Nationalist Groups in Canada

[jacee]

7 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

If you like. I don't believe that myself. I don't believe separation of church and state would be high on their agenda if they ever achieved their caliphate, nor do I believe that the lone wolves who carry out attacks that are subsequently claimed by Islamists are inspired by anything other than their jihad. 

I don't believe you comprehend the difference between ordinary people and extremists.

It's immature and hateful to smear all Muslims because of dangerous extremists who are not even religious.

[dialamah]

10 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

If you like. I don't believe that myself. I don't believe separation of church and state would be high on their agenda if they ever achieved their caliphate, nor do I believe that the lone wolves who carry out attacks that are subsequently claimed by Islamists are inspired by anything other than their jihad. 

Still the same argument.  Governments in Islamic countries 'use' Islam to maintain an authoritarian regime.  Most of the worst human rights practices found in Islamic countries are also found in non-Islamic countries so blaming "Islam" here and "totalitarianism" there makes no sense.  

 

[dialamah]

2 minutes ago, jacee said:

I don't believe you comprehend the difference between ordinary people and extremists.

It's immature and hateful to smear all Muslims because of dangerous extremists who are not even religious.

To be fair, he doesn't quite smear all Muslims.  He just has decided to take at face value what the extremists themselves claim.

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, jacee said:

I don't believe you comprehend the difference between ordinary people and extremists.

It's immature and hateful to smear all Muslims because of dangerous extremists who are not even religious.

Yes, absolutely.  That's why I would never consider doing that.

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, dialamah said:

To be fair, he doesn't quite smear all Muslims.  He just has decided to take at face value what the extremists themselves claim.

Seems reasonable to me.

What do you think the ISIS caliphate would look like, were it to come to pass?

Why does an idiot with a sword yell "Allahu Akbar" before attacking the police outside Buckingham Palace?  If he yelled "Millwall Forever", we wouldn't assume he was an Arsenal fan.

Edit> By the way, there's no "quite" about it.  I just don't, the same way you and Jacee don't.

Edited September 2, 2017 by bcsapper

[Argus]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

If Islam were the "reason" for Islamic terrorism, we'd have a lot more Muslims blowing themselves up and running cars into crowds.  Don't be fooled by an extremist element that calls itself "Muslim" into thinking that's their reason for what they do.   They are fighting for territory and against the West, and any reason would do - they simply decided to claim Islam, and found a few random verses in the Quran to 'support' their agenda.

Random? A few? This is why it's so difficult to converse with you and others like you on the subject. The Quran does not contain a 'few random verses' which would considered violently and brutally hostile to western cultural behavior and to non-Muslims. The entire thrust of the message of the Quran is 'submission' to Allah, and punishment and  retribution for those who challenge the word of God which is the Quran. Even the few peaceful messages you tend to cite came from earlier in the life of Muhammed, and are thus considered to be overridden by Muslim scholars  by the more violent passages which came later.

Now you will claim there are violent passages in the Old Testament, but no Christian nation and no major Christian denomination lives by those passages or pays any attention to them. Meanwhile the brutal parts of the Quran are preached daily from thousands of mosques around the world.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, jacee said:

I don't believe you comprehend the difference between ordinary people and extremists.

You and others like you pretend the only issue with Islam are the terrorists. But they are merely a symptom of the actual issue, which is the vicious, brutal and intolerant religious messages increasingly being preached from mosques throughout the Muslim world.

1 hour ago, jacee said:

It's immature and hateful to smear all Muslims because of dangerous extremists who are not even religious.

There are no Muslims who aren't religious.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Still the same argument.  Governments in Islamic countries 'use' Islam to maintain an authoritarian regime.  Most of the worst human rights practices found in Islamic countries are also found in non-Islamic countries so blaming "Islam" here and "totalitarianism" there makes no sense.  

 

What, ALL of them? There are 57 Muslim nations. You'd think at least a few would have dropped that by now. But nope. Maybe that has something to do with the fact the Quran sets out the fundamentals of how Muslims must be governed, and the laws and rules they must live under, and democracy has no place in those rules, much less the concept of a separation of mosque and state.

[dialamah]

19 minutes ago, Argus said:

Random? A few? This is why it's so difficult to converse with you and others like you on the subject. The Quran does not contain a 'few random verses' which would considered violently and brutally hostile to western cultural behavior and to non-Muslims. The entire thrust of the message of the Quran is 'submission' to Allah, and punishment and  retribution for those who challenge the word of God which is the Quran. Even the few peaceful messages you tend to cite came from earlier in the life of Muhammed, and are thus considered to be overridden by Muslim scholars  by the more violent passages which came later.

Now you will claim there are violent passages in the Old Testament, but no Christian nation and no major Christian denomination lives by those passages or pays any attention to them. Meanwhile the brutal parts of the Quran are preached daily from thousands of mosques around the world.

You and extremists ignore those Quranic verses forbidding murder which includes terrorism.    Most Muslims - 99% - condemn terrorism and murder.  But people like you refuse to acknowledge that fact, preferring instead to pretend that the less than 1% who practice terrorism are the norm.   The unsubstantiated hyperbole people like you engage in makes it impossible to discuss this topic reasonably.   

Edited September 2, 2017 by dialamah
Simplifying

[Guest]

Blaming all Muslims for the actions of the extremists would be like blaming all white folk for the actions of white supremacists. 

Saying Islam has nothing to do with the former is like saying skin colour has nothing to do with the latter.

[dialamah]

24 minutes ago, Argus said:

What, ALL of them? There are 57 Muslim nations. You'd think at least a few would have dropped that by now. But nope. Maybe that has something to do with the fact the Quran sets out the fundamentals of how Muslims must be governed, and the laws and rules they must live under, and democracy has no place in those rules, much less the concept of a separation of mosque and state.

Qur'an sets out principles of democracy, but current leaders do not follow those principles.   

Quote

In conclusion, it may be said that Islam had been the pioneer of democracy, but its followers in general have forgotten their own values along with the democratic system of governance. Now vast swathes of Muslim lands exist under absolute monarchies or despotic rulers. It is an irony of history that contemporary Muslim political thinkers and intellectuals, too, should now begin to see western democracy as a model.

 

 

Quote

 

Muslims don't like democracy" or "Islam isn't compatible with democracy" - that's what is often spewed by some of Islam's biggest critics.

But a look at the big picture - a world where much of the Muslim population lives within democratic countries and most Muslims support democracy - proves otherwise.

In this week's Reality Check, Mehdi Hasan debunks the commonly held myth that Islam and democracy are not compatible.

 

 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

there are no Muslims who aren't religious.

This is a xenophobic statement.  To say such a thing is to say that this religion is different in that it has unbreakable hold on it's followers.  It says that they are inhuman.

[jacee]

2 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Seems reasonable to me.

What do you think the ISIS caliphate would look like, were it to come to pass?

Why does an idiot with a sword yell "Allahu Akbar" before attacking the police outside Buckingham Palace?  If he yelled "Millwall Forever", we wouldn't assume he was an Arsenal fan.

Edit> By the way, there's no "quite" about it.  I just don't, the same way you and Jacee don't.

You don't see that Muslim members of our communities are threatened by your blanket association with extremist  terrorists?

We are not just talking about terrorists.

They do not represent Islam.

They co-opt Islam and defile it.

Like 'Christian' terrorists.

Islamophobia - lumping all Muslims with extremists - hurts Canadian communities.

So piss off.

Add:

This thread is about anti-Muslim 'Nationalists' in Canada, addressing our own problems.

I wish all you war nuts would stay in the International forum.

Some people might actually want to seek solutions to Canadian problems.

Edited September 2, 2017 by jacee

[jacee]

47 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

This is a xenophobic statement.  To say such a thing is to say that this religion is different in that it has unbreakable hold on it's followers.  It says that they are inhuman.

Extremist 'Islamist' terrorists seldom/never attend mosque.

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, jacee said:

You don't see that Muslim members of our communities are threatened by your blanket association with extremist  terrorists?

We are not just talking about terrorists.

They do not represent Islam.

They co-opt Islam and defile it.

Like 'Christian' terrorists.

Islamophobia - lumping all Muslims with extremists - hurts Canadian communities.

So piss off.

Add:

This thread is about anti-Muslim 'Nationalists' in Canada, addressing our own problems.

I wish all you war nuts would stay in the International forum.

Some people might actually want to seek solutions to Canadian problems.

Well, on the piss off front, I don't think so.

I don't care one whit what you think I'm doing.  Your views are known to be whatever makes your argument.  Irrational or not, true or false, it doesn't matter to you.

There is no blanket association, but if you had to admit that, you might have to deal with the truth of the matter, which is that some Muslims are right bastards, even unto killing those who disagree with them.  You can't bring yourself to admit that, so you make stuff up.

And, still not pissing off...

[jacee]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

Well, on the piss off front, I don't think so.

I don't care one whit what you think I'm doing.  Your views are known to be whatever makes your argument.  Irrational or not, true or false, it doesn't matter to you.

There is no blanket association, but if you had to admit that, you might have to deal with the truth of the matter, which is that some Muslims are right bastards, even unto killing those who disagree with them.  You can't bring yourself to admit that, so you make stuff up.

And, still not pissing off...

Most Muslims in Canada are no more "bastards" than you. 

Stop smearing Canadian Muslims in this thread.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, jacee said:

Most Muslims in Canada are no more "bastards" than you. 

Stop smearing Canadian Muslims in this thread.

Yeah I know.  I only smear those who are. 

Unlike you, I'm a careful smearer.

[jacee]

Del

 

Edited September 3, 2017 by jacee
Correction

[jacee]

11 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Del

[Guest]

Get a grip!

[Argus]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

This is a xenophobic statement.

It appears that in addition to know understanding the word 'slander' you don't understand the word 'xenophobic', which I suppose is understandable since it's used by the Left as a sort of all-purpose pejorative for anyone who disagrees on anything remotely related to immigration/ethnicity/religion.

If you are not religious, you're not a Muslim. Ask any Muslim and they'll tell you that is a plain and simple fact. You don't get baptized into Islam like you do into Catholicism. You're either a practicing Muslim who observes the religious rules and requirements or, as far as the world's Muslims are concerned, you're not a Muslim.

Saying you can be a Muslim and not religious is like saying you can be a Nazi but not really care about Nazism. I mean, they're not ideologies for the detached and disinterested.

Edited September 3, 2017 by Argus

[jacee]

5 hours ago, bcsapper said:

What do you think the ISIS caliphate would look like, were it to come to pass?

Why does an idiot with a sword yell "Allahu Akbar" before attacking the police outside Buckingham Palace?  If he yelled "Millwall Forever", we wouldn't assume he was an Arsenal fan.

What do these extremists have to do with Canadian Muslims?

In Canada their greatest concern is people like you who try to incite hatred and violence against them, encouraging unstable Canadian extremists to shoot and kill them while they pray.

[DogOnPorch]

7 hours ago, jacee said:

Interesting.

So you blame a religion for terrorism?

What about Nazis? 

Doesn't terrorism arise without or in spite of religion?

Should we not address the issue of terrorism itself, rather than being distracted into flailing wildly at an entire religion ... like the Nazis did?

 

Islam and Nazism saw eye to eye on the Jewish question. Both demand the eradication of all Jews. This is why the founder of the Palestinian Cause, Haj Amin al-Husseini, became a high ranking SS man and hobnobbed with Nazi luminaries. Participated in the Final Solution. Formed all Muslim SS divisions...etc.

 

 

[jacee]

3 minutes ago, Argus said:

It appears that in addition to know understanding the word 'slander' you don't understand the word 'xenophobic', which I suppose is understandable since it's used by the Left as a sort of all-purpose pejorative for anyone who disagrees on anything remotely related to immigration/ethnicity/religion.

If you are not religious, you're not a Muslim. Ask any Muslim and they'll tell you that is a plain and simple fact. You don't get baptized into Islam like you do into Catholicism. You're either a practicing Muslim who observes the religious rules and requirements or, as far as the world's Muslims are concerned, you're not a Muslim.

Interesting.

So called 'Islamic' extremists seldom/never go to mosque.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, jacee said:

What do these extremists have to do with Canadian Muslims?

In Canada their greatest concern is people like you who try to incite hatred and violence against them, encouraging unstable Canadian extremists to shoot and kill them while they pray.

No it's not.  They agree with me. They hate the extremists who are giving them a bad name.  Just like I do.