Nationalist Groups in Canada

[Michael Hardner]

9 hours ago, TTM said:

Thousands? Millions? Couldn't say, I'm not a historian.

Then how DARE you challenge the great DoP, with his ironclad definitions of what is what ?  This is called argument from authority, and DoP's authority on such things is himself which is why the discussion with him will go nowhere.  He simply sees Muslims as "different", which is to say irredeemable, and if you ask why he will explain that their holy book is different.  If you point out that other holy books have similar edicts to violence and intolerance, he will complete the circular explanation by drawing you back to Islamism as proof that the holy book is different.  There have been dozens of such threads on this topic, and as I say this one will end up like the others. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Then how DARE you challenge the great DoP, with his ironclad definitions of what is what ?  This is called argument from authority, and DoP's authority on such things is himself which is why the discussion with him will go nowhere.  He simply sees Muslims as "different", which is to say irredeemable, and if you ask why he will explain that their holy book is different.  If you point out that other holy books have similar edicts to violence and intolerance, he will complete the circular explanation by drawing you back to Islamism as proof that the holy book is different.  There have been dozens of such threads on this topic, and as I say this one will end up like the others. 

No Personal Attacks
 
Please respect others using this board by refraining from personal attacks. There is a huge difference between disagreeing with a thought or idea and attacking an individual. We encourage lively debate and intelligent critiques of others viewpoints, not tirades against another poster.
 

Just sayin'...

[Michael Hardner]

5 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Just sayin'...

Sorry - I'm trying to help the thread by framing the ridiculous argument as 'argument from authority' ... of one.  But I'll desist if you're offended.  If you don't see this line of discussion as ridiculous please feel free to defend it.  

The poster has already self-defined only fundamentalist Muslims as being Muslim and has engaged in exactly the circular explanation I outlined.  If you don't want to debate that line of discussion and think it's logical then you're wrong also.  As for the 'attack'... calling somebody great in a sarcastic way isn't much of one, but as I say I'll desist.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

Sorry - I'm trying to help the thread by framing the ridiculous argument as 'argument from authority' ... of one.  But I'll desist if you're offended.  If you don't see this line of discussion as ridiculous please feel free to defend it.  

The poster has already self-defined only fundamentalist Muslims as being Muslim and has engaged in exactly the circular explanation I outlined.  If you don't want to debate that line of discussion and think it's logical then you're wrong also.  As for the 'attack'... calling somebody great in a sarcastic way isn't much of one, but as I say I'll desist.

Oh, I'm not offended.  At all!  It was just too hard to resist.

[Argus]

14 hours ago, jacee said:

DoP this thread is not about extremism in Islamic countries that 'drive others out'.

It's about antiMuslim 'Nationalists' in Canada.

Tty to be relevant.

No, it's not, it's about Nationalism in Canada, period, not specifically anti-Muslim.

[Argus]

13 hours ago, TTM said:

Right, but it is is not the religion (as in the fixed texts) that changed, but the culture around it and hence the interpretation (or better yet, lack of) of that religion

It's hard to misinterpret some of the stuff in the Quran. It's pretty baldly antisemitic and goes on at great length about how unbelievers need to be treated. Maybe this was a part of the culture when the Quran and hadiths were written, but what's undoubtedly true is the impact on those cultures since then. If they weren't antisemitic and harshly rigid in their morality and biases towards women and other religions before - well, they are now. And it is those cultures that some of us would like to keep out of Canada. I don't think that makes me a 'nationalist' exactly, so much as cautious and careful.

As far as some of the stuff in the Old Testament goes, well, that pre-dated Christianity, and no Christian nation, as far as I know, has ever tried to actually mandate laws based on that stuff. Certainly none do today, nor do any major churches (or ANY churches I'm aware of) advocate it. But you don't have to go far to find imams preaching the harsher stuff in the Quran.

Edited September 4, 2017 by Argus

[DogOnPorch]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Then how DARE you challenge the great DoP, with his ironclad definitions of what is what ?  This is called argument from authority, and DoP's authority on such things is himself which is why the discussion with him will go nowhere.  He simply sees Muslims as "different", which is to say irredeemable, and if you ask why he will explain that their holy book is different.  If you point out that other holy books have similar edicts to violence and intolerance, he will complete the circular explanation by drawing you back to Islamism as proof that the holy book is different.  There have been dozens of such threads on this topic, and as I say this one will end up like the others. 

 

Actually, argument from authority uses 'expert' name dropping to try and prove that the argument is correct or incorrect.

What I do is quite the opposite as I use Islam's own words to make my argument.

I realize you don't like it. Too bad. These are Islam's words...

 

[hot enough]

13 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Actually, argument from authority uses 'expert' name dropping to try and prove that the argument is correct or incorrect.

What I do is quite the opposite as I use Islam's own words to make my argument.

I realize you don't like it. Too bad. These are Islam's words...

 

The problem, a big one, with your analysis, is that you are so blatantly one sided, so blatant that you ignore all the evidence that doesn't square with the memes you advance. 

Quote

'Violence more common' in Bible than Quran, text analysis reveals

The Old Testament was found to be more than twice as violent as the Quran

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/violence-more-common-in-bible-than-quran-text-analysis-reveals-a6863381.html

In addition, in your well known complete defiance of reality, you avoid the FACT that the USA/UK/Canada/... has slaughtered vastly more Muslims than is the reverse. 

You also ignore the fact that the US/UK/... committed a planned genocide against the people of Iraq in the 1990s where over a million died. 

Your dismal grasp on the realities of all these situations points up, clearly, why you advance these fabrications. However, such honesties cannot be spoken here at MLW.

[hot enough]

38 minutes ago, Argus said:

No, it's not, it's about Nationalism in Canada, period, not specifically anti-Muslim.

But they make a great target among those who operate in a knee jerk fashion.

[hot enough]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

Oh, I'm not offended.  At all!  It was just too hard to resist.

Why do you illustrate so often that you aren't interested in honest discussion, getting to the truth, that you are simply a provocateur?  Innocents are dying the world over and you are running tangents. 

[DogOnPorch]

1 hour ago, hot enough said:

The problem, a big one, with your analysis, is that you are so blatantly one sided, so blatant that you ignore all the evidence that doesn't square with the memes you advance. 

In addition, in your well known complete defiance of reality, you avoid the FACT that the USA/UK/Canada/... has slaughtered vastly more Muslims than is the reverse. 

You also ignore the fact that the US/UK/... committed a planned genocide against the people of Iraq in the 1990s where over a million died. 

Your dismal grasp on the realities of all these situations points up, clearly, why you advance these fabrications. However, such honesties cannot be spoken here at MLW.

 

You're free to pretend I wrote the Quran.

[GostHacked]

1 hour ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Actually, argument from authority uses 'expert' name dropping to try and prove that the argument is correct or incorrect.

What I do is quite the opposite as I use Islam's own words to make my argument.

I realize you don't like it. Too bad. These are Islam's words...

 

Mike H, looks like you were correct in your assessment. He DID go back to the Quran as you said!  I'd hate to be that predictable.

[DogOnPorch]

45 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Mike H, looks like you were correct in your assessment. He DID go back to the Quran as you said!  I'd hate to be that predictable.

 

Your defense of Islam is also predictable. You're free to protect it from critics...Islam being a victim 'n all.

Perhaps a law could be passed to make such criticism illegal.

Then you and your ilk could put me in my proper place.....

Prison for besmirching the Prophet. 

Happy days...

 

[GostHacked]

28 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Your defense of Islam is also predictable. You're free to protect it from critics...Islam being a victim 'n all.

Perhaps a law could be passed to make such criticism illegal.

Then you and your ilk could put me in my proper place.....

Prison for besmirching the Prophet. 

Happy days...

 

 

You are stuck in your own circular conversation as Mike has described. Need some help?

[Michael Hardner]

3 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

What I do is quite the opposite as I use Islam's own words to make my argument.

Argument ?  That would mean you allow for alternate interpretations.

[taxme]

21 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

But... why ?  

Silly question "but why"? Because the word avoider describes you to a T, avoider.  Chuckle-chuckle. 

[taxme]

7 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Then how DARE you challenge the great DoP, with his ironclad definitions of what is what ?  This is called argument from authority, and DoP's authority on such things is himself which is why the discussion with him will go nowhere.  He simply sees Muslims as "different", which is to say irredeemable, and if you ask why he will explain that their holy book is different.  If you point out that other holy books have similar edicts to violence and intolerance, he will complete the circular explanation by drawing you back to Islamism as proof that the holy book is different.  There have been dozens of such threads on this topic, and as I say this one will end up like the others. 

 

3 hours ago, hot enough said:

The problem, a big one, with your analysis, is that you are so blatantly one sided, so blatant that you ignore all the evidence that doesn't square with the memes you advance. 

In addition, in your well known complete defiance of reality, you avoid the FACT that the USA/UK/Canada/... has slaughtered vastly more Muslims than is the reverse. 

You also ignore the fact that the US/UK/... committed a planned genocide against the people of Iraq in the 1990s where over a million died. 

Your dismal grasp on the realities of all these situations points up, clearly, why you advance these fabrications. However, such honesties cannot be spoken here at MLW.

I often wonder what the world would be like if all religions didn't exist at all? Would the world be better off or worse off? Just wondering. 

[Charles Anthony]

Folks, 

Avoid derailing the thread. 

[Michael Hardner]

3 hours ago, taxme said:

Silly question "but why"? Because the word avoider describes you to a T, avoider.  Chuckle-chuckle. 

Yeah but I answered your question, (presumably related to bias in posting on this topic? ) so why are you saying that ?  

Edited September 4, 2017 by Michael Hardner

[Argus]

4 hours ago, Charles Anthony said:

Folks, 

Avoid derailing the thread. 

Sooo, to summarize, there isn't a lot of white nationalism in Canada, and what there is isn't so much on the rise as getting more publicity. Although what seems to be inspiring it around the western world is immigration, too much, too fast, the wrong kind of immigrants.

[jacee]

11 hours ago, Argus said:

Sooo, to summarize, there isn't a lot of white nationalism in Canada, and what there is isn't so much on the rise as getting more publicity. Although what seems to be inspiring it around the western world is immigration, too much, too fast, the wrong kind of immigrants.

Tell the US & allies to stop bombing their countries, then.

[jacee]

Re: white nationalists ... ie, the thread topic ... post Charlottesville, a gathering of poor misguided buffoons and a few sociopaths who prey on them.

Buffoons bragged about guns and 'killing them all'.

Surprise night torch rally to beat up a few black people.

Smash through clergy to try to deliver their hate messages.

Shoot into a crowd.

Turn tail and run when a few people fight back.

Crazoid drives at people kills one injures 19.

Crying Nazi learns that his pepper spray is a felony. What?! He didn't know?

Quite a lot of bad publicity!

In the aftermath, some Canadian white nationalist groups are now rallying to  address their real issues: "Poverty and mental illness".

Yup. For real. 

PEGIDA will talk about the influence of Islam on poverty. 

[drummindiver]

22 hours ago, Argus said:

 

As far as some of the stuff in the Old Testament goes, well, that pre-dated Christianity, and no Christian nation, as far as I know, has ever tried to actually mandate laws based on that stuff. Certainly none do today, nor do any major churches (or ANY churches I'm aware of) advocate it. But you don't have to go far to find imams preaching the harsher stuff in the Quran.

Not Christian churches, but every synagogue does. Clearly as in all religions there are extremists who live by the letter.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah

[hot enough]

51 minutes ago, drummindiver said:

Not Christian churches, but every synagogue does. Clearly as in all religions there are extremists who live by the letter.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah

The US is full of such "christian" churches. Preachers who fully support the war crimes and the terrorism of their governments. Billy Graham advocated genocidal policies against the Vietnamese. It is the "christians" [not all mind you] who have plumped for, wholly supported the slaughter of tens of millions of people by the US around the world. 

All the US raping and pillaging the poor countries was often defended as bringing salvation to the heathens. That line of utter bullshit fell out of favor because even the dumbest found it suspect. 

[hot enough]

On 9/4/2017 at 6:55 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Then how DARE you challenge the great DoP, with his ironclad definitions of what is what ?  

TTM said, "Thousands? Millions? Couldn't say, I'm not a historian." and you didn't pick up on that, Michael. Why? 

Because it might lead you to a point where you would have to acknowledge the evil that is the USA and you do not want the childish fairy tale you cling to to be blown up