Guest Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 5 minutes ago, Omni said: When you tick the box you are simply agreeing not to infringe on an individuals rights. That's what I disagree with, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 4 minutes ago, bcsapper said: That's what I disagree with, yes. Well then I'm sorry buddy, but I do agree with individual rights, including yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, Omni said: Well then I'm sorry buddy, but I do agree with individual rights, including yours. So do I, including yours. But I'm not sorry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 1 minute ago, bcsapper said: So do I, including yours. But I'm not sorry... So we hand out your and my tax dollars to give young school people a boost up without asking them to adhere to a specific religious belief. Fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 Just now, Omni said: So we hand out your and my tax dollars to give young school people a boost up without asking them to adhere to a specific religious belief. Fair enough. Of course. I certainly wouldn't have it any other way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 On 1/27/2018 at 5:09 PM, Omni said: First thing you should do before making a fool of yourself is reading/understanding what the attestation actually says. Your opening statement shows you clearly either haven't or can't. I filled one out I know exactly what it is. And it is right at the end and very small, hoping you will miss it and they do not have to give you money. This is attack on christian churches, they are the ones being single out, because they will not lie about it.. Are we all canadian or just the ones trudeau likes?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 (edited) The problem with JT on this issue is he made the organization declare their view on Reproductive Rights. That's pretty invasive questioning. You could ask if the grant is for anything that involves protesting reproductive rights and deny based on that. But if an organization is looking to do good charitable work, their views on Abortion is irrelevant. But this is more evidence that JT can't really stomach any opposing views ever. Edited January 29, 2018 by Boges 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 2 hours ago, PIK said: I filled one out I know exactly what it is. And it is right at the end and very small, hoping you will miss it and they do not have to give you money. This is attack on christian churches, they are the ones being single out, because they will not lie about it.. Are we all canadian or just the ones trudeau likes?? You have to realize that social justice warriors, while they have a deep and almost sycophantic respect for most religions, loath Christianity, everything about it, and everyone who believes in it. So if this pisses you off, that's fine with them. In fact, the more ways they can find to express their disdain and contempt for practicing Christians the happier they are. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 43 minutes ago, Argus said: You have to realize that social justice warriors, while they have a deep and almost sycophantic respect for most religions, loath Christianity, everything about it, and everyone who believes in it. So if this pisses you off, that's fine with them. In fact, the more ways they can find to express their disdain and contempt for practicing Christians the happier they are. More wild assumptions! Maybe students don't want summer jobs handing out graphic pictures of aborted fetuses such as was done last year. If you want public money to fund a summer job, respect the rights of who you hire. Is that too much to ask? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Omni said: If you want public money to fund a summer job, respect the rights of who you hire. Is that too much to ask? Freedom to refuse work you don't like is actually subordinate to freedom of religion in our pantheon of rights. Although I think it's slimy to use these tactics, and especially to hire students to do this kind of work it's not in the domain of government to prevent it from happening. Edited January 29, 2018 by Michael Hardner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: Freedom to refuse work you don't like is actually subordinate to freedom of religion in our pantheon of rights. Although I think it's slimy to use these tactics, and especially to hire students to do this kind of work it's not in the realm of government to prevent it. Not funding it with public funds isn't preventing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 14 minutes ago, Omni said: Not funding it with public funds isn't preventing it. It's a restriction of religious organizations freedom to pursue their goals without being denied benefits offered to other Canadians. Key words: restriction, religious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: It's a restriction of religious organizations freedom to pursue their goals without being denied benefits offered to other Canadians. Key words: restriction, religious Religious organizations can pursue their goals so long as in doing so they respect the underlying values contained in the charter of rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 18 minutes ago, Omni said: Religious organizations can pursue their goals so long as in doing so they respect the underlying values contained in the charter of rights. That is a new restriction on religions and as such would have to be tested at the SC. They have not ever been told they can't fire gay people as far as I know, for example. A Catholic school should be able to not hire someone of another religion if they so choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 Liberals just created an excuse to persecute faith groups and create a wedge issue for vote-getting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 On 1/28/2018 at 6:44 PM, taxme said: Indeed I am a FOX fan. You are a CNN fan. So, what's your point? I'm a fox fan as well, but that has nothing to do with Rupert Murdoch. 22 hours ago, taxme said: Sure, why not. All they are is just a bunch of great guys who occasionally get together and play a game called guess who is hiding under the sheets today. Sheesh. Where is your sense of humor that is if you have any? Thank you Donald for your love of those very fine people. 6 hours ago, PIK said: I filled one out I know exactly what it is. And it is right at the end and very small, hoping you will miss it and they do not have to give you money. This is attack on christian churches, they are the ones being single out, because they will not lie about it.. Are we all canadian or just the ones trudeau likes?? Always playing the victim, it seems to be standard with right wing bible thumpers 17 minutes ago, blackbird said: Liberals just created an excuse to persecute faith groups and create a wedge issue for vote-getting. see above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerteeth Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: Freedom to refuse work you don't like is actually subordinate to freedom of religion in our pantheon of rights. Although I think it's slimy to use these tactics, and especially to hire students to do this kind of work it's not in the domain of government to prevent it from happening. Except they are using government aid to do that kind of work so that makes it a government issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gingerteeth said: Except they are using government aid to do that kind of work so that makes it a government issue. Yes. Just like the government can't say "money for anybody but black people" they can't say "money for anybody but religious people". Some may have a problem with that analogy. Edited January 30, 2018 by Michael Hardner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 17 hours ago, Omni said: More wild assumptions! Maybe students don't want summer jobs handing out graphic pictures of aborted fetuses such as was done last year. If you want public money to fund a summer job, respect the rights of who you hire. Is that too much to ask? A church not far from me was out to hire 3 students . For cleaning and painting and one to update the web site. They are now denied,because of trudeau. So I guess when trudeau says ''a canadian is a canadian is a canadian , he is lying again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 38 minutes ago, PIK said: ... he is lying again. Muslims, Jews, and Christians are not 'normal' Canadians it seems now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 These Christian charitable groups spend a lot of time, effort and money to help people in need. They never ask for attestations or ask what a persons belief system is before giving their time and money, but I could imagine the outrage if they ever did. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 On 1/27/2018 at 4:44 PM, taxme said: The liberal government of Trudeau will ban any employer receiving summer job grants for students if the employer doesn't first sign "attestation" that they agree with abortion and transgender rights. Source: Lifestyle News. The above is false. No one has been asked to agree with abortion or transgender rights. That is an absolute and outright lie. Any government can not give grants to anyone who will not recognize an individual's rights under the Charter. No government has asked anyone to agree with anything. What they have said is if you want government funding you can't choose ONLY people who are not transgendered or are against abortion when they apply for work and you can not use either of those beliefs (believing transgender is wrong, abortion is wrong)as criteria to hire someone-no different from you can not expect government funding to hire students then refuse to hire blacks, Jews, etc. I wouldn't worry. I doubt anyone wants to work for you. Do you even work? Yah yah. You make pointed hoods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: Muslims, Jews, and Christians are not 'normal' Canadians it seems now. As a Canadian of Jewish identity I can attest I am not and have never been normal..but I know what you mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) 19 hours ago, blackbird said: Liberals just created an excuse to persecute faith groups and create a wedge issue for vote-getting. No they have not and in fact this has nothing to do with "Liberalism". Governments must remain neutral to all constituents. They therefire can't use taxpayers' money to fund anyone whose views would discriminate against another's violating the charter. Simply put, you don't have to agree with homosexuality as a lifestyle, but you can't refuse to fire someone who is gay simply because you disapprove of his being gay. No one asks you to accept his lifestyle. Maintain your own beliefs about gays, just don't expect the government to fund your discrimination. By the way, using your reasoning the government should fund the KKK because its a religious organization and it should fund extremist Islamic terrorist groups. I can't stand Trudeau or Liberals but this is not a "liberal" issue. Its a legal issue dealing with discriminating against people's basic legal rights. In fact true conservatism would maintain the government has no business imposing individual choices of lifestyle on anyone which is precisely what it would do if it allowed its taxpayers' money to be used to discriminate. Edited January 30, 2018 by Rue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 16 hours ago, Gingerteeth said: Except they are using government aid to do that kind of work so that makes it a government issue. That is the issue summarized in a short sentence. It being taxpayers' money, that money can't be use directly or indirectly to discriminate in job selection criteria that would violate the Charter and each province's human rights code let alone the Federal human rights code. You want the law to implement the right to not hire people because they are gay or he-she or what-ever, you will have to get rid of the charter and the human rights laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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