clubs New Clubs Feature

[bush_cheney2004]

I love it....moderation here at MLW is considered to be excessive and punitive by some, but given the chance (and power) in their own private club, they would delete posts and ban membership with equal zeal.   What is that old saying about "power" corrupting absolutely ?

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"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely...." - Sir John Dalberg-Acton

 

[Argus]

37 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

I love it....moderation here at MLW is considered to be excessive and punitive by some, but given the chance (and power) in their own private club, they would delete posts and ban membership with equal zeal.   What is that old saying about "power" corrupting absolutely ?

The problem with moderation at MLW is it's too rigid. It needs to be more laid back and casual in its application. This is not a government bureaucracy and is not accountable to anyone for how it interprets policy or rules. For example, I would let you in a club, and I usually have you on ignore. When you're not dick waving the red white and blue you can  talk intelligently on a variety of issues. Unfortunately, you can't resist flame bating people, which runs the discussions off track and into the gutter. I'd simply delete such posts.

And that's another problem with the moderation, and why people would want 'private clubs'. The moderation doesn't know what to do with crazy people because it's convinced it must respect everyone's free speech, and furthermore, must protect them from the mockery and insults of those who would heap scorn and ridicule on their crazy posts. No, it really doesn't. If someone's posting is deleterious to the web site they can be talked to, and if they continue,  simply be booted. I believe it was Jefferson who initiated the thought which became the phrase "The constitution is not a suicide pact" which recognized that it was all very well and good to have all these lovely defined rights, but that necessity and self-preservation might need to override them. I'd say the same for a web site. A commitment to free speech is great, but if it's going to destroy you then perhaps override that thought for a bit.

I recognize that's a problem, in how to judge what is a crazy/stupid post and who is a crazy poster. It's like art. Exceedingly hard to define, and yet, to most people, fairly easily recognized once they see it.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Argus

[bush_cheney2004]

17 minutes ago, Argus said:

The problem with moderation at MLW is it's too rigid. It needs to be more laid back and casual in its application. This is not a government bureaucracy and is not accountable to anyone for how it interprets policy or rules. For example, I would let you in a club, and I usually have you on ignore. When you're not dick waving the red white and blue you can  talk intelligently on a variety of issues. Unfortunately, you can't resist flame bating people, which runs the discussions off track and into the gutter. I'd simply delete such posts.

 

Sure...thank you for confirming my point above.  

You want more control over those who not only disagree with you, but in the way they choose to express opposing views.

Further, you want moderator(s) to adopt your stance and ultimate solution for such circumstances.

That this site's owner is affording the opportunity for private clubs and moderation suggests far more flexibility than rigidity.

Also, I have expressed many times that MLW moderation is more about excessive workload and high maintenance for some members/posts.   A tangled rat's nest of personal attacks, off topic rants,  thread drift, spam, etc.   If you make the police come to your house to clean up...they are not bringing milk and cookies.

[Argus]

12 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Sure...thank you for confirming my point above.  

You want more control over those who not only disagree with you, but in the way they choose to express opposing views.

I don't see that a web site where people don't disagree is going to have much in the way of interesting or worthwhile discussion. But when people want to flamebait they detract from that and such flamebait posts should be deleted. You're not in my ignore file most of the time because you disagree with me, but because you troll. I don't think Jacee has ever agreed with a single thing I've ever written, but she's not in my ignore file.

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Further, you want moderator(s) to adopt your stance and ultimate solution for such circumstances.

This site is dying. Solutions need to be found. That means looking at why people aren't posting, why they aren't sticking around, and dealing with it.

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That this site's owner is affording the opportunity for private clubs and moderation suggests far more flexibility than rigidity.

Or an attempt to get around the difficult dilemma they find themselves in - supporting almost unrestricted free speech yet dealing with loony, disruptive posters who, while not breaking the rules, are driving people away.

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Also, I have expressed many times that MLW moderation is more about excessive workload and high maintenance for some members/posts.   A tangled rat's nest of personal attacks, off topic rants,  thread drift, spam, etc.   If you make the police come to your house to clean up...they are not bringing milk and cookies.

I don't think it's very complicated to simply delete a post which is causing trouble.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Argus

[bush_cheney2004]

5 minutes ago, Argus said:

I don't see that a web site where people don't disagree is going to have much in the way of interesting or worthwhile discussion. But when people want to flamebait they detract from that and such flamebait posts should be deleted. You're not in my ignore file most of the time because you disagree with me, but because you troll. I don't think Jacee has ever agreed with a single thing I've ever written, but she's not in my ignore file.

 

Your reasons for avoidance behaviour are your choice.   From day one of my MLW membership I have advertised my reasons and purpose in challenging views that are devoid of reality and slathered with anti-Murican neuroses.     Some members don't like that, but it makes for much more interesting debate.

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This site is dying. Solutions need to be found. That means looking at why people aren't posting, why they aren't sticking around, and dealing with it.

 

Maybe...many of us are 10-15 years older than before.  Some have even gone to MLW heaven by now.

Still, MLW has endured while many others have folded.

The owner has been open to changes (e.g. embedded images and media), and now private forums supported by the forum engine.   I suspect that quality is desired over quantity based on my time here.

 

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Or an attempt to get around the difficult dilemma they find themselves in - supporting almost unrestricted free speech yet dealing with loony, disruptive posters who, while not breaking the rules, are driving people away.

I don't think it's very complicated to simply delete a post which is causing trouble.

 

Agreed, but the owner/mods faced a huge outcry of criticism when doing just that..."how dare they delete MY post !"   One member went so far as to vandalize the forum by attempting to delete all posts.   

A key, common thread to all the trouble is a solution that the mods have repeated many, many times for disruptive posts/members....ignore, ignore...ignore.

[Altai]

On 19.11.2017 at 4:31 AM, Michael Hardner said:

And how does one post in a club ?

You can think it as a private forum within the main forum. So clubs are the sub-forums created by users. Nothing different when it comes to post. There are topics created in these sub-forums and you are posting there like as you are posting here.

[Greg]

On 2017-11-18 at 7:31 PM, Michael Hardner said:

And how does one post in a club ?

First, add a topic (which will act as topics do in these forums).

Then add your first thread by selecting "Add your first topic"

And yes, I do realize the confusion, as topic is being used to describe a forum section, and a thread - I'm working on correcting that.

 

[Greg]

@Argus In terms of the clubs feature, lets just let the chips fall were they may...

I've added the clubs feature to provide members with options on how they want to participate. If they want to create a unmoderated (or differently moderated) forum, then they can do that within the MLW community.  I want everyone to get a taste of what it's like to be on the other side of the coin - the club leaders and moderators are going to have to make the same decisions the mods and myself make everyday.  And I don't mean that in a negative manner either, I believe the clubs feature will allow everyone to find their niche, and have some control and ownership over their niche.

And as I said earlier in this thread, lets not shit on this idea before we've given it a chance to work (or not work). If this turns out to be a failure, I'll remove it.  

There is never any harm in trying something new.

[Michael Hardner]

Can Club Members start topics (threads?) ?

[Greg]

19 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Can Club Members start topics (threads?) ?

Yes.

[Omni]

I doubt adopting this "new club feature" will do much to rescue a near defunct forum. Perhaps shedding a conspiracy theorist moderator would work much better. However  I hasten to add, MLW has corralled a number of posters that are best kept corralled.  Carry on. 

[Charles Anthony]

"Oh, Canada, we stand on guard for thee!"

[drummindiver]

Very hard to follow club threads. Posts are not chronologically the same as forum threads. Can you change that?

[Greg]

3 hours ago, drummindiver said:

Very hard to follow club threads. Posts are not chronologically the same as forum threads. Can you change that?

Agreed.

I'll look into it right now.

[OftenWrong]

Thanks Greg. I think it's an innovative and interesting feature. One thing I would like to ask, is it possible to block seeing new posts from certain clubs, such as clubs that I do not belong to or want to see media content about? I feel it would give me the right as a user not to see certain kinds of content, if I should choose to do so.

ETA - I only mean not seeing them in the "Unread Content" feed. 
http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/discover/unread/ 

But still would be there when you click on Clubs, etc.

Edited December 10, 2017 by OftenWrong

[Altai]

I have asked before but maybe you didnt understand because of my English. 

Could I move my ex-topics into my club ? There are soo much trolls and I want to keep my topics clean. 

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, Altai said:

Could I move my ex-topics into my club ? There are soo much trolls and I want to keep my topics clean. 

Why do you have a club when you just delete every thoughtful post that others put in there ?

[scribblet]

Obviously she wants to spew her hatred of gays et al unfettered by opposition.   

[Michael Hardner]

28 minutes ago, scribblet said:

Obviously she wants to spew her hatred of gays et al unfettered by opposition.   

It does *seem* obvious, but without dialogue we will never know.

[scribblet]

Right...   it isn't fair actually to call someone a 'hater' simply because they disagree with an opinion.  

[Charles Anthony]

On 12/11/2017 at 4:57 AM, Altai said:

Could I move my ex-topics into my club ?

No but you may re-copy your topics into your club. 

[Altai]

9 minutes ago, Charles Anthony said:

No but you may re-copy your topics into your club. 

I think the admin was said that its forbidden to open same topics in forum general and in your club. Anyway.

[Charles Anthony]

21 hours ago, Altai said:

Anyway.

We are trying something new. 

[Greg]

On 2017-12-12 at 11:28 AM, Altai said:

I think the admin was said that its forbidden to open same topics in forum general and in your club. Anyway.

Just PM which threads you want moved, and I will move them into your club. But the threads have to have been started by you - I won't move other's members' threads.

[Argus]

Is Greg the only one who can initiate these clubs?