Argus Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 Business Insider compiled a list of the 25 most powerful militaries in the world. It will surprise no one who the top half dozen are. It will surprise no one Canada is not on the list. Australia is, though. So my question is, who is it a country a third smaller than us has a more powerful military than we do with a considerably larger budget? Australia is much smaller than Canada, with a smaller debt and deficit. Canada, population 34 million. Defense budget $18.9 billion, 396 aircraft, 30 ships, most obsolete Australia, population 22 million. Defense budget $24.1 billion, 465 aircraft, 47 ships http://www.businessinsider.com/most-powerful-militaries-in-the-world-ranked-2018-2#22-australia-4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Argus said: Business Insider compiled a list of the 25 most powerful militaries in the world. It will surprise no one who the top half dozen are. It will surprise no one Canada is not on the list. Dunno how much relevance such lists really have. For example, this linked list puts Egypt well above Israel. Does anyone doubt what would happen if the two fought yet again? Even worse, it puts Russia within 10% of the US in terms of its "power index", but the reality is US military capabilities are many times superior to those of Russia. That said, the military is simply not a priority in Canada. Australia is its own continent and much closer to potentially unstable situations in the Asia-Pacific region as compared to Canada, which is in about as safe a location as possible on Earth and where most of the population assumes that the US will shoulder the burden of protecting the continent should such a need ever arise. Edited February 27, 2018 by Bonam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Argus said: ...Australia is, though. So my question is, who is it a country a third smaller than us has a more powerful military than we do with a considerably larger budget? Because Australia lives in a rougher neighbourhood and doesn't have the luxury of being a "bludger", NATO deadbeat nation like Canada, which is far more dependent on close proximity and integration with the United States. Quote Neil James, executive director of the Australian Defence Association used blunter language to describe how Canada has ended up being almost dead last among western nations in defence spending, while his country seems destined to end up third, behind the U.S. and Britain. “In a way, Canada has been a bludger,” he said, using an Australian term used to describe a loafer or sponger. “You live off your bigger neighbour next door.” http://nationalpost.com/opinion/matthew-fisher-canada-lives-off-u-s-military-protection-while-australia-forced-to-fend-for-itself Edited February 27, 2018 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted February 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 Just now, Bonam said: Dunno how much relevance such lists really have. For example, this linked list puts Egypt well above Israel. Does anyone doubt what would happen if the two fought yet again? That said, the military is simply not a priority in Canada. Australia is its own continent and much closer to potentially unstable situations in the Asia-Pacific region as compared to Canada, which is in about as safe a location as possible on Earth and where most of the population assumes that the US will shoulder the burden of protecting the continent should such a need ever arise. The world is becoming a dangerous place full of dangerous, unprincipled men: Putin, Jinping, Erdogen, Duterte, Trump, with no one out there that you can really point to as a reliable military ally, other than the UK. I would not rely on Trump for ANYTHING. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted February 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Because Australia lives in a rougher neighbourhood and doesn't have the luxury of being a "bludger", NATO deadbeat nation like Canada, which is far more dependent on close proximity and integration with the United States Yes, I understand that, but that mentality is from when the US was a reliable Ally, and in the Trump era that's no longer the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Argus said: Yes, I understand that, but that mentality is from when the US was a reliable Ally, and in the Trump era that's no longer the case. The Trump "era" will last at most 7 more years. That is, if we initiated any capital spending now, we still wouldn't have any new hardware by the time he's out of office. Edited February 27, 2018 by Bonam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 9 minutes ago, Argus said: Yes, I understand that, but that mentality is from when the US was a reliable Ally, and in the Trump era that's no longer the case. The U.S. has known for years that Canada is not a reliable ally because it is a deadbeat on defense spending, rejected missile defense, and lacks some very basic military capabilities. Canadian Forces have been starved and abused for so long, it is considered normal. Even CF pension and disability payments have been cut in favour of multi-million payments to convicted war criminals like Omar Khadr. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITIZEN_2015 Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) This ranking is based on military hardware and army personal size whereas in reality the intelligence and will to fight has not been taken into account. For example Egypt is ranked number 10 and Iarael as number 15 whereas we all wiitnessed just a few decades ago how the entire Egyption army was crushed in 5 days by superior (not in terms of military hardware) Israeli army. Saudi Arabia is ranked among the top 25!!!!!. Yes they are armed to teeth with best weapons US could provide but a sophisticated US fighter jet operates a bit different to how a camel in the desert are operated. Also hate to see Russia back in second place. Maybe Russia should have been nuked when we had the chance in mid 90's just joking though bombing Kremlin would have been nice to watch. Unity is by far more important than the army rank. The West must get united and against a very serious enemy facing the civilized world. They acted too late against Nazi Germany and 50 million lost their lives. Hopefully they won't make the same mistake again and act now before this time 5 billion people lose their lives. Edited February 27, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 35 minutes ago, Bonam said: The Trump "era" will last at most 7 more years. That is, if we initiated any capital spending now, we still wouldn't have any new hardware by the time he's out of office. Agreed....blaming Trump today for Canada's decades old military decline is laughable. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted February 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Bonam said: The Trump "era" will last at most 7 more years. That is, if we initiated any capital spending now, we still wouldn't have any new hardware by the time he's out of office. What makes you think whoever replaces Trump will be much better? Do you remember the cast of characters he was running against? Granted, most of them could read, at least, but we're more likely to see someone like Sarah Palin as his successor in the Republican party than anyone capable. As for the Dems, a more screwed up bunch it's hard to find, and right now the only likely candidates are all worse than each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannuck Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) Canada's military is weak and decimated because of Pierre Elliot Trudeau and his minion, Paul Hellier. When our dearly beloved fellow traveller tucked his Communist Party card into his wallet and came back to Canada, he remained resolutely on a path that seems to have been more beneficial to his ideological heroes than Canadians. What a stroke of political genius: take the soft underbelly of the US (i.e. Canada) and take the institution that defined us as a new and strong nation at Vimy Ridge and turn it into a social experiment. Not more than a few weeks after the White Paper, I saw francophone junior NCOs who had virtually no prospects of ever having more than two hooks on the sleeve be solicited to become officer candidates. Once they removed the uniforms from the various services, the Trudeau job of destroying the morale of the forces was complete. The acorn did not follow far from the tree (although it did not seem to inherit much of the gray matter - how Kardashian of it). Rewarding terrorists for killing allied soldiers and depriving the services and veterans of what they need to be effective is page right out of the old man's play book. Embarrassing the rest of the country with his buffoonery is just a bonus. Edited February 27, 2018 by cannuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted February 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 12 minutes ago, cannuck said: Canada's military is weak and decimated because of Pierre Elliot Trudeau and his minion, Paul Hellier. Yes. All true. Up to a point. Mulroney did nothing for our military, nor did Chretien, and after a reasonable start, when Harper needed to find funds he did the same as Trudeau, Chretien and Mulroney, and raided the military budget, leaving it worse than he found it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannuck Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Argus said: Yes. All true. Up to a point. Mulroney did nothing for our military, nor did Chretien, and after a reasonable start, when Harper needed to find funds he did the same as Trudeau, Chretien and Mulroney, and raided the military budget, leaving it worse than he found it. I agree, but I did happen to notice that there was a lot more budget to be raided under Harper. I was raised in the military, and we have a brigade officer in the immediate family serving now, so I get to have a peek inside the kimono regularly. Things were not great under McKnight, but IMHO MacKay did really well at it. Much to my surprise, Sajjan is pretty much ineffective - in spite of being a reserve colonel who has served in combat. Edited February 27, 2018 by cannuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 58 minutes ago, Argus said: What makes you think whoever replaces Trump will be much better? Nothing. They could easily be even worse (yes, things can always be even worse). But you can hardly expect Canadian defense spending policy to change within 1 year of an American election. If it becomes clear in the long term that Canada shouldn't rely on the US for defense, it might eventually change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bonam said: Nothing. They could easily be even worse (yes, things can always be even worse). But you can hardly expect Canadian defense spending policy to change within 1 year of an American election. If it becomes clear in the long term that Canada shouldn't rely on the US for defense, it might eventually change. No doubt....as such an idea is even more pathetic...reacting and depending on what happens in a foreign (U.S.) election to develop Canadian national policy. The Business Insider makes a habit of posting adwall click bait featuring "special" military developments that are hardly newsworthy. Edited February 27, 2018 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said: No doubt....as such an idea is even more pathetic...reacting and depending on what happens in a foreign (U.S.) election to develop Canadian national policy. I don't know... it actually makes a lot of sense that foreign policy and military spending would depend on the threats and alliances that a country sees in the world. If you have lots of allies and are insulated from threats, not much need for a big military. If you have lots of enemies and not many strong allies, then a big military becomes very important. Certainly American policy changes in response to increased or reduced threats from other nations, such as reduced spending on strategic weapon systems towards and after the end of the cold war, or increased focus on the Pacific theater now with the rise of China. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Bonam said: I don't know... it actually makes a lot of sense that foreign policy and military spending would depend on the threats and alliances that a country sees in the world. If you have lots of allies and are insulated from threats, not much need for a big military. The U.S. is still allied with Canada through NATO and NORAD...all that has changed is that the current American president has gone one step further than the previous presidents in calling out Canada, Germany, and other deadbeats on their lack of defense spending and military capabilities. Canadian politicians have leveraged such conditions for a "seat at the table" and influence on international conflict resolution. Freeland basically admitted that if the Americans won't carry the bulk of the post WW2 burden any more, then the deadbeats are going to have to up their game. It's gotten so bad that Canada doesn't even have many UN "peacekeepers®" deployed, despite Trudeau promises to the contrary. Edited February 27, 2018 by bush_cheney2004 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, Argus said: Business Insider compiled a list of the 25 most powerful militaries in the world. It will surprise no one who the top half dozen are. It will surprise no one Canada is not on the list. Australia is, though. So my question is, who is it a country a third smaller than us has a more powerful military than we do with a considerably larger budget? Australia is much smaller than Canada, with a smaller debt and deficit. Canada, population 34 million. Defense budget $18.9 billion, 396 aircraft, 30 ships, most obsolete Australia, population 22 million. Defense budget $24.1 billion, 465 aircraft, 47 ships http://www.businessinsider.com/most-powerful-militaries-in-the-world-ranked-2018-2#22-australia-4 Interesting. I never thought to see some of the countries named on that list. And I thought Israel will be one of those at the top. Could it be possible that some of the countries would not have given an accurate number for their armors and weaponry? After all, divulging exactly how many tanks, soldiers, ships and planes you have is vital information. Edited February 27, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, Argus said: Yes, I understand that, but that mentality is from when the US was a reliable Ally, and in the Trump era that's no longer the case. Could it be because of........ Obama's lap dog, Trudeau? Edited February 27, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannuck Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) That lap dog is very much a Pekingese. What seems to be ignored in spades is that while Canada does not have literal "enemies", we have massive exposure and violations of our sovereignty throughout the Arctic. We REALLY need a much larger military budget, equipment and presence to even be able to maintain our legal claim to that region. BTW: that job is done by Rangers - who deserve far better training, equipment and support. If you want to inlcude the Innu population in Canada, that is how we can do so. What Trump has pointed out correctly is that we also have formal comittments to our allies - and we are not living up to those obligations. Instead of destroying our own country by importing a million potential terrorists and parking them right on the most undefended border to the US (no doubt to SQUEALS of joy from PETs mentors), we should be ponying up to what has been decided by many nations to maintaining world order. Edited February 27, 2018 by cannuck 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 16 hours ago, Argus said: Business Insider compiled a list of the 25 most powerful militaries in the world. It will surprise no one who the top half dozen are. It will surprise no one Canada is not on the list. Australia is, though. So my question is, who is it a country a third smaller than us has a more powerful military than we do with a considerably larger budget? Australia is much smaller than Canada, with a smaller debt and deficit. Canada, population 34 million. Defense budget $18.9 billion, 396 aircraft, 30 ships, most obsolete Australia, population 22 million. Defense budget $24.1 billion, 465 aircraft, 47 ships http://www.businessinsider.com/most-powerful-militaries-in-the-world-ranked-2018-2#22-australia-4 I like your comparison. One has to make accurate comparisons as to levels of income, geographic issues, etc., and Australia v. Canada is a good comparison . For me Canada has clearly done away with its navy, understaffed and under-armed its military and has neglected its Air Force since WW2 assuming the US taxpayers and their military would umbrella protect us. Its dishonest. The same leftist toads who piss on the US in Canada have lived under its military protection umbrella they take for granted. Our refusal to maintain and equip not just a navy but fisheries and coast guard vessels led to the permanent depletion of our fish stocks by Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Spanish and Portugese who destroyed our ecosystems using bottom scraper nets and huge factory ships. Then we have constant transgression in our North by the US, Russia, Denmark, Britain, etc., all establishing rights to passage because of our lack of enforcing consistently our sovereign waters. Right now our coastal defence up North consists and this is no joke of sending some aboriginals we call "Rangers" in kayaks to travel off shore. Its a friggin joke. But no problem. The esteemed choreographer and model, Justin Trudeau is in charge. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 5 minutes ago, Rue said: The same leftist toads who piss on the US in Canada have lived under its military protection umbrella they take for granted. It would be nice to actually discuss the situation without the complete utter bullshyte you continually regurgitate. When you grow up maybe we can have a real discussion on the state of Canada's military and where it should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 Leaky frigates. http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/hmcs-calgary-leaks-30000-litres-of-fuel-into-strait-of-georgia Yup...ready 4 battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 8 minutes ago, ?Impact said: It would be nice to actually discuss the situation without the complete utter bullshyte you continually regurgitate. When you grow up maybe we can have a real discussion on the state of Canada's military and where it should be. Yes this coming from one who responded to me in another thread believing because Alberta's minimum wage is $15 and Ontario's is $14, the minimum wage level in Ontario (not to mention Alberta) is not harmful to Ontario business. Yes this coming from someone who responded to me in that other thread that if he compares the income tax rate in another province to Ontario's and Newfoundland's is higher, this means the current income tax rate in Ontario on business is not detrimental to Ontario business. Speaking about utter bullshit, do you deny that your governments in Canada have let the military shrink to the point of no return since WW2? well? What its bullshit because I don't prescribe to your leftist fantasy world? The only bullshit is your inability to counter what I said with anything but some name calling. Go on provide evidence the following is bullshit. https://sencanada.ca/en/newsroom/canada-not-carrying-weight-when-comes-defence-spending/ http://www.cips-cepi.ca/2015/09/24/canadian-defence-spending-is-less-than-half-of-nato-target/ http://www.thewhig.com/2015/09/25/our-shrinking-military-power http://espritdecorps.ca/commentary/facing-reality-the-nature-of-canadas-defence-crisis http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-military-losing-soldiers-at-increasing-rate-headcount-drops-to-level-not-seen-in-years http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/canadian-military-spending-by-the-numbers https://www.fraserinstitute.org/tags/canadian-forces Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 12 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Leaky frigates. http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/hmcs-calgary-leaks-30000-litres-of-fuel-into-strait-of-georgia Yup...ready 4 battle. When you tell a leftist something they don't agree with its bullshit. Do not dare question the world of staged Indian choreography on world stage for the real world. See we don't need a navy. We send Justin to dance in quaint costumes and bring along rehabilitated terrorists. Who needs a navy let alone an armed forces. http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/the-canadian-navys-slow-motion-crisis/ http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/the-sinking-of-the-canadian-navy/ http://torontosun.com/2013/06/22/canadas-navy-not-shipshape/wcm/63edf69a-40a5-4908-ad9f-53c01559436e http://cimsec.org/canadas-naval-fuel-crisis/19073 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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