Argus Posted September 20, 2017 Report Share Posted September 20, 2017 (edited) It seems that if you make more than $250k a year you're rich, and any tax breaks you receive are horrific and unconscionable and damaging to the entire social fabric of Canada! Unless you're the prime minister, of course. Then it's perfectly fine to use tax breaks for yourself and your family. Nobody quite knows how much Trudeau is worth because of all the careful games he's been playing to hide his wealth. He owns full or partial interest in several numbered accounts as well as land, family trusts, offshore accounts, and personal corporations, and nobody knows how much he pays in tax - if anything. But his PM salary is $340k to start. I wonder if he has to declare that he gets free housing, groceries, heating, hydro, phone service and transportation? On top of that he has millions in assets bringing in nobody knows how much more. And when asked about it, he avoids answering. Now ain't that just like those filthy rich people? https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/trudeau-dodges-questions-about-taxes-on-his-family-wealth/article36319389/ Edited September 20, 2017 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted September 20, 2017 Report Share Posted September 20, 2017 Trudeau said his position is different and we are supposed to believe him. He thinks everyone is stupid, but it is only the ones that voted for him. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted September 20, 2017 Report Share Posted September 20, 2017 He stepped in deep doodoo when he said he was not involved in the management of the "family fortune". (He must have bit his tongue hard after he used those terms.) Being the beneficiary to a family fortune places him in the very best position to close legal venues for the wealthy as they attempt to lower their tax rate, since his financial advisers use those very same advantages to lower his own taxes payable. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribblet Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 Trudeau owns numbered companies so he appears to be very happy to to use private corporations to shield him from taxes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, scribblet said: Trudeau owns numbered companies so he appears to be very happy to to use private corporations to shield him from taxes. What does that mean? Is this different from other PMs or ... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 28 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: What does that mean? Is this different from other PMs or ... ? It means he is a wealthy man who uses tax 'loopholes' to shield as much of his wealth from taxes as possible while calling out much less wealthy people and taking away their shield. Why should family trusts be able to shield income? Do poor people need family trusts for their wealth? How many numbered and oversees accounts does he have? How many does Morneau have? If we're to make things 'fair' shouldn't the 'tax loopholes' they use be closed? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 24 minutes ago, Argus said: It means he is a wealthy man who uses tax 'loopholes' to shield as much of his wealth from taxes as possible while calling out much less wealthy people and taking away their shield I was asking for details. Lots of PMs owned corporations, and how is this different from them or other Canadians ? 24 minutes ago, Argus said: Why should family trusts be able to shield income? Do poor people need family trusts for their wealth? How many numbered and oversees accounts does he have? How many does Morneau have? If we're to make things 'fair' shouldn't the 'tax loopholes' they use be closed? Ok... "family trusts" "overseas accounts". Yes, now I get it. Your specificity is what the discussion needed. It's not the same as a "numbered corporation" which many Canadians have and which will be subject to the new tax rules. Thank you for the clarity. I doubt that Trudeau has offshored his money, although if he did I hope that comes out as it would be a major scandal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 10 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: I doubt that Trudeau has offshored his money, According to Trudeau, he is not involved in the management of his "family fortune". The question is, would the financial gurus handling his fortune advise him if that was the case? Quote although if he did I hope that comes out as it would be a major scandal. Robert Fife et al have already uncovered the details of some Trudeau holdings and investments as per the OP's link. They are actively digging for more details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 1 minute ago, capricorn said: According to Trudeau, he is not involved in the management of his "family fortune". The question is, would the financial gurus handling his fortune advise him if that was the case? Would they advise him ? No they would advise whichever party is managing the funds. It they were offshored, it would have been done way back, I suspect. 2 minutes ago, capricorn said: Robert Fife et al have already uncovered the details of some Trudeau holdings and investments as per the OP's link. They are actively digging for more details. Paywalled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, capricorn said: According to Trudeau, he is not involved in the management of his "family fortune". The question is, would the financial gurus handling his fortune advise him if that was the case? Robert Fife et al have already uncovered the details of some Trudeau holdings and investments as per the OP's link. They are actively digging for more details. Remember, Quebec was where the bulk of the pre-French Revolution wealth ended-up. Off with their 'heads and all that... The 'Old Money'.... Edited September 21, 2017 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 13 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: Paywalled. Right you are. Actually I listened to a podcast of an interview given by Fife to Evan Solomon on CFRA. Fife relayed his findings to Solomon and he indicated more was coming. The info in the interview is contained in that Globe item. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 40 minutes ago, capricorn said: According to Trudeau, he is not involved in the management of his "family fortune". The question is, would the financial gurus handling his fortune advise him if that was the case? Robert Fife et al have already uncovered the details of some Trudeau holdings and investments as per the OP's link. They are actively digging for more details. When fife gets his teeth into something watch out. And I have a feeling we will find out trudeau's wealth is a lot more then he has led us on to believe. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, PIK said: When fife gets his teeth into something watch out. And I have a feeling we will find out trudeau's wealth is a lot more then he has led us on to believe. The billionaires do want him in their club....but those socks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 The resource minister was taking the questions today and he would not answer the questions as usual. Al, he did was rant about the enviro minister being called barbie. But it you acted like barbi ,you will be called one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribblet Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 (edited) I don't know how other MPs handle their finances but that's not the point. The PM is calling small businesses tax cheats while at the same time enjoying loopholes for the rich, therefore avoiding taxes he wants other people to pay, many with lesser income. It's about Trudeau and Morneau standing behind their privileges while trying to remove them from others as PM Trudeau receives dividend payments from a private corporation as part of his family fortune, yet, it turns out that Trudeau has admitted he will not be impacted by the tax hikes he’s bringing in. So, it seems his corporations and others among his 1 %er friends, are exempt from the increases he’s imposing on others. It's about hypocrisy and not being the open transparent gov't he promised, and, some big fish are allready moving their money out of Canada. Meanwhile, back at the trough, Top Trudeau aides Butts, and Telford managed to expense over $200,000 for moving homes - what was that again about the Senate ! Edited September 21, 2017 by scribblet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: I was asking for details. Lots of PMs owned corporations, and how is this different from them or other Canadians ? Ok... "family trusts" "overseas accounts". Yes, now I get it. Your specificity is what the discussion needed. It's not the same as a "numbered corporation" which many Canadians have and which will be subject to the new tax rules. Thank you for the clarity. I doubt that Trudeau has offshored his money, although if he did I hope that comes out as it would be a major scandal. I was going to say read the cite, but I think it might be behind a paywall. The Globe and Mail has been investigating Mr. Trudeau's personal wealth and numbered corporations where his assets are held. It has proven difficult to find out detailed information on these numbered corporations. Mr. Trudeau's disclosure form for the Office of the Ethics Commissioner says he earns dividends from a company named 7664699 Canada Inc. He has sole ownership of 7664699, which also holds "a significant interest" in another company, 176078 Canada Inc. The sole director of 176078 is Louise Houle, a wealthy Montreal tax lawyer, whose website says she has "extensive experience in family trust and offshore trust matters." Ms. Houle is the secretary of the Pierre Elliott Trudeau foundation, among others. That foundation operates with the help of a $125-million endowment granted by Jean Chrétien's Liberal government. The Prime Minister is also a joint owner with his brother, Alexandre, of 9190-0563 Quebec Inc. The corporate profile says its activities in the Laurentian countryside include real estate development and the production and sale of timber and firewood. Its most recent evaluation for property tax (2017-19) was $2.73-million. The property includes two lakes and a cottage designed by Arthur Erickson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 Whoops. Is the PM evading taxes ? The offshore part is the only thing I see here that would blow back on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 14 hours ago, scribblet said: some big fish are allready moving their money out of Canada. It's only the beginning. John Manley weighs in. Quote Manley, a former Liberal finance minister in the Chretien government, said the elements of the government's plan to tighten rules on passive investment portfolios and the transfer of family businesses have created worries for some members of his organization, the Business Council of Canada. The financial concerns have been compounded by the government's accompanying messages that Manley believes have "vilified" higher-income Canadians. Many of his members, he added, have been taken aback by rhetoric that they see as pitting the middle class against the wealthy. "I don't get it at all — I thought that one of the successes of Prime Minister (Justin) Trudeau was that he was the unifier, he was bringing people together," said Manley, who noted the broader economy would eventually feel the sting of losing too many big job creators. http://www.bnn.ca/big-fish-moving-money-out-of-canada-because-of-tax-proposals-manley-1.863592 This current Liberal government is pitting Canadians against each other. No good can come of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribblet Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 Divide and conquer. Trudeau doesn't care about Canada, he only cares about elevating himself to the U.N. - and his socks. I don't believe he's evading taxes, he's avoiding them, just as small business people are doing, heck, doctors incorporated after their earnings were capped, can you blame them? I don't blame anyone for doing what they can to legally to cut back on taxes, but it's hardly right or fair for a PM to pick on small business owners calling them 'cheats' when he's doing something similar himself while keeping the tax loopholes open that he uses. The point isn't that he's doing something illegal, it's that he's so hypocritical - did you know that he had 3 registered businesses (one now defunct for his speaking engagements) - there's only one reason for that,to use loopholes to save taxes. No more QP tho because Trudeau is swanning off again to the U.N. maybe he'll show up for Question Period one of these weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 (edited) 14 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: Whoops. Is the PM evading taxes ? The offshore part is the only thing I see here that would blow back on him. What I'd like to know is why we can all roundly and rightly criticize Donald Trump for being opaque about his finances and refusing to divulge his taxes and how much he pays but give Trudeau a buy. What is his total income - not how much he actually declares after all his 'tax loopholes' have been used, and how much does he pay? I mean, he's the guy who's making such a big deal about how everyone has to pay their share, and how the wealthy can afford to pay more. What is his tax rate? Edited September 22, 2017 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queenmandy85 Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 (edited) I guess it is just me, but I thought, obviously in error, that anyone making more than $70K a year is rich and should pay more taxes, Trudeau, Sheer, Singh and I included. On the one hand, we bitch about deficits and on the other we complain that governments are not funding the services we use. We all want to go to heaven, but we don't want to die to get there. Edited September 22, 2017 by Queenmandy85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribblet Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 70k a year by today standards isn't rich, it sure wouldn't buy a house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 2 hours ago, Argus said: What I'd like to know is why we can all roundly and rightly criticize Donald Trump for being opaque about his finances and refusing to divulge his taxes and how much he pays but give Trudeau a buy. What is his total income - not how much he actually declares after all his 'tax loopholes' have been used, and how much does he pay? I mean, he's the guy who's making such a big deal about how everyone has to pay their share, and how the wealthy can afford to pay more. What is his tax rate? I think that you're trying to say give Trudeau a 'bye'. I'm not sure why 'we' - by which I assume you mean 'the press' - does that. I expect that it's because the media hates Trump and loves Trudeau, together with the fact that nobody has found anything strong enough to stick to him yet. This could be it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 3 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said: I guess it is just me, but I thought, obviously in error, that anyone making more than $70K a year is rich and should pay more taxes, Trudeau, Sheer, Singh and I included. On the one hand, we bitch about deficits and on the other we complain that governments are not funding the services we use. We all want to go to heaven, but we don't want to die to get there. Those making over 70k per year already pay about 90% of income taxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queenmandy85 Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Argus said: Those making over 70k per year already pay about 90% of income taxes. My 2016 tax return indicates the highest federal tax rate ( On taxable income over $200,000) is 33% and Sask. Provincial tax rate maximum is 15%. I am curious where the 90% comes in. If your taxable income is 70,000, you pay 20% and 12% you pay $, leaving you with $47,600. That is a pretty good sum. If you are paying 90%, on behalf of Canada, we appreciate your financial support. Edited September 22, 2017 by Queenmandy85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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