North Korea, drunk or playing the role given ...

[Altai]

Why would an ordinary and small country  need to challange the World's richest army with the most facilities ? Why would they continuously try to provoke and take attention of a sleeping bear ? Does this sound logical to you ? If you are a sheep, yes this may sound logical. I am not a sheep and I am questioning. Once in my school I was running in the hallway and I said to a guy "Look at the front you idiot" and I didnt know that this guy was the most problematic and criminal guy of my school. He searched to find me for two days and finally he found me in my class. He asked me "Hey, did you call me idiot or I just heard wrong" and I said "yeah sorry I think you just heard wrong" and he simply walked away. So I am trying to say that no normal person would challange against someones who has an irresistible advantageous position. There is no real reason for Northern Korea to challange US because US and its allies around N.Korea can easily sweep N.Korea into the ocean. There is only one logical result, Northern Korea is just playing the role given them by someones, probably by US. They are just creating reason for US to settle around China, like as settling in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan under the pretext of figthing so-called terror organizations. If N.Korea was really a danger for US, do you think that US would miss such a target since long years ? 

Edited August 10, 2017 by Altai

[hot enough]

In a word, survival. 

The USA has been terrorizing the people of Korea, all of them, for almost 75 years. The US introduced nuclear weapons to the Korean peninsula around 1958, in direct contravention to the armistice agreement. The US has never had any respect for treaties with anyone. What can one expect from world class liars. 

It made about 500 with Native Americans and broke them all. Hence the saying, "White man speaks with forked tongue".

The US slaughtered 3 million, mostly civilians, in both the north and south of Korea. 

Quote

The Korean War, a.k.a. the “Unknown War,” was, in fact, headline news at the time it was being fought(1950-53). Given the Cold War hatreds of the combatants, though, a great deal of the reportage was propaganda, and much of what should have been told was never told. News of the worst atrocities perpetrated against civilians was routinely suppressed and the full story of the horrific suffering of the Korean people—who lost 3-million souls of a total population of 23-million— has yet to be told in full. Filling in many of the blank spaces is Bruce Cumings, chair of the Department of History at the University of Chicago, whose book “The Korean War”(Modern Library Chronicles) takes an objective look at the conflict. In one review, Publishers Weekly says, “In this devastating work he shows how little the U.S. knew about who it was fighting, why it was fighting, and even how it was fighting.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-korean-war-the-unknown-war-the-coverup-of-us-war-crimes/23742

 

[August1991]

1 hour ago, hot enough said:

In a word, survival.

...

Survival?

North Korea is a dictatorship; it is a society of millions of individuals/people following the dictates of someone like Caligula.

=====

What do we in the West do?

1. I suggest that we make clear to individuals in North Korea that we are on their side.

2. In this particular case of a "State Caligula", I reckon that without the support of China, North Korea would not exist. If I were Trump, I'd put pressure on Beijing.

Edited August 11, 2017 by August1991

[bush_cheney2004]

The DPRK is not just a U.S. or Trump problem, but Trudeau is about as useless as tits on a bull.

 

[hot enough]

1 hour ago, August1991 said:

Survival?

North Korea is a dictatorship; it is a society of millions of individuals/people following the dictates of someone like Caligula.

 

Your beliefs come from your predilection for wacky US propaganda novels. By reading these you think you know something of the world. 

What part of Dr Bruce Cumings, Chair, University of Chicago, comments did you not understand? 

Quote

Cumings said U.S. coverage of the war was badly slanted. Hanson Baldwin, the military correspondent for The New York Times, described “North Koreans as locusts, like Nazis, like vermin, who come shrieking on. I mean, this is really hard stuff to read in an era when you don’t get away with that kind of thinking anymore.” Cumings adds, “Rapes were extremely common. Koreans in the South will still say that that was one of the worst things of the war (was how)many American soldiers were raping Korean women.”

Cumings said he was able to draw upon a lot of South Korean research that has come out since the nation democratized in the 1990s about the massacres of Korean civilians. This has been the subject of painstaking research by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in Seoul and Cumings describes the results as “horrific.” Atrocities by “our side, the South Koreans (ran) six to one ahead of the North Koreans in terms of killing civilians, whereas most Americans would think North Koreans would just as soon kill a civilian to look at him.” The numbers of civilians killed in South Korea by the government, Cumings said, even dwarfed Spaniards murdered by dictator Francisco Franco, the general who overthrew the Madrid government in the 1936-1939 civil war. Cumings said about 100,000 South Koreans were killed in political violence between 1945 and 1950 and perhaps as many as 200,000 more were killed during the early months of the war. 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-korean-war-the-unknown-war-the-coverup-of-us-war-crimes/23742

The US was in Korea before the end of WWII, conspiring with the Japanese to take over from Japanese colonial rule.

Quote

One of the worst atrocities was perpetrated by the South Korean police at the small city of Tae Jun. They executed 7,000 political prisoners while Central Intelligence Agency and U.S. military officials looked on, Cumings said. To compound the crime, the Pentagon blamed the atrocity on the Communists, Cumings said. “The Joint Chiefs of Staff classified the photographs of it because they make it clear who’s doing it, and they don’t let the photographs out until 1999 when a Korean finally got them declassified.” To top that off, the historian says, “the Pentagon did a video movie called ‘Crime of Korea’ where you see shots of pits that go on for like a football field, pit after pit of dead people, and (actor) Humphrey Bogart in a voice-over says, ‘someday the Communists will pay for this, someday we’ll get the full totals and believe me we’ll get the exact, accurate totals of the people murdered here and we will make these war criminals pay.’ Now this is a complete reversal of black and white, done as a matter of policy.” Cumings adds that these events represent “a very deep American responsibility for the regime that we promoted, really more than any other in East Asia (and that) was our creation in the late Forties.” Other atrocities, such as the one at No Gun village, Cumings terms “an American massacre of women and children,” which he lays at the feet of the U.S. military.

Ibid

Quote

 

What do we in the West do?

1. I suggest that we make clear to individuals in North Korea that we are on their side.

2. In this particular case of a "State Caligula", I reckon that without the support of China, North Korea would not exist. If I were Trump, I'd put pressure on Beijing.

 

What do you in the west do? What you have always done, sit silent while the US has committed vicious war crimes after vicious war crimes against myriad nations. You have never been on any peoples' side. If you were you would speak out against these horrendous US crimes.

For dog's sakes, the US is still committing war crimes in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, ... .

[August1991]

1 hour ago, hot enough said:

For dog's sakes, the US is still committing war crimes in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, ... .

There are about 25 million people in North Korea. Many live in conditions worse than what the US imposed on prisoners in Guantanamo.

But, you know what?

Sometimes, it's not about America or Americans or what America or Americans have done. You Americans seem to think that everything is about you

======

I'm reminded of the play/movie Shirley Valentine.

Shirley Valentine: I mean, most fellas ya know, they've got no idea how to talk to a woman.

Costas Caldes: No?

Shirley Valentine: No. They feel they have to take over the conversation. I mean, I mean with most fellas if you say something like, like my favorite season's autumn, they go oh, oh, my favorite season's spring and then you've got 10 minutes of them talkin' about why they like spring and you weren't talkin' about spring, you were talkin' about autumn. So what do you do? You talk about what they want to talk about. Or you don't talk at all. Or you wind up talking to yourself.

 

Edited August 11, 2017 by August1991

[Altai]

8 hours ago, hot enough said:

In a word, survival. 

The USA has been terrorizing the people of Korea, all of them, for almost 75 years. The US introduced nuclear weapons to the Korean peninsula around 1958, in direct contravention to the armistice agreement. The US has never had any respect for treaties with anyone. What can one expect from world class liars. 

It made about 500 with Native Americans and broke them all. Hence the saying, "White man speaks with forked tongue".

The US slaughtered 3 million, mostly civilians, in both the north and south of Korea. 

 

If it was something survival, they would not act provocative. They are appearing within certain periods and telling things take the negative reaction of whole the World. This is not normal. This is the same scenario with ISIS is threatening whole the World countries with finger slippers in their feet and with a fruit knife in their hands. This story is for sheeps.
 

[Altai]

9 hours ago, August1991 said:

Survival?

North Korea is a dictatorship; it is a society of millions of individuals/people following the dictates of someone like Caligula.

=====

What do we in the West do?

1. I suggest that we make clear to individuals in North Korea that we are on their side.

2. In this particular case of a "State Caligula", I reckon that without the support of China, North Korea would not exist. If I were Trump, I'd put pressure on Beijing.

This is another story. So bringing "democracy" to somewheres while US itself is a dictatorship controlled by money barons or army (pentagon, cia etc). 

[Altai]

President Erdogan replied the questions of journalists, he said  "This is thought provoking that some countries (Korea and US) are threatening each other with nuclear weapons. One of the remarkable point is that some countries (US) who claims of being against the nuclear weaponry  threatens other countries with nuclear attacks. If we look at the event with a general perspective, the countries (US,Germany,Britain,France etc) who is disturbed by weak and devoloping countries to produce nuclear weapons,  is in effort to use their nuclear weapons mercilessly on others. Currently there are 16 countries in the World with a serious work on nuclear weaponry, three of them has a huge nuclear weapon power. We hope that the blackmailing between N.Korea and US does not turn into a shooting, it may not limited a shooting between both of them and may spread to other countries. We hope that this event would end within the framework of political talks. 




 

[hot enough]

9 hours ago, August1991 said:

There are about 25 million people in North Korea. Many live in conditions worse than what the US imposed on prisoners in Guantanamo.

But, you know what?

Sometimes, it's not about America or Americans or what America or Americans have done. You Americans seem to think that everything is about you

It is exactly what the Americans have done just as it was about the Nazis had done. Three million of 23 million slaughtered by the US in 3 short years, more than in Japan in all of WWII. 

You know, you can well imagine the economic power of the US and it has been using this power for over 70 years to terrorize the people of Korea. That is why the Korea people live in such conditions. There is no reason for this to have gone on for so long. The US did the same to Vietnam until other countries simply said enough is enough and started trading. All of a sudden the US, not wanting to be left out, changed its tune and Vietnam is part of the world. The north of Korea has a lot of natural resources which the US wants.  

Yes, Americans think that everything is about them. They think this to the total exclusion of all the tens of millions they have slaughtered, giving them nary a thought except to make their god awful propagandist movies and write their god awful propagandist books/novels that have no truth in them at all. 

Why do you studiously ignore the research done by Professor Cumings, which shows just how evil the US was and is? There was a Korean war crimes tribunal in New York and the US stopped the delegates from the north from attending and the citizens from the south were hassled and prevented from getting on their flights. 

Did you read about that in the US media? Have you read about US war crimes in any western media? You know the answer to that.

======

I'm reminded of the play/movie Shirley Valentine.

Shirley Valentine: I mean, most fellas ya know, they've got no idea how to talk to a woman.

Costas Caldes: No?Shirley Valentine: No. They feel they have to take over the conversation. I mean, I mean with most fellas if you say something like, like my favorite season's autumn, they go oh, oh, my favorite season's spring and then you've got 10 minutes of them talkin' about why they like spring and you weren't talkin' about spring, you were talkin' about autumn. So what do you do? You talk about what they want to talk about. Or you don't talk at all. Or you wind up talking to yourself.

I'm reminded that I described you as a product of US novels/movies/propaganda and here you are confirming that with such vigor. And such trite, useless comments. Consider the suffering of the Korean people and stop whining about you you you! The US has no right to terrorize any people or country and yet it has been doing this on a massive scale and you know of a lot of this and still you support this evil.

 

 

[hot enough]

1 hour ago, Altai said:

President Erdogan replied the questions of journalists, he said

Western nations NEVER hear what others in the world are saying. It's always the US and its media whores that control the narrative. That is how it has always been and you all think you live in such a free and open society. You prance about, preening your democratic feathers with a conceit that is sickening. 

How come none of you know that the UNGA has been condemning the US for 25 years for its terrorism against Cuba? This is the whole world voting 198 to 2, Canada, UK, Australia but what do we hear from out governments - nothing at all!

How come none of you speak out about the US/UK slaughter of a million Iraqi children with the US planned and discussed beforehand genocide? You're all too busy pretending to care about memes that you have been fed by your propaganda masters. 

[betsy]

2 hours ago, Altai said:

President Erdogan replied the questions of journalists, he said  "This is thought provoking that some countries (Korea and US) are threatening each other with nuclear weapons. One of the remarkable point is that some countries (US) who claims of being against the nuclear weaponry  threatens other countries with nuclear attacks. If we look at the event with a general perspective, the countries (US,Germany,Britain,France etc) who is disturbed by weak and devoloping countries to produce nuclear weapons,  is in effort to use their nuclear weapons mercilessly on others. Currently there are 16 countries in the World with a serious work on nuclear weaponry, three of them has a huge nuclear weapon power. We hope that the blackmailing between N.Korea and US does not turn into a shooting, it may not limited a shooting between both of them and may spread to other countries. We hope that this event would end within the framework of political talks. 




 

 

If we look at past events......did the USA ever used a nuclear bomb?  Twice!  Japan.  

It was during WW2 - and it ended the war in the Pacific, pronto!

http://www.historynet.com/world-war-ii-second-atomic-bomb-that-ended-the-war.htm

 

If the USA had wanted to abuse its power and ransack all  countries - it would've done so.

Throughout history........the USA has always been the "great protector."

Edited August 11, 2017 by betsy

[hot enough]

1 hour ago, betsy said:

If the USA had wanted to abuse its power and ransack all  countries - it would've done so.

Throughout history........the USA has always been the "great protector."

A stunning lie, Betsy. Isn't that a major sin for you? And the people who remain silent when they know the truth are equally liars.

Protectors don't slaughter tens of millions of people. Protectors don't murder children in planned genocides. Protectors don't steal others wealth. In point of fact, you support and encourage everything evil that you as a "christian" are supposed to be against. 

Quote

Killing Hope

by William Blum

excerpted from the Introduction to the Original Edition

 

It was in the early days of the fighting in Vietnam that a Vietcong officer said to his American prisoner: "You were our heroes after the War. We read American books and saw American films, and a common phrase in those days was 'to be as rich and as wise as an American'. What happened?"

An American might have been asked something similar by a Guatemalan, an Indonesian or a Cuban during the ten years previous, or by a Uruguayan, a Chilean or a Greek in the decade subsequent. The remarkable international goodwill and credibility enjoyed by the United States at the close of the Second World War was dissipated country by country, intervention by intervention.

... The members of [the military-industrial-intelligence complex] ... need enemies - the military and the CIA because enemies are their raison d'etre, industry, specifically the defense contractors, because enemies are to be fought, with increasingly sophisticated weaponry and aircraft systems; enemies of our enemies are to be armed, to the teeth. It's made these corporations wealthier than many countries of the world; in one year the US spends on the military more than $17,000 per hour, for every hour since Jesus Christ was born. The executives of these corporations have long moved effortlessly through a revolving door between industry and government service, members in good standing of the good ol' boys club who continue to use their positions, their wealth, and their influence, along with a compliant and indispensable media, ... to nourish and perpetuate the fear of "communism, the enemy" now in its seventh decade and going strong. Given the nature and machinations of the military-industrial- intelligence complex, interventions against these enemies are inevitable, and, from the complex's point of view, highly desirable.

In cases such as ... Grenada, El Salvador, and Nicaragua, even if the particular target of intervention does not present an immediate lucrative economic opportunity for American multinationals, the target's socialist-revolutionary program and rhetoric does present a threat and a challenge which the United States has repeatedly felt obliged to stamp out, to maintain the principle, and as a warning to others; for what the US has always feared from the Third World is the emergence of a good example: a flourishing socialist society independent of Washington. Governments and movements with such programs and rhetoric are clearly not going to be cold-war allies, are clearly "communist", and thus are eminently credible candidates for the category of enemy.

Inextricably bound up with these motivations is a far older seducer of men and nations, the lust for power: the acquisition, maintenance, use and enjoyment of influence and prestige; the incomparable elation that derives from molding the world in your own beloved image.

In all these paradigms, "communist" is often no more than the name ascribed to those people who stand in the way of the realization of such ambitions (as "national security" is the name given for the reason for fighting "communists"). It is another twist of the old adage: if communists didn't exist, the United States would have to invent them. And so they have. The word "communist" (as well as "Marxist") has been so overused and so abused by American leaders and the media as to render it virtually meaningless. (The left has done the same to the word "fascist".) But merely having a name for something - witches or flying saucers-attaches a certain credence to it.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Foreign_Policy/Killing_Hope.html

 

[Bonam]

I think from the perspective of North Korean leadership, they are acting logically. There are pretty much two threats to any regime remaining in power: internal and external. The internal threat is addressed by massive surveillance, censorship, purges, indoctrination, and terror. The external threat is addressed through deterrence, and there is no better deterrence than nuclear weapons. Any country in possession of nuclear weapons or close to being in possession of nuclear weapons would have to be completely insane to give up that guarantee of their safety from foreign interference in exchange for a piece of paper. We all know what promises and treaties are worth: less than the paper they are written on.

 

 

[hot enough]

Finally, some honesty. I applaud you, Bonam.

It only needs to be mentioned that that internal threat is almost always generated by the US, with occasional help from the UK, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, ... . This is why countries that have had exposure to the US often have tightly controlled societies, fear of the CIA/US governments' terrorist squads pouring huge sums in. 

[bush_cheney2004]

These nations possessed yet relinquished nuclear weapons in exchange for internal and external objectives:

Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan, and South Africa.

Brazil, Argentina, Iraq, and Libya dismantled their nuclear weapons programs voluntarily or were forced to do so.  

Japan, Germany, and South Korea also gave up their nuclear bomb aspirations, but retain the capability to develop nukes, as do other nations.

Other nations depend on the forward deployment of bombs from other nations (e.g. U.S. controlled nuclear warheads in NATO countries).

Many more nations would logically develop nuclear weapons if they are a guaranteed deterrent to external threats, but even existing nuclear powers have still been attacked by external conventional forces.

 

[drummindiver]

20 hours ago, hot enough said:

A stunning lie, Betsy. Isn't that a major sin for you? And the people who remain silent when they know the truth are equally liars.

Protectors don't slaughter tens of millions of people. Protectors don't murder children in planned genocides. Protectors don't steal others wealth. In point of fact, you support and encourage everything evil that you as a "christian" are supposed to be against. 

 

Are you actually William Blum trying to advance your insipid nonsense? Pretty sure less people read those long diatribes than read your ramblings. 

[drummindiver]

9 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Many more nations would logically develop nuclear weapons if they are a guaranteed deterrent to external threats, but even existing nuclear powers have still been attacked by external conventional forces.

 

India and Pakistan have brought us closer to nuclear war than any other countries while engaging in 'conventional" warfare . Clearly shows why despot regimes including Iran must be stopped from having them. NK just goes without saying.

[Bonam]

22 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

These nations possessed yet relinquished nuclear weapons in exchange for internal and external objectives:

Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan, and South Africa.

And we saw how that turned out for Ukraine. How much was their guarantee of territorial integrity worth when push came to shove? Not much. If Ukraine had its Soviet era nuclear arsenal, it is unlikely Putin would ever have sought conflict there. 

Quote

Brazil, Argentina, Iraq, and Libya dismantled their nuclear weapons programs voluntarily or were forced to do so. 

Would the US have been so eager to intervene in Iraq if it had functional nuclear weapons? Would NATO have gone into Libya if it had nuclear weapons? Nope. 

Quote

Many more nations would logically develop nuclear weapons if they are a guaranteed deterrent to external threats, but even existing nuclear powers have still been attacked by external conventional forces.

Nothing is guaranteed, but there is no arguing that nukes are a huge deterrent. That will perhaps become less so as the US and other nations develop credible missile defense systems that could be trusted to intercept ICBMs or other nuclear warhead delivery methods with a high degree of certainty. But until then, any nation that finds itself at odds with the international community can hold no better trump card than a nuclear weapons capability. 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, Bonam said:

And we saw how that turned out for Ukraine. How much was their guarantee of territorial integrity worth when push came to shove? Not much. If Ukraine had its Soviet era nuclear arsenal, it is unlikely Putin would ever have sought conflict there.

 

It is less likely, but not improbable given the methods that Putin used.   It is not a foregone conclusion that Ukraine would have launched nuclear strikes against Russia or invading forces, or even threatened to do so given the politics of those regions.   Nuclear weapons are a deterrent for principally other NBC weapons attacks.

 

Quote

Would the US have been so eager to intervene in Iraq if it had functional nuclear weapons? Would NATO have gone into Libya if it had nuclear weapons? Nope.

 

Depends on other factors related to demonstrated capability and delivery systems.   Israel would not hesitate to extinguish such a regional threat.

To be effective as a deterrent, a nuclear weapons capability must be credible, reliable, and survivable.

 

Quote

Nothing is guaranteed, but there is no arguing that nukes are a huge deterrent. That will perhaps become less so as the US and other nations develop credible missile defense systems that could be trusted to intercept ICBMs or other nuclear warhead delivery methods with a high degree of certainty. But until then, any nation that finds itself at odds with the international community can hold no better trump card than a nuclear weapons capability. 

 

Except when it can't, including the United States.    Conventional attacks by state actors and terrorists are still common against nuclear weapons nations.

The DPRK already had/has a massive conventional forces deterrent staged to wipe out Seoul and other parts of South Korea.

[kactus]

This is pretty much similar to the role Saudi Arabia plays in the Middle East...Iran is supposedly the bad guy so let's arm the saudis with american made weapons so they defend themselves....

US sells this fabrication to the joe public in the name of democracy! Democracy my ar$e....

[sharkman]

On 8/10/2017 at 2:44 PM, Altai said:

Why would an ordinary and small country  need to challange the World's richest army with the most facilities ? Why would they continuously try to provoke and take attention of a sleeping bear ? Does this sound logical to you ? If you are a sheep, yes this may sound logical. I am not a sheep and I am questioning. Once in my school I was running in the hallway and I said to a guy "Look at the front you idiot" and I didnt know that this guy was the most problematic and criminal guy of my school. He searched to find me for two days and finally he found me in my class. He asked me "Hey, did you call me idiot or I just heard wrong" and I said "yeah sorry I think you just heard wrong" and he simply walked away. So I am trying to say that no normal person would challange against someones who has an irresistible advantageous position. There is no real reason for Northern Korea to challange US because US and its allies around N.Korea can easily sweep N.Korea into the ocean. There is only one logical result, Northern Korea is just playing the role given them by someones, probably by US. They are just creating reason for US to settle around China, like as settling in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan under the pretext of figthing so-called terror organizations. If N.Korea was really a danger for US, do you think that US would miss such a target since long years ? 

1)  north korea would never, never, never take any role that the United States gave them or wanted them to perform and it's silly to suggest such a thing.  north korea HATES the US like an islam terrorist.

2)  You've mistakenly used the word "logic" in a sentence regarding north korea.  One day you will realize that some types of people have no logic.  None.  That's because their cheese has slid off their cracker, if you know what I mean.  So get some time in.  Maybe read about how Britain's Chamberlain got Germany to sign a peace treaty and then proclaimed "peace in our time".  Again, with some folks, there is only deception, lies, bullying and hate.  

[ZenOps]

I agree with survival.  US killed about 900,000 North Korean cilivians back in the day.  The US also killed about 2 million Vietnamese civilians back in the day.

While Vietnam could have been considered a war against communism, North Korea is most definitely not communist even if they have communist neighbors.  North Korea is much more Imperialistic with the Kim Jongs being "god-kings" instead of British Imperial Queen Elizabeth II "god-queen".   Now, one must remember that the US did have one of its most bloody wars against Imperialism as well, the war for freedom against British Imperial rule - so its definitely not out of character for the US to fight Imperialism.

To bomb people to get them to achieve democracy is a very tough sell.

US is only "rich" because of agression.  Andersen air force base in Guam is worth $800 (eight hundred dollars) because that is what it costs in Uranium to nuke it from the planet, but ask a US military general, and he will ensure you that a single plane stationed in Guam is worth $2 Billion.   Its a matter of perspective, is a mans life worth a $1 bullet if you pull the trigger?

I hope that millennials in the US realize that their lawmakers like McCain have broken the first and foremost law of god on several occasions, on 22 indiscriminate bombing runs as a teen.

 

Edited August 18, 2017 by ZenOps

[DogOnPorch]

Both North Viet-Nam and North Korea started those respective conflicts.

Not the USA.

[Wilber]

15 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Both North Viet-Nam and North Korea started those respective conflicts.

Not the USA.

True thing.