TTM Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 32 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: So how many did Mohammad murder personally? How about rape? Child molestation? If I'm gonna respect the preferred cult at the threat of imprisonment, I'd at least like to be clear on who we're all supporting and what he did according to Islam's own history. Depending on who you ask, he committed all of these or none. Which is why it doesn't matter. You're trying to argue from inside the fever dream ... it doesn't matter who's unicorn is prettiest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 Just now, TTM said: Depending on who you ask, he committed all of these or none. Which is why it doesn't matter. You're trying to argue from inside the fever dream ... it doesn't matter who's unicorn is prettiest. Islam gets a pass...understood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 8 minutes ago, bcsapper said: Well, a book never hurt anyone, unless someone else hit them with it. Bludgeons Sapper with a copy of TS Eliot's Four Quartets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 (it's very thin) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTM Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Islam gets a pass...understood. Islam gets put in the same box as all other religions. And hopefully some day we lock the box and burn it. Until then, feel free to criticise any person or group that uses religion to justify immoral actions. Edited September 4, 2017 by TTM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 Just now, TTM said: Islam gets put in the same box as all other religions. And hopefully some day we lock the box and burn it. Until then, feel free to criticise the actions any person or group that uses religion to justify immoral actions. Thanks for your permission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTM Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, bcsapper said: Well, a book never hurt anyone, unless someone else hit them with it. I don't know ... I read Ayn Rand once. It was painful Edited September 4, 2017 by TTM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTM Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said: Thanks for your permission. You're welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, TTM said: You're welcome. So how many DID Mohammad murder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 10 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: (it's very thin) Unlike me, sadly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTM Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said: So how many DID Mohammad murder? According to the biased link I posted, none. What's your unbiased number? How many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 Just now, TTM said: According to the biased link I posted, none. What's your unbiased number? How many angels can dance on the head of a pin. So you don't view Mohammad as a historical figure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 Re: amount. I asked this question. Your answer is zero. Any other numbers out there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 5 minutes ago, bcsapper said: Unlike me, sadly... Blast...this will take all day. (goes for a copy of Blake's Illustrated Divine Comedy) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTM Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 Just now, DogOnPorch said: So you don't view Mohammad as a historical figure? He's a prophet, not a person. His real flesh and blood actions matter as much as those of Jesus, Moses, etc. What matters is the story his adherents personally believe, and being religion rather than fact, that's Rashomon territory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 1 minute ago, TTM said: He's a prophet, not a person. His real flesh and blood actions matter as much as those of Jesus, Moses, etc. What matters is the story his adherents personally believe, and being religion rather than fact, that's Rashomon territory. Cinema Noir makes for great analogy. Especially one about murder. I hope you know... Your assertion that Mohammad wasn't a real person flies in the face of his historical military campaigns. This in your mind allows you to dodge the question: how many did your apparent prophet murder? Making me respond: I accept your surrender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 1 hour ago, DogOnPorch said: So how many people did Jesus murder again? What a dumb question, as a learned historian of considerable repute you know full well when he was in God mode He smote...God only knows how many. He kills and will kill everyone and everything eventually. It's how He rolls. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 1 minute ago, eyeball said: What a dumb question, as a learned historian of considerable repute you know full well when he was in God mode He smote...God only knows how many. He kills and will kill everyone and everything eventually. It's how He rolls. Then they surrendered, and the apostle confined them in Medina in the quarter of d. al-Harith, a woman of B. al-Najjar. Then the apostle went out to the market of Medina (which is still its market today) and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for them and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches. Among them was the enemy of Allah Huyayy b. Akhtab and Ka`b b. Asad their chief. There were 600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900. As they were being taken out in batches to the apostle they asked Ka`b what he thought would be done with them. He replied, "Will you never understand? Don't you see that the summoner never stops and those who are taken away do not return? By Allah it is death!" This went on until the apostle made an end of them. Huyayy was brought out wearing a flowered robe in which he had made holes about the size of the finger-tips in every part so that it should not be taken from him as spoil, with his hands bound to his neck by a rope. When he saw the apostle he said, "By God, I do not blame myself for opposing you, but he who forsakes God will be forsaken." Then he went to the men and said, "God's command is right. A book and a decree, and massacre have been written against the Sons of Israel." Then he sat down and his head was struck off. ---Ibn Ishaq Babi Yar style... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 Whatever...you still asked a dumb question...in your style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 1 minute ago, eyeball said: Whatever...you still asked a dumb question...in your style. You're free to defend Islam as you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTM Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Cinema Noir makes for great analogy. Especially one about murder. I hope you know... Your assertion that Mohammad wasn't a real person flies in the face of his historical military campaigns. This in your mind allows you to dodge the question: how many did your apparent prophet murder? Making me respond: I accept your surrender. Damn, and I was all ready to declare unilateral victory in the great "how spiffy is my prophet" debate of '17, but you beat me to it. Hell, I got so caught up, I apparently even forgot I was atheist. I just thank God (Allahu akbar) that you ended the debate before you made any points. I'm sure they would have been devastating. Peace out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: You're free to defend Islam as you do. Thanks. You're a peach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, TTM said: Damn, and I was all ready to declare unilateral victory in the great "how spiffy is my prophet" debate of '17, but you beat me to it. Hell, I got so caught up, I apparently even forgot I was atheist. I just thank God (Allahu akbar) that you ended the debate before you made any points. I'm sure they would have been devastating. Peace out. The funny thing about parting shots after one surrenders is that they are related to a historical event called the Pyrrhic Victory. "The ironing is delicious", as Bart Simpson said... Edited September 4, 2017 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTM Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, DogOnPorch said: The funny thing about parting shots after one surrenders is that they are related to a historical event called the Pyrrhic Victory. "The ironing is delicious", as Bart Simpson said... Surrender? I can only wait at the top of the hill so long while the barbarians make faces and loud noises, but refuse to join the battle. I'm back for a bit because you finally made an attempt at a point. However, I need to sleep sometime to maintain this handsome visage, so I shan't tarry long. P.S. Which side of the pyrrhic victory are you in that analogy, the side that lost lost, or the side that lost in victory? Either way doesn't reflect very well on your debating skills. Actually, it's a trick question because I believe the real analogy you are looking for is the firing of parting shots while retreating with ones tail between ones legs, which has nothing to do with a pyrrhic victory. Certainly there are no parting shots by the surrenderer after the surrender, that would just be silly. Really the whole thing's a mess, so let's just forget about it shall we? Edited September 4, 2017 by TTM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTM Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 (edited) 40 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Then they surrendered, and the apostle confined them in Medina in the quarter of d. al-Harith, a woman of B. al-Najjar. Then the apostle went out to the market of Medina (which is still its market today) and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for them and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches. Among them was the enemy of Allah Huyayy b. Akhtab and Ka`b b. Asad their chief. There were 600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900. As they were being taken out in batches to the apostle they asked Ka`b what he thought would be done with them. He replied, "Will you never understand? Don't you see that the summoner never stops and those who are taken away do not return? By Allah it is death!" This went on until the apostle made an end of them. Huyayy was brought out wearing a flowered robe in which he had made holes about the size of the finger-tips in every part so that it should not be taken from him as spoil, with his hands bound to his neck by a rope. When he saw the apostle he said, "By God, I do not blame myself for opposing you, but he who forsakes God will be forsaken." Then he went to the men and said, "God's command is right. A book and a decree, and massacre have been written against the Sons of Israel." Then he sat down and his head was struck off. ---Ibn Ishaq Babi Yar style... Hearsay based on a reconstructed text written 100 years after the death of Muhammad from oral traditions. The jury shall disregard the evidence. Edited September 4, 2017 by TTM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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