De-policing hurts us all

[Argus]

I'm a harsh critic of police who abuse their powers. Though I admittedly have little sympathy for criminals. I believe much of the anti-police hysteria which has emerged over the past several years has been petty, takes their activities out of context, and ignores reality. That's particularly so of the racial element. It seems any time there's any police interaction with minority members there are howls of racism, which bring spineless politicians rushing in to profess their virtue and inclusiveness and promise action. That's so regardless of whether there is any actual evidence of racism.

The result is de-policing. The police pull back, don't initiate, don't do proactive policing. If they see suspicious characters, especially if they're minorities, they just drive on by rather than stopping to ask them their business. In doctoral research, 70% of police officers admitted to doing this in response to the current environment. 

Others said they drove the speed limit, to “doomsday scenario calls” — where a racialized person might be exhibiting mental health issues and behaving violently. Officers know there will be video taken and they might have to use force and fear the repercussions.

Officers are most likely to de-police situations out of fear of interacting with a racialized person or those with mental health issues. The gender and sexuality of members of the public they could interact with also weigh on officers’ minds, but to a much lesser extent.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/to-swerve-and-neglect-ottawa-cop-turned-researcher-finds-decline-in-proactive-policing

Edited February 13, 2018 by Argus

[eyeball]

36 minutes ago, Argus said:

The result is de-policing. The police pull back, don't initiate, don't do proactive policing. If they see suspicious characters, especially if they're minorities, they just drive on by rather than stopping to ask them their business. In doctoral research, 70% of police officers admitted to doing this in response to the current environment.

Others said they drove the speed limit, to “doomsday scenario calls” — where a racialized person might be exhibiting mental health issues and behaving violently. Officers know there will be video taken and they might have to use force and fear the repercussions. 

I wonder how many people are afraid to call police lest they have a dead person on their conscience?    

[Boges]

Maybe they should be giving back their generous salary if the refuse to actually do their job.

[?Impact]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

In doctoral research, 70% of police officers admitted to doing this in response to the current environment.

There are many different kinds of police work, but many do fall in the trap of if they see something out of the ordinary then start exercising authority. Unfortunately too often the "something out of the ordinary" is about the person (race, age, activity) but has nothing to do with the legality of what they are doing.

Authority is something earned, unfortunately the average police officer thinks their training is how they earned it. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is also very easily lost, and that happens all the time when it is abused.

[Argus]

4 hours ago, Boges said:

Maybe they should be giving back their generous salary if the refuse to actually do their job.

I've been saying police are overpaid as compared to their colleagues in other countries for many years.

That being said, it's irrelevant to the point. Which is police believe they're now being targeted by activists with the government's ear, and that oversight bodies are politicized so that if they do anything that a racialized minority can complain about their lives can be made hell.

[Argus]

4 hours ago, ?Impact said:

Authority is something earned, unfortunately the average police officer thinks their training is how they earned it. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is also very easily lost, and that happens all the time when it is abused.

And who benefits from that other than criminals?

[?Impact]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

And who benefits from that other than criminals?

Every citizen, or are you under the impression that if a cop has a suspicion then the citizen they are intruding on must be a criminal?

[Hal 9000]

This is particularly true in the US, and after the Darren Wilson incident, who could blame them.  The very last thing the FN's community needs is for the police to turn away from them, but that is likely to happen.

[H10]

15 hours ago, Argus said:

I'm a harsh critic of police who abuse their powers. Though I admittedly have little sympathy for criminals. I believe much of the anti-police hysteria which has emerged over the past several years has been petty, takes their activities out of context, and ignores reality. That's particularly so of the racial element. It seems any time there's any police interaction with minority members there are howls of racism, which bring spineless politicians rushing in to profess their virtue and inclusiveness and promise action. That's so regardless of whether there is any actual evidence of racism.

There exist a rebuttable presumption once you have a police interaction with a racialized group that racism is the defining issue due to the history of racism in Canada.   It really is a reverse onus because everyone is already presumed innocent until guilty, so the police have a lot ot prove to prove they aren't behaving racistly.

 

 

15 hours ago, Argus said:

The result is de-policing. The police pull back, don't initiate, don't do proactive policing. If they see suspicious characters, especially if they're minorities, they just drive on by rather than stopping to ask them their business. In doctoral research, 70% of police officers admitted to doing this in response to the current environment. 

Others said they drove the speed limit, to “doomsday scenario calls” — where a racialized person might be exhibiting mental health issues and behaving violently. Officers know there will be video taken and they might have to use force and fear the repercussions.

Officers are most likely to de-police situations out of fear of interacting with a racialized person or those with mental health issues. The gender and sexuality of members of the public they could interact with also weigh on officers’ minds, but to a much lesser extent.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/to-swerve-and-neglect-ottawa-cop-turned-researcher-finds-decline-in-proactive-policing

 

Good, we want our police to stop and think about their conduct before they engage in them.  If they see a suspicious character, we want police questioning what about this character is suspicious. Is it just their skin color, or is there an actual suspicious action that is possibly criminal occurring.  This shows anti-racism training is working.

 

 

 

 

[H10]

4 hours ago, Hal 9000 said:

This is particularly true in the US, and after the Darren Wilson incident, who could blame them.  The very last thing the FN's community needs is for the police to turn away from them, but that is likely to happen.

Given that he shot a child in the back for according to him was at worse punching him in the face, complete overreaction and he should be in prison.  If this is the way cops think, they should really de-police, shooting someone for walking in the street is sickening, maybe in Nazi Germany this is acceptable, not America.

[Hal 9000]

51 minutes ago, H10 said:

Given that he shot a child in the back for according to him was at worse punching him in the face, complete overreaction and he should be in prison.  If this is the way cops think, they should really de-police, shooting someone for walking in the street is sickening, maybe in Nazi Germany this is acceptable, not America.

WTF are you talking about?  Good grief!

[H10]

2 hours ago, Hal 9000 said:

WTF are you talking about?  Good grief!

Facts.

[Michael Hardner]

13 hours ago, Argus said:

That being said, it's irrelevant to the point. Which is police believe they're now being targeted by activists with the government's ear, and that oversight bodies are politicized so that if they do anything that a racialized minority can complain about their lives can be made hell.

I believe this may be the case, and these are all the results of management neglecting to address problems: increasing costs, excessive political management, low morale all happen when management doesn't pay attention. 

The public, the cops, and the taxpayers all have complaints.  Engage with those groups, list what the issue is, and address it - get the dialogue going.

[Argus]

On ‎2‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 6:21 PM, ?Impact said:

Every citizen, or are you under the impression that if a cop has a suspicion then the citizen they are intruding on must be a criminal?

No, I've been questioned, politely, in the past, about why I was at a certain place at a certain time. I answered, politely, and went about my way.

I would much prefer that than having insufficient police to control criminals, which is what we have in Ottawa.

[PIK]

Carding has been outlawed, dumb move. As one cop put it, working the night shift and you see people out late at night ,we would pull them over and see what is up and who they were. Then they would give that info to the next shift, and if there were incidents that took place that night, the day shift then can talk to people that were out and ask them if they had seen anything .

[?Impact]

Why don't we put video cameras on everyone and then we would know everything. If someone loses the film, then we execute them.

 

 

[Guest]

Just now, ?Impact said:

Why don't we put video cameras on everyone and then we would know everything. If someone loses the film, then we execute them.

 

 

Film?

[?Impact]

Just now, bcsapper said:

Film?

tape

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

tape

SD card?

I'm okay with the video cameras and the executions, but let's be 21st Century about it.

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, ?Impact said:

tape

Digital.  Every gun owner should be required to wear a camera whenever they have their gun.  We can't control guns but we can control the people who own them.

Its not just to help determine what actually happens for the sake of individuals involved in a shooting but for the sake of society - to help prevent the acrimonious political divisiveness shootings cause. 

[Argus]

15 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Why don't we put video cameras on everyone and then we would know everything. If someone loses the film, then we execute them.

 

 

Drama queen much?

[?Impact]

4 minutes ago, Argus said:

Drama queen much?

It is the logical conclusion of more police interference, what do you have to hide? If you are not doing anything wrong then you should be happy that they are keeping us safe.

[GostHacked]

On 2/14/2018 at 2:04 AM, H10 said:

Good, we want our police to stop and think about their conduct before they engage in them.  If they see a suspicious character, we want police questioning what about this character is suspicious. Is it just their skin color, or is there an actual suspicious action that is possibly criminal occurring.  This shows anti-racism training is working.

IN many cases we saw the actions of the police as very reactionary for instances that did not demand that much use of force. The assessment of a situation needs to be done quickly in some situations, but in most cases, it would be observing, documenting and then making the appropriate arrest. The police are trained in ways to take you down instantly if you do not comply with any order.

[Argus]

On 2/15/2018 at 12:40 PM, ?Impact said:

It is the logical conclusion of more police interference,

Drivel. In 2015 there were 7,000 street checks. That's really not a whole lot in a city of a million. Last year there were 4. Just four. Huh? 

Do you know what police in Ontario are required to do now if they see someone behaving suspiciously? They have to first tell them that they don't have to talk with them, nor even stay. If they do, they have to give them information on how to complain about the interaction, then document the check and give reasons for it. Needless to say, if you approach some street gang member or drug dealer or other criminal like that he's going to laugh in your face, give you the finger, and walk away. So what's the point? Giving them information on how to complain about you also could put the idea into the minds of people who naturally hate police that they ought to make a phone call, and make something up just to cause trouble. And if the person involved is Black or some other minority, which they probably will be, then you risk the accusation of racism. Why would police bother when they can just drive on by and ignore them?

[?Impact]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

Do you know what police in Ontario are required to do now if they see someone behaving suspiciously? They have to first tell them that they don't have to talk with them, nor even stay.

Please provide details of that.