Doug Ford - leader of Ontario PCs

[BubberMiley]

52 minutes ago, Centerpiece said:

Ford is the only one who is committed to getting to a balanced budget in his first term.

But you don't really know. He's given no details about how he would do that. He's made a lot of pie in the sky promises without explaining how he would fulfill them. That's kind of the opposite of being fiscally responsible.

[H10]

On 5/26/2018 at 4:17 AM, taxme said:

Where and how did Trump raise taxes on the working people? Did you not read what I said? Many companies were able to give their employees a thousand dollars in bonus money because of Trump cutting taxes. Trump was responsible for that. Unemployment is dropping because since Trump became president millions of jobs have been created. It was Obama was responsible for the high unemployment rate in America and of the destruction of the middle class. The middle class were starting to disappear under the Obama regime. Thanks to Trump unemployment for blacks and Latinos has dropped since Trump became president. 

The Trump tax cuts for large businesses were financed by raising taxes on poor, middle and working classes.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johntamny/2018/01/28/last-week-donald-trump-raised-taxes-on-every-single-american/#4fab9c8d3b61

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/21/trumps-economic-advisers-warn-on-his-proposal-to-raise-gas-tax.html

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-tax-plan-raise-taxes-middle-income-families-2017-9

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/11/02/the-gop-tax-plan-limits-deductions-used-in-blue-states/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.eada2d445fac

 

Actually, it was Bush who cratered the economy and destroyed it with the same policies that Trump is doing now.  Obama fixed it and gave Trump a very strong economy.  The American middle class started disappearing from Ronald Reagan's anti-worker policies.

 

 

On 5/26/2018 at 4:17 AM, taxme said:

So, why not vote for Ford? Can he do any worse than what Wynne has done to Ontario? Horwath will even be worse than Wynne if she becomes the premier of Ontario. I say give the guy a chance and let's see what he can do. Where did I say that Ford is lying? 

What? Wynne has run up a bigger debt for Ontario. She also has raised plenty of taxes while in office. The middle class has been dying under the present day liberal regimes in Ontario and Canada that have been running and ruining this country for the past few years. Canada is well on it's way to becoming a socialist third world hell hole. That is just as bad as fascism is. 

At least Iceland is not a right wing or fascist state. The government is there for it's people. Bulgaria is not. 

 

 

Ford can do much, much , much worse like Ernie Eves with power outages in a 1st world country or Mike Harris with toxic water in walkerton killing people and selling off $5 billion highways built with public money to his spanish friends for $1 billion and charging the tax payer for what they already built. Liberals were in power longer, but the debt per year is about the same between liberals and conservatives.  NO one wantsmore conservative tax increases.  If we end up like socialist hellzones like Norway, I think I can survive that.

[WIP]

On 5/26/2018 at 7:13 PM, Argus said:

Maybe you should get your calendar adjusted. Harris was 15 years ago, and according to the AG it's the policies of the Liberals which have caused Ontarions to have to spend many tens of billions extra in electricity costs.

If you say so! 15 years ago was 2003 by my calendar! Didn't Harris find his escape hatch in April 2002? And:

Leaders Ignore Real reasons For High Hydro Rates

Quote

 

Today, $1.5 Billion is taken out of Ontario's economy by private power every year, and rates have skyrocketed.

Before deregulation, the money now funneled into profits went out to businesses and citizens in the form of low and stable rates provided by Ontario Hydro and municipal electric commissions. Business and industry prospered with the competitive advantage of "power at cost," providing millions of good jobs for nearly a century.

What happened, and how did Ontarians end up paying twice what businesses and citizens do in Manitoba and Quebec?

In 1998, without a hint of irony, his Conservative government undid what Sir Adam Beck worked so hard to create. They passed legislation to deregulate Ontario's public power.It began with Mike Harris.

Promising "lower rates," the Harris government changed Hydro One, Ontario Power Generation and municipal utilities from "at cost" commissions into "for-profit" corporations.

The question he was repeatedly asked was, "how do you get lower rates when you add in profits to generators, profits to distributors, profits to retailers, dividends to investors and commissions to commodities brokers?"

There was never a good answer. And today it is clear why: You don't.

Only one thing stopped the costly privatization of public power from happening faster. At Christmas time in 2001, Mike Harris announced the sale of Hydro One, the province's distribution system. The Ontario Electricity Coalition partners, the Canadian Union of Public Employees (CUPE) and the Communications Energy and Paperworkers (now Unifor), took the Harris government to court and won, proving that the Harris government did not have the right to sell Hydro One. It was a good day for the people of Ontario - privatization had been stopped.

But it hadn't been stopped. It was just done more subversively.

In the 2003 election, the NDP were successfully making public power a key election issue. Suffering in the polls, Liberal Leader Dalton McGuinty came out echoing the NDP's "public power" promise. That became one of his litany of broken promises. Instead, he brought in "smart meters" and "time of use pricing," which created enormous room for profits to be funneled into a new electricity market. His government's energy privatization scheme used terms like "community power" to mask privatization of green energy, and ultimately led to the gas plants scandal, which forced McGuinty from office. It's a scandal that simply could not have happened under Sir Adam Beck's old public power system.

Before deregulation, electricity was 4.3 cent a kilowatt hour, now it is 12.9 cents That's a 300 percent increase. In other words, Hydro prices have risen at 10 times the rate of inflation.

We're in an election again. There is still time to press candidates for affordable, reliable public power.

Kathleen Wynne is continuing this costly scheme of deregulation and privatization. The Liberal promise that "smart meters" would save you money was false. PC Leader Tim Hudak, who supported and voted for Harris' legislation to deregulate electricity, has amnesia about the Conservative record on Hydro. The plan he voted for, promising lower rates, has been soundly proven to be a failure.  

 

Now, do you see what happened here? First, the Cons promised the usual magic-of-the-market-BS that privatization would fix Hydro's problems, and then (and how many times has this happened before) a Liberal leader comes into office saying one thing/but then doing the other, so the McGuinty government is the culprit that followed through on Harris's dream! So many times...no matter where you go, it's these liberal nice-sounding centrists who disarm the public and open us up for the rightwing's worst plans that they can't get passed when they are actually  in office! 

And, that's why I'm a little reluctant to dump all the blame on Kathleen Wynn today!  She had to inherit and not complain about McGimpy's great strategizing, and try to bring it under control. Now that the NDP is finally talking about going back to Adam Beck's original vision (he was a Conservative btw), let's hold her to that promise and get rid of the thieves and public service kleptocrats that profit from our costs and misery!  

The only thing Dougie is going to do if he wins, is raise residential rates back up and cut business rates as an "incentive" for his friends!

[angrypenguin]

http://www.onpulse.ca/blog/ndp-leads-by-4-as-final-debate-looms

Well fuck this. I'm glad I'm moving out of Canada this week!

[eyeball]

7 minutes ago, angrypenguin said:

I'm glad I'm moving out of Canada this week!

Me too.

[angrypenguin]

Just now, eyeball said:

Me too.

 

I can't wait for Ontario to bankrupt themselves while I laugh and watch from far away. Show the entitled folks what happens when they run out of other people's money.

[eyeball]

17 minutes ago, angrypenguin said:

 

I can't wait for Ontario to bankrupt themselves while I laugh and watch from far away. Show the entitled folks what happens when they run out of other people's money.

If you liked Ontario's creative accounting practices you'll love the US military's.  Some estimates place the amount of its unaccountable spending at 21 Trillion dollars.

Must be nice to be too big to fail.

Edited May 28, 2018 by eyeball

[Michael Hardner]

16 minutes ago, angrypenguin said:

I can't wait for Ontario to bankrupt themselves while I laugh and watch from far away. Show the entitled folks what happens when they run out of other people's money.

Meh.  Stop bawling.  The province didn't crash when Rae led Ontario: a few rich people had to pay a little extra money that's all.  Likewise when Harris won, all that happened was somebody got shot by the cops in a park and some other people died also, and some disabled people got welfare cut and so on.

 

https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/onvotes/poll-tracker/

 

The hash dealer is still projected to get a majority so stop punching your pillow

[WIP]

18 minutes ago, angrypenguin said:

 

I can't wait for Ontario to bankrupt themselves while I laugh and watch from far away. Show the entitled folks what happens when they run out of other people's money.

If Ontario and Canada are bankrupted, it will be because we're not following orders that Trump.gov demands on trade!

[WIP]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

Meh.  Stop bawling.  The province didn't crash when Rae led Ontario: a few rich people had to pay a little extra money that's all.  Likewise when Harris won, all that happened was somebody got shot by the cops in a park and some other people died also, and some disabled people got welfare cut and so on.

 

https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/onvotes/poll-tracker/

 

The hash dealer is still projected to get a majority so stop punching your pillow

I used to do more volunteer work at that time, and I can tell you that the Harris cuts were A BIG DEAL to the single moms who had less money to make ends meet!  It's trivia until you have to put a face on the story....like the shooting of Dudley George that was never properly investigated....which I assume is the nameless "somebody" who got shot in a park you're referring to here.

[bush_cheney2004]

42 minutes ago, H10 said:

...Actually, it was Bush who cratered the economy and destroyed it with the same policies that Trump is doing now.  Obama fixed it and gave Trump a very strong economy.  The American middle class started disappearing from Ronald Reagan's anti-worker policies.

 

Actually, Obama kept the Bush tax cuts and stimulus spending in place, creating record deficits and debt.

Not that any of this has squat to do with a provincial election in Canada, but it is the Canadian way to gaze south for political ammunition.

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, WIP said:

1) I can tell you that the Harris cuts were A BIG DEAL to the single moms who had less money to make ends meet! 

2) It's trivia until you have to put a face on the story....

3) like the shooting of Dudley George that was never properly investigated....which I assume is the nameless "somebody" who got shot in a park you're referring to here.

I think you didn't pick up on the irony.

The people who love Doug aren't prioritizing ...
1) Single moms
2) People in dire straits
3) Native protestors

[Centerpiece]

1 hour ago, BubberMiley said:

But you don't really know. He's given no details about how he would do that. He's made a lot of pie in the sky promises without explaining how he would fulfill them. 

You never really knew about Wynne - remember Sousa last April boasting how they were balancing the budget this year, next year and the one after......? And what do we have one year later - endless deficits and more debt. Harwath? The NDP ideology should tell you all you need to know. How about Trudeau - remember those "modest" deficits and balanced budgets? So no - we don't know what Ford will actually do - but his whole mantra, his entire personna has always been about fiscal responsibility so unless he is an absolute liar like Trudeau, I don't think we have to worry about runaway spending. At this stage of the Global/National/Provincial economy, I'd rather err on the side of someone who at least has aspirations to rein in spending and eventually balance the budget.

While we're on the economy - that's the dark-horse in the race - the business community will without fail. react negatively to the NDP and lukewarm at best to the Liberals. A Conservative win could very likely give a little nudge to the economy. They provide the biggest potential upside to increasing government revenues through their positive messaging.

All my opinion of course - and all remains to be seen.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Centerpiece

[capricorn]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Sure.  Do you think that will swing the election ?  

I just found it rather comical.

[Argus]

3 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I don’t think Ford supporters can see how repulsive he is to many other voters. He’s that ignorant loudmouth in the bar who won’t shut up. The thought of having to listen to him for an extended period of years is too awful to contemplate. 

No worse than Trudeau. Can't stand the sight or sound of him. But we're not electing him emperor. It's the party I'm voting for.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, WIP said:

If you say so! 15 years ago was 2003 by my calendar! Didn't Harris find his escape hatch in April 2002? And:

Leaders Ignore Real reasons For High Hydro Rates

Now, do you see what happened here? 

According to the public service union of Ontario it's all the Tories fault. So what? Their credibility is zero. This is a union which has been exchanging kickbacks with the Ontario Liberals for fifteen years. You think I care what they have to say as opposed to the Ontario Auditor General? I don't pay any attention to nonsensical left wing anti-capitalist babble.

 

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Meh.  Stop bawling.  The province didn't crash when Rae led Ontario: a few rich people had to pay a little extra money that's all.  Likewise when Harris won, all that happened was somebody got shot by the cops in a park and some other people died also, and some disabled people got welfare cut and so on.

When Harris took over one out of eight Ontarions were on welfare. 

The Left is driven to 'help' people by giving them money. There's never, EVER an end to how much they want to help, or how much money they're willing to spend. And there's very little realization, understanding or care that the money they spend is taken away from other people because they simply shrug those people off as 'rich'. And since they're anti-capitalist they don't care about the profits of business, either. Certainly they don't care as compared to 'helping' people. 

The problem is that the more you tax people the more you damage the economy, and that produces more poverty and unemployment, not less. This is the key economic feature the NDP has NEVER paid any attention to and refuse to even consider.

Oh, yes, yes, their platform is all 'costed out'. Which is bullshit. For example, how do they plan to pay for dental care? Oh, they'll just pass a law requiring all employers to do it. Simple! Doesn't even cost the government much! Just like raising minimum wages! Easy peasy! And it won't cost jobs, right!? 

Edited May 28, 2018 by Argus

[Argus]

1 hour ago, WIP said:

I used to do more volunteer work at that time, and I can tell you that the Harris cuts were A BIG DEAL to the single moms who had less money to make ends meet!  It's trivia until you have to put a face on the story....like the shooting of Dudley George that was never properly investigated....which I assume is the nameless "somebody" who got shot in a park you're referring to here.

No nation can exist with one out of eight people on welfare indefinitely. There had to be cutbacks. As for Dudley George - who gives a crap about him? You confront the cops you get what you take your changes, and I won't cry if you wind up under the ground.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Argus

[SpankyMcFarland]

26 minutes ago, Argus said:

No worse than Trudeau. Can't stand the sight or sound of him. But we're not electing him emperor. It's the party I'm voting for.

I don’t think he’s capable of doing the job and I’d be surprised if he lasts for a full term. 

Edited May 28, 2018 by SpankyMcFarland

[Argus]

3 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I don’t think he’s capable of doing the job. 

I don't think EITHER of them are capable of being more than tv show hosts. I'm not relying on Ford to come up with any big ideas.

[SpankyMcFarland]

29 minutes ago, Argus said:

I don't think EITHER of them are capable of being more than tv show hosts. I'm not relying on Ford to come up with any big ideas.

I would certainly concede that the fiscal situation is a major worry and that the PCs seem to be showing the most awareness of that. 

[Centerpiece]

9 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I would certainly concede that the fiscal situation is a major worry and that the PCs seem to be showing the most awareness of that. 

As Horwath said "you're catchin' on". But in all seriousness, that is the key point. The lesser evil if you wish.

[Centerpiece]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

When Harris took over one out of eight Ontarions were on welfare. 

The Left is driven to 'help' people by giving them money. There's never, EVER an end to how much they want to help, or how much money they're willing to spend.

They "help" people when they can use other peoples' money. Helps to explain why Conservatives in the US give a lot more to charity than Liberals do. A lot more. Probably the same in Canada.

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/opinion/21kristof.html

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

1) The Left is driven to...

2) The problem is that the more you tax people the more you damage the economy, and that produces more poverty and unemployment, not less. 

3) Oh, yes, yes, their platform is all 'costed out'. Which is bullshit.  

1) Yes when you go into 'subjective' mode, I put you on 'mute' as you are making no effort to speak in terms that others can relate to or discuss with.  Enjoy your soapbox but it's not conductive to any kind of response.

2) So why have taxes at all according to that logic ?

3) More than Ford's is though.

[taxme]

20 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Opening statements:

Ford - plan, plan, pla...cut off

Horwath - change, change, change

Wynne - I’m not sorry, look at my record, no really, look at it. Isn’t it wonderful? 

 

 

Ford:         Better than getting more of liberalism and socialism. 

Horwath:  More big brother socialism spending.

Wynne:     More big brother liberalism spending.

There is only one person to vote for.  I say #1. Less socialism and less liberalism should help Ontario to get it's chit together.