are reporting about what this prime mistake is doing to Canada. I have mentioned many websites already that are and show loyalty to Canada. The Right Edition is one of them that I am loyal too.  

 

[taxme]

10 minutes ago, AngusThermopyle said:

So you believe that if a Canadian criticizes a Canadian political leader or a policy of their country they are not a loyal Canadian? No need for that pesky democracy or freedom of speech. How very totalitarian of you comrade.

I await for MH and his reply. Will he?  

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, taxme said:

I await for MH and his reply. Will he?  

 

Indeed...I suspect he will respond that it was just an equivalency play, not a steadfast position on dissent in Canada.  

[Michael Hardner]

15 minutes ago, AngusThermopyle said:

So you believe that if a Canadian criticizes a Canadian political leader or a policy of their country they are not a loyal Canadian? No need for that pesky democracy or freedom of speech. How very totalitarian of you comrade.

Pfft.  Once Great Leader Trump says Canada is shit then you all fall into lockstep.  Don't be such a snowflake I am only asking questions.  People are free to criticize, but I find it odd when a "loyal" Canadian (who prides himself on his patriotism too) just blanket insults Canadians.  I guess we know where the loyalty goes now...

[bush_cheney2004]

Canadians should be free to "insult" Justin Trudeau or agree with "insults" levied at Trudeau without their "patriotism" being questioned, regardless of what Trump says.

Justin Trudeau was a putz long before Trump's remarks, and called as much in Canadian media.

So now Trudeau is a hero ?

Edited June 18, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[Argus]

1 hour ago, GostHacked said:

Then where are the American products? All I see on the shelves are cheap Chinese products from Walmart. And that data seems to start in the early 2000's but fails to deliver any facts on how much outsourcing happened during the 1980s and 1990s. So hard to compare when those numbers are missing.

It stated 1979 as the previous peak of manufacturing, and they're now at twice that level. I presume they're no longer making cheap, consumer products, but are more focused on industrial , aerospace, automotive, technology, etc. And it was clear that the new manufacturing is not going to the small urban and rural areas but the big cities. That helps account for why those areas are still economically depressed. Plus the new manufacturing is not as labour intensive but requires skills that need post-secondary education. 

1 hour ago, GostHacked said:

 Cheaper labour markets in Asia and elsewhere was the driving factor.  Hence the decline of the American manufacturing sector.  Detroit got hit hard when outsourcing to Canada and Mexico, and when that got to expensive, they started shifting it elsewhere.

Except the manufacturing sector has not declined. Only the number of jobs in in it has. The biggest decline in jobs happened after 2001. On the other hand, the tech sector continues to grow in both total production/dollars and employment.

[Michael Hardner]

3 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Canadians should be free to "insult" Justin Trudeau or agree with "insults" levied at Trudeau without their "patriotism" being questioned, regardless of what Trump says.

I would call you a patriot, or maybe a nationalist and I can't conceive of you making insults against your own country.  Really, this does relate to the thread because we are at the point of etymological crisis.  We have a Tower of Babylon situation upon us where subcultures are forming, and moving away from each other at inconceivable speed.  Trudeau should be Trump's hand puppet but instead he's somehow the Great Satan to Trump's Saddam.

If you can make sense of this, then more power to you.  

[bush_cheney2004]

22 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I would call you a patriot, or maybe a nationalist and I can't conceive of you making insults against your own country.  Really, this does relate to the thread because we are at the point of etymological crisis.  We have a Tower of Babylon situation upon us where subcultures are forming, and moving away from each other at inconceivable speed.  Trudeau should be Trump's hand puppet but instead he's somehow the Great Satan to Trump's Saddam.

 

Nonsense....such dramatic effect is not necessary.   Of course I have made "insults" against my own country....no big deal.

They are called subcultures for a reason, and the separation in neither unprecedented or remarkable.   The universe requires entropy or it wouldn't exist.

 

Quote

If you can make sense of this, then more power to you.  

 

OK...so is this like when President Nixon called PM Pierre Trudeau an "asshole" ?   Trudeau replied that he had been called worse things by better people.

It is/was not the end of the world.

 

Quote

Nixon, Kissinger, and Laird continued discussing Strategic Arms Limitation Talks and European positions on force reduction negotiations. The conversation turned to a separate May 1971 discussion between the United States’ Ambassador to Czechoslovakia Jacob Beam and Soviet Minister of Foreign Affairs Andrei Gromyko. In that portion of the exchange between Nixon, Laird, and Kissinger, Nixon referenced a statement involving Kosygin and Trudeau in 1971:

Nixon: —No, no. I am talking about after the announcement on SALT tomorrow.
Kissinger: Oh.
Nixon: Now anything is possible with the Russians, get my point?
Kissinger: The Russians, I don’t read the Gromyko thing as if they’re ready to negotiate.
Nixon: The Kosygin?
Kissinger: The Gromyko–Beam conversation.
Nixon: Well—
Kissinger: So, let, all they’re left at is let’s both review our positions.
Nixon: Well, Kosygin made some statement with—
Kissinger: —Well—
Nixon: —that asshole Trudeau.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did-trudeau-say-worse-things-better-men/

 

President Nixon resigned in 1974 (Watergate)....President Trump would make a TV show instead.

Edited June 19, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[AngusThermopyle]

21 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Pfft.  Once Great Leader Trump says Canada is shit then you all fall into lockstep.  Don't be such a snowflake I am only asking questions.  People are free to criticize, but I find it odd when a "loyal" Canadian (who prides himself on his patriotism too) just blanket insults Canadians.  I guess we know where the loyalty goes now...

What does my question have to do with Trump? It's a very straight forward question. Have you been drinking, or are you simply refining the art of stupid to new levels?

If you are questioning my patriotism then I suggest you shut up, get off your ass and march on down to the nearest recruiting center. There you can sign up and devote two decades or more of your life to your country. When you do that I'll listen to anything you have to say about patriotism. Until then all you're doing is spouting off so much hot air.

Edited June 19, 2018 by AngusThermopyle

[dialamah]

5 minutes ago, AngusThermopyle said:

What does my question have to do with Trump? It's a very straight forward question. Have you been drinking, or are you simply refining the art of stupid to new levels?

If you are questioning my patriotism then I suggest you shut up, get off your ass and march on down to the nearest recruiting center. There you can sign up and devote two decades or more of your life to your country. When you do that I'll listen to anything you have to say about patriotism. Until then all you're doing is spouting off so much hot air.

I suppose your post implies that your patriotism cannot be question because you 'served' in the military.  Being a soldier doesn't make you above criticism.

And yeah, I absolutely question the patriotism of people who support Trump and his fascist BS - hiring family, firing anyone who disagrees with him, sending lies by Twitter, attacking the press and his allies, cozying up to dictators - while they simultaneously criticize Trudeau for his hair or his teaching career or saying anything remotely nice about China and Fidel Castro.   These folks accept any degree of corruption from Trump, and act like the world is coming to an end if Trudeau says "Peoplekind", and expect him to bend over and spread his ass-cheeks for Trump and on behalf of Canada.   I don't know if this describes you, but you certainly seem pro-Trump and anti-Trudeau so ... 

 

 

[GostHacked]

22 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Pfft.  Once Great Leader Trump says Canada is shit then you all fall into lockstep.  Don't be such a snowflake I am only asking questions.  People are free to criticize, but I find it odd when a "loyal" Canadian (who prides himself on his patriotism too) just blanket insults Canadians.  I guess we know where the loyalty goes now...

One day you will realize you are simply being trolled by our resident American who loves trolling everything Canada.

[bush_cheney2004]

It is not "unpatriotic" to criticize Justin Trudeau, regardless of Trump's antics.

Justin Trudeau is a putz...there...I said it.

Trudeau was failing badly even in Canadian media long before Trump's remarks/tariffs.

[dialamah]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

It is not "unpatriotic" to criticize Justin Trudeau, regardless of Trump's antics.

Justin Trudeau is a putz...there...I said it.

 

No its not unpatriotic to criticize Trudeau; the lack of patriotism arises when they also expect JT to bend over and let Trump screw Canada over.