Where is the NDP

[August1991]

On 10/14/2017 at 3:03 PM, Rue said:

Alice in Wonderland. Need I say more.

Rue,

I reckon that Lemberg was a civilised, functioning city. People of different languages, different religions, different opinions lived together. To choose a modern Leftist American word, no one "dominated".

In Lemberg (like Montreal still today), many unilingual people lived together without any desire to learn the other person's language.

=====

Wonderland? Such is our planet in the future: many people speaking their own language well but able to communicate with others; having various beliefs/opinions, yet living together.

My wonder?

How to make such a world possible - I reckon the Austrian-Hungarian Empire was correct; along with British/French colonialism. The US Constitution is a minor extra touch. 

Edited October 16, 2017 by August1991

[Benz]

@taxme 

August1991 was on the edge of arrogance, but I think he does that because he wants you to bite the dust.

1. You are very wrong. The English and the French people do live along way better than the medias would like you to know. Sometimes you can see an anglo artist adopting the french culture and performs in french language. The french will love them like one of their own. Whenever the french have the occasions to demonstrate how well they speak English, they just do it. Even if the anglo is begging to speak french so he can learn and practice. The majority of the English people are totally ok with the language rules. Only few angryphones are complaining out loud.

2. Toronto speaks English, but so many immigrants speak with so different accents, boring is the appriciation of august1991 and I don't feel like it's relevant to comment.

3. That was true few decades ago. The tensions are not as high now. English are getting use to it and the French do not feel endangered as much as 30 years ago. It still contemporary but, not explosive.

4. The only thing that was bothering the french, is when that some English people and companies were not respecting the french fact. And also, the tendancy from the immigration to choose English over french. With the language policies, it's now impossible to have signs with English only and immigrants must use french public schools. Giving that you can learn pretty good English in french schools, every body are happy and most immigrants are trilingual.

@Rue I agree with alot of things you said. So I will focus on those I don't.

2. Québec is NOT unilingual. Québec has french as official language, but English has a minority status. The English have the rights and their language is protected as well. So English people can have English publics schools and use their language every where. They can communicate with the government in English and the cities having at least 50% of English people, are considered bilingual. Which allows them to function in English as well as in French.

3. "Tourists who do not speak French outside Montreal find themselves faced with hostility when they don't speak French" says who? We never heard of anything like this from anyone. On the contrary. Even if a trourist talks to someone who speaks french only, the local often tries his best to make itself understood. People in the régions usually have a good attitude with the non french speaking tourists. Just as well as most of touristic regions in Canada with non enlish speaking tourists. That said, it might be true that the Québécois will not be as sympthic if they know they deal with an anglo that does not give a **** about the french language.

4. " Parizeau was an anti semite racist pig" are you aware of Something I don't? Can you tell me what he did or said to deserve such accusation?

" Daniel Johnson Jr was a good Premier." he was liberal. His brother Pierre-Marc was péquiste.

"That said French Quebecers fought in WW2 although many were known for resisting the draft like Pierre Trudeau. " yep, he was riding a bicycle with a nazi uniform while Lévesque was correspondant de guerre in Europe during the WW2.

"I have no problems with Quebecois asking me to speak French. No one forced it on me. I wanted to speak French. Its just common courtesy. Most Quebecois I know spoke English. All we minorities left in the late 70's because the economy collapsed and there were no jobs for us and discriminating against non Francophone names was acceptable in those days. ". Come on! Back then, most of the best jobs were owned by English speaking people. When they left, the french took the empty spaces and English and French are getting along pretty well so far. I have anglo workmates and neighbors. I never felt any tension regarding the language with them. Most of the time, we speak french, but I sometimes switch to english as courtesy (or because I do not want to lose it) and they sometimes use english when they are not quiet sure about the translation of their thoughts. I know the medias like to build a bid story about the linguistic conflicts or lorsqu'un agent de la police de la langue se met à errer et outre passer son mandat, but aside that, the relation is pretty good. Unfortunately, English people do not put enough attention to the cultural products from the french culture. It contributes to the 2 solitudes.

 

[Rue]

13 hours ago, Benz said:

@taxme 

August1991 was on the edge of arrogance, but I think he does that because he wants you to bite the dust.

1. You are very wrong. The English and the French people do live along way better than the medias would like you to know. Sometimes you can see an anglo artist adopting the french culture and performs in french language. The french will love them like one of their own. Whenever the french have the occasions to demonstrate how well they speak English, they just do it. Even if the anglo is begging to speak french so he can learn and practice. The majority of the English people are totally ok with the language rules. Only few angryphones are complaining out loud.

2. Toronto speaks English, but so many immigrants speak with so different accents, boring is the appriciation of august1991 and I don't feel like it's relevant to comment.

3. That was true few decades ago. The tensions are not as high now. English are getting use to it and the French do not feel endangered as much as 30 years ago. It still contemporary but, not explosive.

4. The only thing that was bothering the french, is when that some English people and companies were not respecting the french fact. And also, the tendancy from the immigration to choose English over french. With the language policies, it's now impossible to have signs with English only and immigrants must use french public schools. Giving that you can learn pretty good English in french schools, every body are happy and most immigrants are trilingual.

@Rue I agree with alot of things you said. So I will focus on those I don't.

2. Québec is NOT unilingual. Québec has french as official language, but English has a minority status. The English have the rights and their language is protected as well. So English people can have English publics schools and use their language every where. They can communicate with the government in English and the cities having at least 50% of English people, are considered bilingual. Which allows them to function in English as well as in French.

3. "Tourists who do not speak French outside Montreal find themselves faced with hostility when they don't speak French" says who? We never heard of anything like this from anyone. On the contrary. Even if a trourist talks to someone who speaks french only, the local often tries his best to make itself understood. People in the régions usually have a good attitude with the non french speaking tourists. Just as well as most of touristic regions in Canada with non enlish speaking tourists. That said, it might be true that the Québécois will not be as sympthic if they know they deal with an anglo that does not give a **** about the french language.

4. " Parizeau was an anti semite racist pig" are you aware of Something I don't? Can you tell me what he did or said to deserve such accusation?

" Daniel Johnson Jr was a good Premier." he was liberal. His brother Pierre-Marc was péquiste.

"That said French Quebecers fought in WW2 although many were known for resisting the draft like Pierre Trudeau. " yep, he was riding a bicycle with a nazi uniform while Lévesque was correspondant de guerre in Europe during the WW2.

"I have no problems with Quebecois asking me to speak French. No one forced it on me. I wanted to speak French. Its just common courtesy. Most Quebecois I know spoke English. All we minorities left in the late 70's because the economy collapsed and there were no jobs for us and discriminating against non Francophone names was acceptable in those days. ". Come on! Back then, most of the best jobs were owned by English speaking people. When they left, the french took the empty spaces and English and French are getting along pretty well so far. I have anglo workmates and neighbors. I never felt any tension regarding the language with them. Most of the time, we speak french, but I sometimes switch to english as courtesy (or because I do not want to lose it) and they sometimes use english when they are not quiet sure about the translation of their thoughts. I know the medias like to build a bid story about the linguistic conflicts or lorsqu'un agent de la police de la langue se met à errer et outre passer son mandat, but aside that, the relation is pretty good. Unfortunately, English people do not put enough attention to the cultural products from the french culture. It contributes to the 2 solitudes.

 

August arrogant? Lol. Please take that up with him and the Lembergers..

I found your comments interesting and I respect them but what's a debate board without further debate.

So In regards to 3 and 4, come on Benz  you never head of hostlity towards English speaking tourists outside Montreal? I have encountered it and stepped in translating for tourists many many times.

Also  Parizeau was a blatant bigot.  Are you related to him? Come on, you do not remember his speech after  he lost the referendum blaming Jews and English?  I find that hard to believe.

I genuinely have no idea what you mean by your stereotype generalization of "English" people not putting enough attention to the cultural products of the" French" culture. French culture is a pretty wide open category with many Francphone nations and cultures.  Perhaps you would care to explain what cultural products you are talking about and whether you in fact meant French Quebecois cultural products. What are they exactly? Do you mean music or television unique to Quebec or something else? All I know is if you speak French as a mother tonque but you are not Purelaines in fact your French culture is rejected in Quebec. Ask any North Africa, i.e., Tunisian, Moroccan, Algerian, or how about you speak to Haitiens or Africans from Cameroun, Chad, Niger, Ivory Ghost,  Central African Republic, Senegal, Congo, etc., who came to Quebec. You think their French cultural products have been accepted?

As for saying the English had all the jobs that is not true.. English didn't have all the jobs. What you probably meant to say is English were heavily represented in upper management  white collar jobs in, banking, financial institutions and mines. No Jews, Irish, Chinese, Greeks, Italians, blacks, other minorities who spoke English had those jobs any more than many French Quebecers didn't.

 The fact is though  majority of jobs outside the financial sector  have always gone to non Anglos precisely because Anglos have always been a minority outside Montreal as you are well aware and even in Montreal and Hull where they would be concentrated they did not hold the majority of jobs.

In regards to your comments about unilungualism  outside West Montreal and Hull  Quebec was, is  and has always been UNILUNGUAL French. Its never been and never will be bilingual.

Also with due respect this utopia between English and French in Quebec is crap. There has been a tension since 1867 and the constitution which sought to try balance that tension, may in fact unintentionally enshrined it by creatjng two equally conflicted  components.

As for the French in Quebec there identity struggle has always been to be the "maitres chez nous", masters of their own futures

One last comment I stand corrected on the Johnson brothers. I actually meant Pierre Marc Johnson as wel as Rene Levesque being a good Premier. I am able to separate by disliking of seperatism from separatists who were respectful of all Quebecers.

I also told you I have a pronounced bias for the current Premier.

I am not sure what world you live in, but the one I lived in, in Quebec, dealt with discrimination  based not just on language, but skin colour, religion, perceived ethnic status. Its why so many of us minorities left and its why so many French speaking visible minorities in Quebec today like Latinos, Hatiens, North Africans,  other Africans, Vietnamese who speak French, have to watch themselves and are always aware of their secondary status. Don't speak for them or English Quebecers. They and I do feel second class in Quebec and its why I left.  I have zero problem with speaking French. I have major problems how minorities are treated in Quebec in the guise of protecting Quebecois culture..

The world I live in,  English language is reduced to second level status in Quebec and no English don't appreciate that or how we are treated by Purelaines or Quebec separatists. Been there done that with the language police.

Ask a Hatiens or Tunisian, or Morrocan or Algerian, or someone from Senegal, Chad, Niger, Ivory Coast, or other former French colonies what its like living in Quebec. I can not speak for them. You think Purelaines are buying into their French cultural products as you call them?

By the way I would love to know what a a unique Quebecois cultural product is. Other than music or television or film, which I get,  I'd love to hear your examples. By the way you are of course correct if you say the two solitudes in Quebec meant English did not identify with French television or music per se although you'd be surprised how many of us young non Quebecois Quebecers loved French music and art. It transcended the solitudes at times. Certainly Les Canadiens all joking aside, was the ONE Quebecois cultural product everyone bought into. When Maurice Richard symbolized a Quebecer being the best at something in North America and when Les Canadiens won those cups, the Richards, Cournoyer, Beliveau, Bouchard, Geoffion, etc., and Harvey, Morenz, Mahovolich, Worsley, Duff, Robinson, Savard, Lapointe, Harris, we could have cared less whether they were English or French, once the CH went on there was no solitude.

For me its hard to think of specific Quebecois cultural products other than  Les Canadiens, television and music. Don't you dare say smoked meat or bagels. My people brought that to Quebec! Putaines you can have yes. Seriously? I mean there are unique musicians and television programs in Quebec but other then that what would you say?

I found your comments interesting. Appreciate your perspective. You can see I am not anti Quebec at all, but I do think some forms of Quebecois identity border on racism or ethnic intolerance. In regards to the visible minority symbols like the hijab in a weird way I have tried to explain to people it at one level may be intolerant but on another level is meant to apply to all people including Christians so it is too complex to point out as being anti any one culture or religion. 

I think Quebecois have been able to couch certain anti semitic or anti Muslim or anti black sentiments in the name of cultural protection but certainly not all Quebecois.

I also appreciate that Quebecois feel French is in danger of assimilation by all of North America not just Canada.

Well I am not sure if a language law discriminating against English will protect against such assimilation. I believe myself a string culture survives no matter what the laws of the day and of course one natural factor-birth rate of people in that culture.

If Quebecois don;t reproduce no language law will prevent French from common use in Quebec.

Edited October 16, 2017 by Rue

[Charles Anthony]

Folks, 

Please ignore thread drift. 

[PIK]

The major down fall was the language police. That caused so much hatred among the people. Now back to the subject, now what the hell were we talking about?

Edited October 16, 2017 by PIK

[Rue]

Bringing the discussion back to the NDP, may I say to Benz given the opinions I stated above, I would have a hard time believing the new NDP leaser's naivite about his visible minority appearance won't impact on his ability to get votes in Quebec.

I would be curious what you think. Personally my take on all Quebecers French or Englush  including me if I was still there, is we are not uncomfortable about him being Siekh but we are uncomfortable with visible religious symbols and politics mixing and its an unresolved issue in Quebec that crosses the language line. Anglo Quebecois are no different than Franco Quebecois on this issue I think. I don't see that big a difference. It may be different for visible minority Quebecers yes.

I would say this and I mean it with no disrespect to the NDP leader-I think he is naïve if he thinks his formal religious appearance is a modern left wing symbol. To me it is in fact a cultural symbol of orthodoxy and the NDP is supposed to be a socialist party and socialist regimes have traditionally been about worker's rights to good wages and jobs not religious views.

We shall see. My impression having worked as a grievance rep, for  a union and on the other side of the table representing management before unions, is that unions can be quite intolerant towards certain religious beliefs.

Those are just my subjective opinions I concede. I just don't see anyone wearing orthodox religious symbols of any kind doing well in Quebec politics. Interestingly there was a debate that left the cross up on the National Assembly wall, but other than that as you are well aware Benz, Quebec politics detached itself from the Catholic church some say replacing it with a new religion called separatism. I was tempted to say the Catholic connection to government in Quebec was unique, but then it was pretty much the same in Newfoundland and out West in Manitoba foe example.

[PIK]

The new NDP leader took aim at Justin Trudeau's renowned hair, bragging, "I have more hair. It's longer and it's nicer.”

 

So is this what the election will be fought over??

[taxme]

On 10/15/2017 at 10:30 AM, Rue said:

In regards to 1 I am a Habs fan. That would cause me problems.

In regards to 2, BC, Saskatchewan, Alberta Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, PEI as well as Quebec are unilingual.

In regards to 3,  I don' think English is threatened in Canada, North America or across the world. If I were you I would take a laxative though.

In regards to 4,  I do not condone some  of the politics in Quebec and the appeasement by the federal government of Quebec on some policies but my criticism would apply to all political parties equally.

.You like to define whites as endangered but you then exclude from whites all kinds of whites that don't fit your narrow definition of white so I do not take what you say seriously. I also think you interchange the word Anglo for the narrow sub category of whites you really defend. You can call yourself an Anglo, but I only think you speak for neo Nazis and not any other kind of Anglos..

The fears you have of "whites", (you and your neo Nazis pals)  being assimilated, ignores one thing. Its the kind of assimilation happening to other peoples equally.

Yah in your crude terms if the natural progression of assimilation continues, we all eventually will me a caramel mix of all features.

If you were to take every physical characteristic you associate with race and put it in a computer, which Walt Disnbey studios did to come up with Pocahontas for its movie,   in fact looked  like Jennifer Lopez.

I have zero problem with that look. Zero.

 

1. I use to be a great Habs fan for many years when I was growing up in Montreal. But when I left Quebec I started to lose interest in the team. Reason being that all the old players like Cournoyer, Mahovolich and Dryden besides many others that I use to enjoy watching from the sixties and seventies are all gone now. I really enjoyed games between Montreal and Boston. They were great hockey days for me. 

2. Yes, but other than Quebec, none have dared tried to declare themselves unilingual English. The feds would be on their backs like flies on crap if they dared try. Only Quebec was allowed to get away with calling itself unilingual french speaking only. Quebec is the pampered pooch in Canada for the feds, and they must be treated with kid gloves. 

3. When I see what is happening today in Canada with the hundreds of different languages and cultures and traditions coming to Canada these days I won't count on English being the main language in Canada in another few more decades. Hardly any of these new third world people immigrating to Canada need to speak English anymore. They can pretty much live in Canada these days without learning English, and many carry on like they did back home without knowing English. As the Caucasian people die off there can only be one end result. Imagine another few decades added to that. Never say never. This is Canada, don't you know. We aim to please the rest of the world at our expense. Just saying. 

4. Politics in Quebec has always been crooked. And all was well in Ottawa until the francos took that place over. Now Ottawa is just as crooked as Quebec is. They pretty much run and rule Canada now. Whenever Ottawa puts on some display event, like Canada Day as an example, they will always start off in french only. What does that tell you? It is probably very hard now for an English speaking person to get a job with the feds in Ottawa. 

Unfortunately for me there are just too many white people whom I have no use for because they are the ones that seem to not give a dam as to what is happening in Canada these days. When 80% of Canada's new immigrants are coming from the third world, which has been going on for decades now, even a white dummy should be able to figure it out that eventually white people will become the minority in their own country.  

Sure, I am a neo-Nazi and you must be a Jewish supremacist, eh? 

Sure? I am suppose to sit back and say nothing about the changing makeup of this country. No doubt your loyalty most likely belongs to Israel. My loyalty belongs to Canada. So, why should I not show my displeasure of what is going on in Canada? I do not want to watch my grandchildren having to assimilate into another foreign culture that will be of no use or good for them. 

Maybe you are looking forward to the day when Canada starts looking more like the color of caramel but not me. White people founded and worked hard and built up this great white nation. Now that nation is in jeopardy thanks in part to people like you who could careless. I am proud to be a patriotic pro-white activist proud boy. You don't like it, well tough boobies for you. 

Screw Walt Disney. They are one of the many outfits out there that are behind the push to make Canada and the rest of the white world look like caramel. I never did like zero. Ten will work fine for me. 

 

[PIK]

If you are proud to be a white canadian , you are racist and how did we allow that. Dumb white people? So eager to please people that hate you. This country should have been a example of how to run a country, but the trudeaus have decided screw that, just come here and vote liberal.

Edited October 16, 2017 by PIK

[taxme]

5 minutes ago, PIK said:

If you are proud to be a white canadian , you are racist and how did we allow that. Dumb white people? So eager to please people that hate you. This country should have been a example of how to run a country, but the trudeaus have decided screw that, just come here and vote liberal.

White people really are their own worse enemy. The majority of those bleeding heart guilt ridden wimpy white liberals have no idea of what loyalty to one's own race actually means. They have been dumb downed for decades now into believing that they are and always will be the problem so hence I must support my extinction as a white person to make up for all my past so-called white sins.

I once watched on the internet this one religion that had it's minister and his flock get down on their knees in front of a bunch of black people and begged them for forgiveness for past white man's sins done to them. It was sick and sad to look at. This is what white people have become now. They grovel instead of standing on their own two feet and stand up for who they are. The white people of today have nothing to be sorry for because they were not around at the time and did not commit all of the things that went on two hundred years ago. Just because one says that one is proud of who they are does not have to mean that they are a racist. Racist has become an overplayed word. It is only used to shut old whitey down, and many old whitey's keeps falling for it all the time. 

Trudeau should be fired for what he did by inviting the rest of the world to come on over to Canada and walk right on in. Apparently, 66% of all those criminal illegals that entered Canada illegally are here to stay. New liberal voters for sure. Some of those illegals flew to America with the intentions of heading for Canada. And then they call people like me racist or Nazi for pointing this out. Incredible. 

 

[Benz]

13 hours ago, Rue said:

August arrogant? Lol. Please take that up with him and the Lembergers..

I found your comments interesting and I respect them but what's a debate board without further debate.

So In regards to 3 and 4, come on Benz  you never head of hostlity towards English speaking tourists outside Montreal? I have encountered it and stepped in translating for tourists many many times.

Also  Parizeau was a blatant bigot.  Are you related to him? Come on, you do not remember his speech after  he lost the referendum blaming Jews and English?  I find that hard to believe.

I genuinely have no idea what you mean by your stereotype generalization of "English" people not putting enough attention to the cultural products of the" French" culture. French culture is a pretty wide open category with many Francphone nations and cultures.  Perhaps you would care to explain what cultural products you are talking about and whether you in fact meant French Quebecois cultural products. What are they exactly? Do you mean music or television unique to Quebec or something else? All I know is if you speak French as a mother tonque but you are not Purelaines in fact your French culture is rejected in Quebec. Ask any North Africa, i.e., Tunisian, Moroccan, Algerian, or how about you speak to Haitiens or Africans from Cameroun, Chad, Niger, Ivory Ghost,  Central African Republic, Senegal, Congo, etc., who came to Quebec. You think their French cultural products have been accepted?

As for saying the English had all the jobs that is not true.. English didn't have all the jobs. What you probably meant to say is English were heavily represented in upper management  white collar jobs in, banking, financial institutions and mines. No Jews, Irish, Chinese, Greeks, Italians, blacks, other minorities who spoke English had those jobs any more than many French Quebecers didn't.

 The fact is though  majority of jobs outside the financial sector  have always gone to non Anglos precisely because Anglos have always been a minority outside Montreal as you are well aware and even in Montreal and Hull where they would be concentrated they did not hold the majority of jobs.

In regards to your comments about unilungualism  outside West Montreal and Hull  Quebec was, is  and has always been UNILUNGUAL French. Its never been and never will be bilingual.

Also with due respect this utopia between English and French in Quebec is crap. There has been a tension since 1867 and the constitution which sought to try balance that tension, may in fact unintentionally enshrined it by creatjng two equally conflicted  components.

As for the French in Quebec there identity struggle has always been to be the "maitres chez nous", masters of their own futures

One last comment I stand corrected on the Johnson brothers. I actually meant Pierre Marc Johnson as wel as Rene Levesque being a good Premier. I am able to separate by disliking of seperatism from separatists who were respectful of all Quebecers.

I also told you I have a pronounced bias for the current Premier.

I am not sure what world you live in, but the one I lived in, in Quebec, dealt with discrimination  based not just on language, but skin colour, religion, perceived ethnic status. Its why so many of us minorities left and its why so many French speaking visible minorities in Quebec today like Latinos, Hatiens, North Africans,  other Africans, Vietnamese who speak French, have to watch themselves and are always aware of their secondary status. Don't speak for them or English Quebecers. They and I do feel second class in Quebec and its why I left.  I have zero problem with speaking French. I have major problems how minorities are treated in Quebec in the guise of protecting Quebecois culture..

The world I live in,  English language is reduced to second level status in Quebec and no English don't appreciate that or how we are treated by Purelaines or Quebec separatists. Been there done that with the language police.

Ask a Hatiens or Tunisian, or Morrocan or Algerian, or someone from Senegal, Chad, Niger, Ivory Coast, or other former French colonies what its like living in Quebec. I can not speak for them. You think Purelaines are buying into their French cultural products as you call them?

By the way I would love to know what a a unique Quebecois cultural product is. Other than music or television or film, which I get,  I'd love to hear your examples. By the way you are of course correct if you say the two solitudes in Quebec meant English did not identify with French television or music per se although you'd be surprised how many of us young non Quebecois Quebecers loved French music and art. It transcended the solitudes at times. Certainly Les Canadiens all joking aside, was the ONE Quebecois cultural product everyone bought into. When Maurice Richard symbolized a Quebecer being the best at something in North America and when Les Canadiens won those cups, the Richards, Cournoyer, Beliveau, Bouchard, Geoffion, etc., and Harvey, Morenz, Mahovolich, Worsley, Duff, Robinson, Savard, Lapointe, Harris, we could have cared less whether they were English or French, once the CH went on there was no solitude.

For me its hard to think of specific Quebecois cultural products other than  Les Canadiens, television and music. Don't you dare say smoked meat or bagels. My people brought that to Quebec! Putaines you can have yes. Seriously? I mean there are unique musicians and television programs in Quebec but other then that what would you say?

I found your comments interesting. Appreciate your perspective. You can see I am not anti Quebec at all, but I do think some forms of Quebecois identity border on racism or ethnic intolerance. In regards to the visible minority symbols like the hijab in a weird way I have tried to explain to people it at one level may be intolerant but on another level is meant to apply to all people including Christians so it is too complex to point out as being anti any one culture or religion. 

I think Quebecois have been able to couch certain anti semitic or anti Muslim or anti black sentiments in the name of cultural protection but certainly not all Quebecois.

I also appreciate that Quebecois feel French is in danger of assimilation by all of North America not just Canada.

Well I am not sure if a language law discriminating against English will protect against such assimilation. I believe myself a string culture survives no matter what the laws of the day and of course one natural factor-birth rate of people in that culture.

If Quebecois don;t reproduce no language law will prevent French from common use in Quebec.

I sincerly did not witness hostility, or at least not systematic hostility toward non french tourists outside Montréal. However, I am french, so it is very possible that what you say happen more often than I am aware of. So I will not deny what you say, I am just telling you that most of the time, tourists do not resent any hostility outside Montréal. Québec has a good reputation for tourism, even among unilingual English speaking people.

Jacques Parizeau said "à cause de l'argent et le vote ethnique".  Parizeau blamed the no side to cheat with the rules of the campain regarding the money. He also blamed the non pure laine for massively vote no. The majority of the sovereignists like me did blame him for that. Although the facts are right, the blame is wrong. Well at least for the ethnic. Parizeau did not do the required efforts to win the support of the non pure laines. He should blame himself instead for not doing the necessary to be convincing. Instead of just blame them plain and simple. That said, there is no mention of the jews or anything anti-semite at all. That is why I am asking you where you could have seen or heard of anything like that. I do not even remember hear him say the word jew. Perhaps you are mixing up with Yves Michaud?

Regarding the lack of french cultural products consumed by the anglos... (I do not know why you think it is relevant to mention a french african, because I have put the focus on English canadians, not the australians or else... anyway)... I prefer to invite you to listen at the interview of Mitch Garber (a jewish anglo) at the tv show Tout le monde en parle. I totally agree with him, including his critics on the needs for french Québécois to learn English language. Listen to the 6 first minutes of this interview:

"I think Quebecois have been able to couch certain anti semitic or anti Muslim or anti black sentiments in the name of cultural protection but certainly not all Quebecois."

Do you think there is one place in this world that does not have their anti-minorities? Québec is no different. The majority of people are not like that, but it's always the angry minority that are the most noisy. It's the same in English Canada. Here, we hear about the anti-Québécois and the anti-french. We do not hear from the silent majority that appreciates Québec and the french. Blame the medias for that. Québec is an inclusive society that welcome alot of immigrants  and even if Québec some days seperates from Canada, it will continue to be like this.

Language laws are NOT discriminating English language. Get over it. You can have signs in English. The law only forces you to have the french translation and predominent. If the English language would be forbiden, then and only then you could complain about discrimination. Same for the schools. All English Quebecers are allowed to go to English schools. No discrimination there. The victimization has to stop. You fool no one outside English Canada.

 

PS: Sorry Charles Anthony. We will try to not abuse of the off topic.

[Rue]

5 hours ago, Benz said:

I sincerly did not witness hostility, or at least not systematic hostility toward non french tourists outside Montréal. However, I am french, so it is very possible that what you say happen more often than I am aware of. So I will not deny what you say, I am just telling you that most of the time, tourists do not resent any hostility outside Montréal. Québec has a good reputation for tourism, even among unilingual English speaking people.

Jacques Parizeau said "à cause de l'argent et le vote ethnique".  Parizeau blamed the no side to cheat with the rules of the campain regarding the money. He also blamed the non pure laine for massively vote no. The majority of the sovereignists like me did blame him for that. Although the facts are right, the blame is wrong. Well at least for the ethnic. Parizeau did not do the required efforts to win the support of the non pure laines. He should blame himself instead for not doing the necessary to be convincing. Instead of just blame them plain and simple. That said, there is no mention of the jews or anything anti-semite at all. That is why I am asking you where you could have seen or heard of anything like that. I do not even remember hear him say the word jew. Perhaps you are mixing up with Yves Michaud?

Regarding the lack of french cultural products consumed by the anglos... (I do not know why you think it is relevant to mention a french african, because I have put the focus on English canadians, not the australians or else... anyway)... I prefer to invite you to listen at the interview of Mitch Garber (a jewish anglo) at the tv show Tout le monde en parle. I totally agree with him, including his critics on the needs for french Québécois to learn English language. Listen to the 6 first minutes of this interview:

"I think Quebecois have been able to couch certain anti semitic or anti Muslim or anti black sentiments in the name of cultural protection but certainly not all Quebecois."

Do you think there is one place in this world that does not have their anti-minorities? Québec is no different. The majority of people are not like that, but it's always the angry minority that are the most noisy. It's the same in English Canada. Here, we hear about the anti-Québécois and the anti-french. We do not hear from the silent majority that appreciates Québec and the french. Blame the medias for that. Québec is an inclusive society that welcome alot of immigrants  and even if Québec some days seperates from Canada, it will continue to be like this.

Language laws are NOT discriminating English language. Get over it. You can have signs in English. The law only forces you to have the french translation and predominent. If the English language would be forbiden, then and only then you could complain about discrimination. Same for the schools. All English Quebecers are allowed to go to English schools. No discrimination there. The victimization has to stop. You fool no one outside English Canada.

 

PS: Sorry Charles Anthony. We will try to not abuse of the off topic.

Ah but did you get a point off forever like I did for responding to your comments earlier? Lol. Good response. Enjoyed your attempt to try spin what Parizeau said. You are his nephew admit it. Lol. Gimme a break on that puffed pseuto Parisenne bigot.

As for feeling the need to quote a Jew when responding to me don't bother. Your opinions are good enough for me. The fact the person you quoted is Jewish is not relevant to his opinion-only his opinion and yours are relevant to me which brings me back to the NDP leader. He has deliberately in my opinion taken advantage of his religious identity when its suitable to him such as assuming he should get all the visible minority votes by being a visible minority. Now when he is asked where he stands within his community on the Air India bombing he called it a racist question? Why? My dear and close friend Taxme always assumes because I am a Jew my loyalty to Israel comes first. In fact I believe he has a right to ask and push me on it. Fair is fair. Assuming I would put Canada first in itself is a presumptious bigoted assumption. Challenging me on my words that may appear to put Canadian and Israeli policies in direct conflict he has a right. Then again he calls himself pro Canada but has on this board excluded most Canadians from the definition of the Canadian he supports.

Now in regards to the angry minority comment you made in Quebec and anti minorities, I tend to agree with you. I am not about to smeer all Quebecois as bigots because of a vocal minority. Its why I made a point to you of saying complementary things about Levesque and Johnson. Fair is fair. There are some Pequistes that were not bigots but genuinely Quebecois nationals first. I appreciate there can be a difference but you have to understand my perception would be different than yours for obvious reasons. Then again I concede to you, I do not have the same perception of my identity being endangered as perhaps you would being aFrench Quebecer. Fair is fair we are both in that sense feeling at times as if our identities are in question.

That said and herein is the irony, you do realize how well Quebecois do outside Quebec. I mean sure someone like Celine Dion assimilates but you know what else I mean. Now will Quebecois to do well outside Quebec be assimilated. I just don't know. I do know with we Jews, assimilation as in the case of all minorities is inevitable if humanity lasts long enough.

For now though we have some clashes between minorities and I think the NDP leader is not going to do well in Quebec. He wants to play up his right to be visibly religious and ethnic but then if asked questions whether that comes into conflict with certain political concepts he was quick to play the race card. The press and the public have a right to test his loyalty to see if it conflicts with Canadian values. To just assume his orthodox religious beliefs are compatible and adapt an arrogant tone about it is going to blow up in his face. Every Jewish politician is accused of being  a Zionist. Every Muslim politician is questioned about that. Its part of the game. To appoint a Somali refugee as Immigration Minister opened him up to questions as to whether he can be conflict free dealing with the refugee dossier let alone illegal Somalis. Its fair game. You know Quebecers-in their own weird way no one is getting a free card French or English.  If he wants to be a visible minority in Quebec its not going to win him votes and once he gets outside large cities with visible minority politicians he has to expect questions about his identity and be prepared to answer them over and over even if they make wrongful assumptions. Its part of  being a public figure.

I personally believe he manipulates his identity to suit him and I don't buy it. I don't like his smarmy assumption people must assume because he's a visible minority it provides no conflicts. Bull crap. This man stood up in the Ontario provincial parliamenet and supported the BDS movement and militant Muslims causing a rift in his own community. His leftist policies select certain causes and exclude others. He is remarkably ignorant on many cultures reflecting his sheltered environment and lack of work experience and living in a cacoon most of his life.

We have no shortage of these sheltered soft boys running in politics these days Morneau and Trudeay the trust fund puff pastries are bad enough, now we have a Punjabi puff pastry  full of himself and brought up to believe his shit don't stunk as well.

Privileged elitist politics. I don't like it. You know why I liked Levesque-because he was a legitimate WW2 war correspondent. He hot his hands dirty and his psyche damaged from what he witnessed. That's a real man. Pierre Trudeau who was my MP I admitted his Jesuit logic, his ability to transcend minorities and not pander to us, but he never understood the working class.

Mulroney on the other hand, even though he was supposedly a conservative, played the game. He knew how to bribe and get people on side in Quebec-he was not above getting down with unions and blue collar types.

I am not saying Mulroney or Trudeau were any better then one another but I am saying I think Mulroney understood labour politics a hell of a lot better than Trudeau did. Mulroney was at the table bargaining, Trudeau joined a picket line wearing a cashmere sweater and sandals for a brief sorte with the masses.

I just think a pretty boy in a 2000 suit in Quebec aint gonna work.

[Benz]

2 hours ago, Rue said:

Ah but did you get a point off forever like I did for responding to your comments earlier? Lol. Good response. Enjoyed your attempt to try spin what Parizeau said. You are his nephew admit it. Lol. Gimme a break on that puffed pseuto Parisenne bigot.

As for feeling the need to quote a Jew when responding to me don't bother. Your opinions are good enough for me. The fact the person you quoted is Jewish is not relevant to his opinion-only his opinion and yours are relevant to me which brings me back to the NDP leader. He has deliberately in my opinion taken advantage of his religious identity when its suitable to him such as assuming he should get all the visible minority votes by being a visible minority. Now when he is asked where he stands within his community on the Air India bombing he called it a racist question? Why? My dear and close friend Taxme always assumes because I am a Jew my loyalty to Israel comes first. In fact I believe he has a right to ask and push me on it. Fair is fair. Assuming I would put Canada first in itself is a presumptious bigoted assumption. Challenging me on my words that may appear to put Canadian and Israeli policies in direct conflict he has a right. Then again he calls himself pro Canada but has on this board excluded most Canadians from the definition of the Canadian he supports.

Now in regards to the angry minority comment you made in Quebec and anti minorities, I tend to agree with you. I am not about to smeer all Quebecois as bigots because of a vocal minority. Its why I made a point to you of saying complementary things about Levesque and Johnson. Fair is fair. There are some Pequistes that were not bigots but genuinely Quebecois nationals first. I appreciate there can be a difference but you have to understand my perception would be different than yours for obvious reasons. Then again I concede to you, I do not have the same perception of my identity being endangered as perhaps you would being aFrench Quebecer. Fair is fair we are both in that sense feeling at times as if our identities are in question.

That said and herein is the irony, you do realize how well Quebecois do outside Quebec. I mean sure someone like Celine Dion assimilates but you know what else I mean. Now will Quebecois to do well outside Quebec be assimilated. I just don't know. I do know with we Jews, assimilation as in the case of all minorities is inevitable if humanity lasts long enough.

For now though we have some clashes between minorities and I think the NDP leader is not going to do well in Quebec. He wants to play up his right to be visibly religious and ethnic but then if asked questions whether that comes into conflict with certain political concepts he was quick to play the race card. The press and the public have a right to test his loyalty to see if it conflicts with Canadian values. To just assume his orthodox religious beliefs are compatible and adapt an arrogant tone about it is going to blow up in his face. Every Jewish politician is accused of being  a Zionist. Every Muslim politician is questioned about that. Its part of the game. To appoint a Somali refugee as Immigration Minister opened him up to questions as to whether he can be conflict free dealing with the refugee dossier let alone illegal Somalis. Its fair game. You know Quebecers-in their own weird way no one is getting a free card French or English.  If he wants to be a visible minority in Quebec its not going to win him votes and once he gets outside large cities with visible minority politicians he has to expect questions about his identity and be prepared to answer them over and over even if they make wrongful assumptions. Its part of  being a public figure.

I personally believe he manipulates his identity to suit him and I don't buy it. I don't like his smarmy assumption people must assume because he's a visible minority it provides no conflicts. Bull crap. This man stood up in the Ontario provincial parliamenet and supported the BDS movement and militant Muslims causing a rift in his own community. His leftist policies select certain causes and exclude others. He is remarkably ignorant on many cultures reflecting his sheltered environment and lack of work experience and living in a cacoon most of his life.

We have no shortage of these sheltered soft boys running in politics these days Morneau and Trudeay the trust fund puff pastries are bad enough, now we have a Punjabi puff pastry  full of himself and brought up to believe his shit don't stunk as well.

Privileged elitist politics. I don't like it. You know why I liked Levesque-because he was a legitimate WW2 war correspondent. He hot his hands dirty and his psyche damaged from what he witnessed. That's a real man. Pierre Trudeau who was my MP I admitted his Jesuit logic, his ability to transcend minorities and not pander to us, but he never understood the working class.

Mulroney on the other hand, even though he was supposedly a conservative, played the game. He knew how to bribe and get people on side in Quebec-he was not above getting down with unions and blue collar types.

I am not saying Mulroney or Trudeau were any better then one another but I am saying I think Mulroney understood labour politics a hell of a lot better than Trudeau did. Mulroney was at the table bargaining, Trudeau joined a picket line wearing a cashmere sweater and sandals for a brief sorte with the masses.

I just think a pretty boy in a 2000 suit in Quebec aint gonna work.

 

Don't be childish regarding Parizeau. My answer remains, so is my question. What does Parizeau said or did regarding the Jews? As I said, he blamed the ethnics for voting No. He was wrong, because he should have blamed himself for not doing the necessary to be convincing. He did not Attack anyone with racist comments or discriminations. If he did, inform me. I must have miss something. I admired Lévesque. He was transparent, open and trust worthy. Parizeau always left me with doubts. Like if he has something in mind that he is hiding from us. He was also a little bit stubborn, although he was capable to give up when it became obvious that it was in his best interest. After he dismiss, he was that typical step mom always saying something that light ups fire. Each time he opened his month, alot of sovereignists were praying that he does not say that would force the PQ to do damage control. Neverthenless, Parizeau is very intelligent and he was also admired by alot of sovereignists for what he accomplished. It is ridiculous that you say I behave like I am his nephew. I blame him for that phrase he said on that night. It has caused alot of damages for the sovereignist movement for many years. But if you think that the fact that he blamed the ethnics for voting no, is enough to insert him into the anti semetic bag, then you are very wrong about that. You are no better than Singh accusing anyone who challenge his loyalty of being racist or such.

Do you agree with what Mitch Garber said?

I am very aware of the opinion of Taxme regarding you. He is abig boy. He can defend himself. For me, judaism is just another religion like any others. Israel is a nation. One can be a jew and not as much to go with Israel. I have work for 3 years in a Israeli company having a branch based in Montréal. So I saw all kind of jews. The pro israeli ones as much as those who criticize Israel policies. The very stereotyped traditional jews as much as the liberal ones that are clearly canadians (or even Québécois). So, unlike Taxme, I beleive you are very capable to stay loyal to your canadian nation. You should not be taxed of being loyal to Israel rather than Canada, if you agree more with the position of Israel than the one of Canada regarding a topic. I am not really a fan of the "either you are with us or with them" mindset.

Regarding Singh, I totally agree with you. He will be challenged, at least in Québec, for showing off his religion like that. However, he will be contested for the ostentatiory of his religion, not his faith in his religion, not his origins. If he thinks he can blame us and build a guilt trip on a discrimination toward his minority image, he won't have the expected results here. We do not buy such crap. I do not know him much. I do not know if he will hypocritely attempt to play that vcitimization card or if will stay put with the topic. We will see. But from the little I know so far, it does not look good for him. That said, there are probably few of his policies that I could agree with him. But I will never vote for someone that is not capable to seperate its religious practices from its political functions.

Mulroney was brilliant. I am not conservative and there are alot of his policies that I did not agree with him, but he knew what he was doing and he was good at it. He had a good understanding of the big picture.

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by Benz

[blackbird]

On 10/11/2017 at 10:33 AM, PIK said:

Party of the people ,party of the worker, do they agree with trudeau or not??

The Federal NDP and Quebec Liberals want to put a tax on Netflix which is estimated would increase the price of Netflix by $2.00 a month.

[eyeball]

5 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The Federal NDP and Quebec Liberals want to put a tax on Netflix which is estimated would increase the price of Netflix by $2.00 a month.

Oh the humanity.

[Benz]

6 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The Federal NDP and Quebec Liberals want to put a tax on Netflix which is estimated would increase the price of Netflix by $2.00 a month.

That is what the Libs should have done.

[blackbird]

8 minutes ago, Benz said:

That is what the Libs should have done.

It's all part of their anti-Americanism and making people pay a premium for watching any movies not made in Canada or Quebec.  It's probably only the tip of the iceberg of what they would do if they were able.

[taxme]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

It's all part of their anti-Americanism and making people pay a premium for watching any movies not made in Canada or Quebec.  It's probably only the tip of the iceberg of what they would do if they were able.

Both trudeaus and liberalism has shown us all has to how to destroy a great WASP country and it's culture and traditions, and work to replace it with a third world and gay agenda looking country. Decency, morality and honesty have been replaced by immorality, indecency and lies galore. I am afraid to say it but Canada's iceberg has tipped over and trudeau has two more years to totally sink Canada's iceberg for good. Aw well. 

[Rue]

Benz I probably agree yes with what Garber and you say but I am reluctant to say who should speak French or English. I was brought up and always will believe they are equal languages of Canada and I should know both, I envy anyone who is good with languages.

I pretty  much agree with all of what you say really except for Parizeau. When asked to clarify his ethnique comment he said was referring to Greeks, Italians and Jews. All 3 of us knew that and we knew damn well he always hated our communities and hate is not a strong word.  He did. He openly chastised us for being who we were. In fact when he made his clarification as to which ethnic groups he meant, he skipped the Chinese who believe me he insulted and applauded when they pulled down the signs in Chinatown. He also made a point of singling out 12 ridings in Cote St. Luc for voting no, he singled them out because that's where the Jews were. So let's not down play his bigotry and its against Italians, Greeks, Jews, Chinese, English speaking minorities of all kinds too, yes. I heard and read his speeches no different than you. He was a demagogue playing divisive politics. Hated him. Tell you what though you will not see me label Quebecois for him. That is b.s., just a wing of the party.

I am in my heart sympathetic to Quebec culture. I was  born in it and like it not withstanding my Moredcai Richler sense of humour. I was brought up to be bilingual bicultural. Truthfully the no. of anti semitic incidents I experienced were more likely from Anglophones than Francophones, but either way it was no big deal. All minorities went through that and still do. Well I say no big deal, maybe it was some days but I mean I don't feel victimized by it and I considered the anti-Semitic crap I did put up with no different than the people calling French Quebecers pepsis and frogs. I grew up in an Irish neighbourhood. Everybody taunted everybody as a test, then you fought, got up and were friends and that included the French Quebecers we played hockey against. We all were united by hockey that is the honest truth. I joke its Les Canadiens who were the Chosen Ones not us Hebrews. I have always argued the Habs were and are God's team. Now I have to put up with Leafs fans. They finally have a promising team and may be led out of the wilderness but the Leaf's are Satan's team. Well no I guess the Flames are. Anyways let's see what happens in Quebec with the NDP. If they give him a hard time its going to be the way they would give a hard time to anyone visible with religious symbols. People have to understand Quebecois don't  like ANY religious symbols. I doubt today you would find Quebecois voting for Priests if they ran for office. The province went through a lot of anghst distancing itself from the Catholic Church in politics. People should understand its a distancing from ALL religions not just Catholicism but I leave or defer that to you. Other than a minority of ultra  orthodox Jews still in Outremont the majority of Jews still in Montreal are not orthodox  so would not appear visible. I am not sure how I would feel as a Muslim or Jew who is visibly wearing noticeable garments, clothes. I think I would be  nervous. Then again I would love to ask whether nuns feel they get dirty looks or stared at as well in Quebec these days. As for the discrimination, I have to agree with you some of it just is like it is everywhere and has nothing to do with Quebec culture and everything to do with human nature. That is a very valid point and one I am not sure the NDP leader may grasp, maybe he will. I mean maybe he does have the last laugh in Quebec-I just find having lived there, Quebecers want very blunt, straight shooting politicians. They hate bafflegab. Parizeau never resonated with his grassroots Pequistes. His feigned academic Parisenne drawl was ridiculed by Quebecois and France French people equally.

Mulroney knew how to play Quebec because he got down and dirty with the people in Quebec. He was far more bicultural than Trudeau as much as I respected Trudeau's Jesuit logic and ability to walk through ethnic divisions. Trudeau was not for the average guy in Quebec just us minorities and I think a privileged class in Quebec. I don't think he could connect with blue collar Quebec. Few have been able to. I think although I again defer to you on that, I think Layton may have in his own way.

The guy I have not mentioned is Lucien Bouchard. There was a lot about him I liked and some about him I  hated. Very difficult man to follow at times with his love-hate relationship with his own Quebecois identity. He was someone I leave tpo French Quebecers to define-I just will say I don't think any of us minorities considered him anti minority  or  bigoted like Parizeau. He wasn't. He tried his best to bring in minorities to the PQ.  Besides he hated Parizeau which makes him a good man. Lol. Back to the new NDP guy he does not speak French. Let's see how fast he can learn it.

[blackbird]

7 hours ago, Benz said:

That is what the Libs should have done.

I would also say we would all be better off with less government.  Less command and control, smaller government means less taxes.  Liberals and NDP mean more government, more taxes.  Liberals think they can social engineer Canada to their version of what they think everyone should think like and what we should watch for entertainment, such as the CBC.  The internet gives everyone access to the world and countless videos produced in many countries now.  We shouldn't be taxed for watching that.  It's a matter of personal freedom.

[eyeball]

I think I'd I'd prefer the anarchy of a good old fashioned completely natural interregnum as opposed to the retarded chaos presently unfolding around us.

Burn it to the ground and start from scratch.

[peoples advocate]

there is no party of the people in this country.

[eyeball]

Oh well, so long as there's still people partying.

[blackbird]

23 hours ago, Rue said:

Benz I probably agree yes with what Garber and you say but I am reluctant to say who should speak French or English. I was brought up and always will believe they are equal languages of Canada and I should know both, I envy anyone who is good with languages.

I pretty  much agree with all of what you say really except for Parizeau. When asked to clarify his ethnique comment he said was referring to Greeks, Italians and Jews. All 3 of us knew that and we knew damn well he always hated our communities and hate is not a strong word.  He did. He openly chastised us for being who we were. In fact when he made his clarification as to which ethnic groups he meant, he skipped the Chinese who believe me he insulted and applauded when they pulled down the signs in Chinatown. He also made a point of singling out 12 ridings in Cote St. Luc for voting no, he singled them out because that's where the Jews were. So let's not down play his bigotry and its against Italians, Greeks, Jews, Chinese, English speaking minorities of all kinds too, yes. I heard and read his speeches no different than you. He was a demagogue playing divisive politics. Hated him. Tell you what though you will not see me label Quebecois for him. That is b.s., just a wing of the party.

I am in my heart sympathetic to Quebec culture. I was  born in it and like it not withstanding my Moredcai Richler sense of humour. I was brought up to be bilingual bicultural. Truthfully the no. of anti semitic incidents I experienced were more likely from Anglophones than Francophones, but either way it was no big deal. All minorities went through that and still do. Well I say no big deal, maybe it was some days but I mean I don't feel victimized by it and I considered the anti-Semitic crap I did put up with no different than the people calling French Quebecers pepsis and frogs. I grew up in an Irish neighbourhood. Everybody taunted everybody as a test, then you fought, got up and were friends and that included the French Quebecers we played hockey against. We all were united by hockey that is the honest truth. I joke its Les Canadiens who were the Chosen Ones not us Hebrews. I have always argued the Habs were and are God's team. Now I have to put up with Leafs fans. They finally have a promising team and may be led out of the wilderness but the Leaf's are Satan's team. Well no I guess the Flames are. Anyways let's see what happens in Quebec with the NDP. If they give him a hard time its going to be the way they would give a hard time to anyone visible with religious symbols. People have to understand Quebecois don't  like ANY religious symbols. I doubt today you would find Quebecois voting for Priests if they ran for office. The province went through a lot of anghst distancing itself from the Catholic Church in politics. People should understand its a distancing from ALL religions not just Catholicism but I leave or defer that to you. Other than a minority of ultra  orthodox Jews still in Outremont the majority of Jews still in Montreal are not orthodox  so would not appear visible. I am not sure how I would feel as a Muslim or Jew who is visibly wearing noticeable garments, clothes. I think I would be  nervous. Then again I would love to ask whether nuns feel they get dirty looks or stared at as well in Quebec these days. As for the discrimination, I have to agree with you some of it just is like it is everywhere and has nothing to do with Quebec culture and everything to do with human nature. That is a very valid point and one I am not sure the NDP leader may grasp, maybe he will. I mean maybe he does have the last laugh in Quebec-I just find having lived there, Quebecers want very blunt, straight shooting politicians. They hate bafflegab. Parizeau never resonated with his grassroots Pequistes. His feigned academic Parisenne drawl was ridiculed by Quebecois and France French people equally.

Mulroney knew how to play Quebec because he got down and dirty with the people in Quebec. He was far more bicultural than Trudeau as much as I respected Trudeau's Jesuit logic and ability to walk through ethnic divisions. Trudeau was not for the average guy in Quebec just us minorities and I think a privileged class in Quebec. I don't think he could connect with blue collar Quebec. Few have been able to. I think although I again defer to you on that, I think Layton may have in his own way.

The guy I have not mentioned is Lucien Bouchard. There was a lot about him I liked and some about him I  hated. Very difficult man to follow at times with his love-hate relationship with his own Quebecois identity. He was someone I leave tpo French Quebecers to define-I just will say I don't think any of us minorities considered him anti minority  or  bigoted like Parizeau. He wasn't. He tried his best to bring in minorities to the PQ.  Besides he hated Parizeau which makes him a good man. Lol. Back to the new NDP guy he does not speak French. Let's see how fast he can learn it.

Personally I am not opposed to French or Quebec.  I had a couple close personal friends years ago whose primary tongue was French.  I have read some of Quebec's history although my memory and reading comprehension is not that great;  so probably have forgotten a lot of it. 

One of my close friends was a French Canadian who grew up in a French community (Beausejour) near Winnipeg and the other was visiting for a few years from Paris.  I was very fortunate to get to know these gentlemen.

Politicians are another kettle of fish.  Left-leaning and liberals have their own agenda.  For some reason they think they know what is best for the rest of Canadians as far as what we believe and how we should think.  As an example, I received an E-mail which quote a couple statements from Trudeau which reveal some of his thinking.

"Justin Trudeau's recent statement that "Canada is the world's first post national State" and "Canada has no core values" is a precise expression of the values of George Soros and his "Open Borders Society". "

 

[Argus]

16 hours ago, peoples advocate said:

there is no party of the people in this country.

What people?