Compensating Khadr

[Hal 9000]

9 minutes ago, Omni said:

What a silly comment. In fact in this case Canadian laws were broken, human rights were denied. The courts have shown that and so compensation was required. I wasn't in Afghanistan to see what really happened, and neither were you, but 10 years in jail with no access to legal council is against our, and US laws, except in this case access to law was denied by creating a basically illegal prison on foreign soil. Better handling of the case may have produced an outcome more in line with you rant.

I don't give a shit what the courts said, my post was directed at your excitement for this douche bag's good fortune and the manor in which our PM (another douche bag) handled it.

This POS and his family was given chance after chance and shit on this country every time, now he say's "this restores his reputation"...with who?  With the taxpayers who are flipping the bill, the veterans that he's tried killing - and likely still would, the government that is shamed into apologizing?  No, while you idiots shed tears of enjoyment for this killer, this piece of trash is laughing at us.  The only reputation that he's restored is that of a sociopathic terrorist.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Hal 9000

[Omni]

6 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

I don't give a shit what the courts said,

You can hyperventilate and hurl all the insults you like. The courts have to interpret and apply the law and are therefore held to a much higher standard. I'm not a fan of Khadir but I how the courts applied the law. Perhaps this should be a lesson to the US with regard to setting up illegal operations like Gitmo.

[Hal 9000]

WTF aren't you understanding about my posts?  Geez, I thought it was clear the first time, then after explaining a second time - wow dude!  Just how many mercury injections have you had?

[Omni]

3 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

WTF aren't you understanding about my posts

There's nothing really to understand. You're just ranting with no basis. 

[cannuck]

6 hours ago, Omni said:

You can hyperventilate and hurl all the insults you like. The courts have to interpret and apply the law and are therefore held to a much higher standard. I'm not a fan of Khadir but I how the courts applied the law. Perhaps this should be a lesson to the US with regard to setting up illegal operations like Gitmo.

"HIGHER" standard????????     Geez, give me a break.  The courts have demonstrated time and again that the two-bit ambulance chasers will provide whatever political result their masters find expedient.    Answer me this:  where was the outrage when Andy McMechan was jailed????????

As even you must admit, the outrage that the vast majority of Canadians and even outsiders feel over this shows that Goodale stepped far, far over the line on this one.  No, I don;t mention Turdeau, as anything beyond brushing his hair and teeth are up to his handlers and beyond his grasp.

[jacee]

16 hours ago, Argus said:

Oh of course it's the majority.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/08/22/canada-doesnt-want-khadr-back-poll

There is so much wrong with that Sun article, I'm not bothering to parse it.

The 2012 poll isn't there.

[jacee]

18 hours ago, capricorn said:

In mulling over the comments made by Goodale at the press conference, one thing sticks out for me. We know that the Supreme Court did not put a dollar figure on the compensation to be paid to Khadr. Goodale stressed that agreeing to the negotiated compensation was done because not doing so could have resulted in the court setting a higher amount, perhaps $20M, the amount claimed by Khadr and his lawyers. Here's my question: how does Goodale know that the court would not have set the compensation at a much lower amount than $10.5M? How does Goodale know the court would have awarded the maximum claimed by the plaintiffs? Or, is it that the government does not have confidence in their lawyers to properly argue the case before the courts.

Bottom line, I would have more respect for the Liberals had they enabled the process of compensation to go forward in court. At least the Liberals could have said "We tried to get the best financial outcome possible." Seems to me most Canadians would have responded well.

The courts don't like assigning dollar awards, encourage parties to come to agreement themselves.

He was held, interrogated and tortured for 10 years without trial, without due process. Canada collaborated and participated in that process, all violations of his Charter rights as determined by the Supreme Court.

[jacee]

7 hours ago, Hal 9000 said:

I don't give a shit what the courts said, my post was directed at your excitement for this douche bag's good fortune and the manor in which our PM (another douche bag) handled it.

This POS and his family was given chance after chance and shit on this country every time, now he say's "this restores his reputation"...with who?  With the taxpayers who are flipping the bill, the veterans that he's tried killing - and likely still would, the government that is shamed into apologizing?  No, while you idiots shed tears of enjoyment for this killer, this piece of trash is laughing at us.  The only reputation that he's restored is that of a sociopathic terrorist.

Omar Khadr can only be held responsible for his own behaviour as an adult.

Omar Khadr has never "shit on this country".

It is disgusting that some people want to punish him for the behaviour of other members of his family. That violates every legal principle that guides civil society.

Some people need to try hard to  think a little more maturely. :/

Edited July 8, 2017 by jacee

[Stan]

I have no doubts his rights were violated, but I also don't believe that he was a "child"  that's an arbitrary definition, and many of the same people who cling to it would in almost the same breathe tell you that the voting age should be lowered, on top of that many so called children of that age tried to volunteer to fight for us during the world wars, some succesfully.  He knew what he was doing, and he chose to build bombs that may have killed many people and maybe threw a grenade that killed at least one, over defying his father, which we have no evidence at all that he ever considered doing.  In my opinion he behaved as the enemy and deserved to be treated as such, as it seems his whole family was prone to doing.  However his rights were violated and that's why we have laws.

The most galling thing about the settlement for me is to have to watch Ralph Goodale scold conservatives when he was an mp in the government that was found guilty of abusing Khadr's rights, it wasn't conservatives, it was the liberals, meanwhile the internet is full of trolls trying to convince every fool with a computer that it was evil old harper that violated his rights, it wasn't.  They simply did not volunteer to bring him back, but they did so when they were told to, unlike the previous liberal government, they did not violate his rights, it's their fault we are paying this settlement, why aren't all of those people who bleed for Khadr demanding that the LPC pay this settlement?  It is voluntary, they could have kept fighting him in court, and yes, probably lose, but 10-15 million more fighting a man who may have killed some of our own soldiers with IED's is worth it imo, we spend that every minute.  My opinion is that the leaders of this liberal party wanted to help him, they sympathise with him, it's a seemingly common feeling on the left, and make no mistake, the people pulling the Pm's strings aren't traditional liberals.

[Stan]

15 minutes ago, jacee said:

The courts don't like assigning dollar awards, encourage parties to come to agreement themselves.

He was held, interrogated and tortured for 10 years without trial, without due process. Canada collaborated and participated in that process, all violations of his Charter rights as determined by the Supreme Court.

He was not interrogated or tortured, for 10 years, that's a lie.  The supreme court has nothing to do with the civil law suit or the settlement, aside from providing evidence of a judgement that his rights were violated.

[jacee]

18 hours ago, ironstone said:

Canada is truly the land of milk and honey isn't it?Apparently it doesn't say much for the vetting process(what vetting process?) for people from that hate-filled part of the world.I keep thinking of the idiotic Liberal phrase,"A Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian!".It's all about political correctness,progressive thinking and nothing to do with common sense or right or wrong.

It's truly shameful.

 

It appears that Canada did not pick up on his father's AlQuaeda bagman activities at the time he immigrated. That is in no way the fault of his son Omar, who was born in Canada.

There seems to be some failure of intelligence or comprehension here that some people here confuse Omar with his father: He was a child doing what his father demanded.

No other child soldier in the world has ever been convicted of crimes in war, except Omar Khadr. And that is largely because Canada failed to protect his Charter rights and in fact participated in his illegal ill treatment.

And some of Canada's failure can be blamed on public wailing and gnashing of teeth of conservatives with no respect for Charter rights, who want him to pay for his father's crimes.

That's disgusting.

[capricorn]

4 minutes ago, jacee said:

No other child soldier in the world has ever been convicted of crimes in war, except Omar Khadr. And that is largely because Canada failed to protect his Charter rights and in fact participated in his illegal ill treatment.

Quote

Khadr’s supporters see him as a “child soldier” and liken the military tribunal that convicted him to a kangaroo court.

According to testimony from lawyer Howard Anglin, speaking before the House of Commons’ international human rights subcommittee in 2008, Khadr was not a child soldier under international law, and his military tribunal was conducted in accordance with Geneva Convention standards.

Anglin cited a claim from Khadr’s own former military lawyer, Lt.-Cmdr. William Kuebler, that no law or treaty prevents prosecution of minors for war crimes.

Former United Nations human rights prosecutor David Crane agreed, saying it was a matter of prosecutorial discretion.

http://globalnews.ca/news/3580028/commentary-omar-khadr-should-be-charged-with-treason-not-given-10-5-million/

[jacee]

15 minutes ago, Stan said:

I have no doubts his rights were violated, but I also don't believe that he was a "child"  that's an arbitrary definition, and many of the same people who cling to it would in almost the same breathe tell you that the voting age should be lowered, on top of that many so called children of that age tried to volunteer to fight for us during the world wars, some succesfully.  He knew what he was doing, and he chose to build bombs that may have killed many people and maybe threw a grenade that killed at least one, over defying his father, which we have no evidence at all that he ever considered doing.  In my opinion he behaved as the enemy and deserved to be treated as such, as it seems his whole family was prone to doing.  However his rights were violated and that's why we have laws.

The most galling thing about the settlement for me is to have to watch Ralph Goodale scold conservatives when he was an mp in the government that was found guilty of abusing Khadr's rights, it wasn't conservatives, it was the liberals, meanwhile the internet is full of trolls trying to convince every fool with a computer that it was evil old harper that violated his rights, it wasn't.  They simply did not volunteer to bring him back, but they did so when they were told to, unlike the previous liberal government, they did not violate his rights, it's their fault we are paying this settlement, why aren't all of those people who bleed for Khadr demanding that the LPC pay this settlement?  It is voluntary, they could have kept fighting him in court, and yes, probably lose, but 10-15 million more fighting a man who may have killed some of our own soldiers with IED's is worth it imo, we spend that every minute.  My opinion is that the leaders of this liberal party wanted to help him, they sympathise with him, it's a seemingly common feeling on the left, and make no mistake, the people pulling the Pm's strings aren't traditional liberals.

Persue it as a political issue if you want, but it's really just a legal issue now, and the Government of Canada has been found liable by the court.

 

[eyeball]

7 minutes ago, Stan said:

The most galling thing about the settlement for me is to have to watch Ralph Goodale scold conservatives when he was an mp in the government that was found guilty of abusing Khadr's rights, it wasn't conservatives, it was the liberals,

 

It was Liberals not liberals and both conservatives and Conservatives were screaming for Khadr's head every inch of the way.

Lefties have never had anything to do with Khadr's maltreatment.  This started out as a right-wing freak show and it,s been a right-wing freak show since day one.

[capricorn]

32 minutes ago, jacee said:

The courts don't like assigning dollar awards, encourage parties to come to agreement themselves.

Without researching it, I can tell you offhand that Human Rights Tribunals do assign dollar awards.

[jacee]

3 minutes ago, capricorn said:

http://globalnews.ca/news/3580028/commentary-omar-khadr-should-be-charged-with-treason-not-given-10-5-million/

Load of crap.

No understanding of law.

[jacee]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

 

It was Liberals not liberals and both conservatives and Conservatives were screaming for Khadr's head every inch of the way.

Lefties have never had anything to do with Khadr's maltreatment.  This started out as a right-wing freak show and it,s been a right-wing freak show since day one.

Not quite true: Chretien was PM when Khadr was incarcerated, and refused to help him. Then Harper also.

But politics are irrelevant to the Government of Canada's liability.

 

[capricorn]

2 minutes ago, jacee said:

Load of crap.

No understanding of law.

Of course, any opinion that does mirror yours is crap.

[scribblet]

The court did not find any financial liability, they did not have to pay him anything.    Khadr was no 'child' soldier especially under his own religion, neither was he tortured for 10 years.  It is completely reprehensible that our PM  should expedite a cheque in such a hurry in order that they could obstruct a court case, deliberately denying the widow justice.  The whole thing stinks and IMO Trudeau should resign in part because of the way this was done.   This is one of the most underhanded backroom deals the Liberals have ever done, and that's going some.     

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/khadr-wasnt-tortured-military-judge-rules/article1214912/

 

 

 

 

[scribblet]

6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

 

It was Liberals not liberals and both conservatives and Conservatives were screaming for Khadr's head every inch of the way.

Lefties have never had anything to do with Khadr's maltreatment.  This started out as a right-wing freak show and it,s been a right-wing freak show since day one.

Surely you jest..   

[capricorn]

1 minute ago, jacee said:

 Chretien was PM when Khadr was incarcerated, and refused to help him. Then Harper also.

Correction. It was Harper's government that orchestrated his repatriation to Canada. I wouldn't call that refusal to help.

[scribblet]

As far as I'm concerned this says it well and better than I can.   BTW, don't forget that S.C. actually  overturned  rulings which required that the Harper gov't.  should try to repatriate Khadr because they said.this would have interfered with its right to set foreign policy.

http://www.torontosun.com/2017/07/07/trudeau-treating-khadr-with-kid-gloves

Khadr defected to al-Qaida, built bombs and was convicted of throwing the grenade that killed Sgt. Christopher Speer and maimed Sgt. Layne Morris.

Before Khadr was transferred to Guantanamo Bay, before he was subject to enhanced interrogation by American officials, Khadr doubled down on his terrorism.

In a statement of facts signed by Khadr in 2002, he said he threw the grenade “with the specific intent of killing or injuring as many Americans as he could.”

When he was interviewed three months later, Khadr said he “felt happy when he heard he had killed an American,” and just thinking about it made him “feel good.”

Khadr doesn’t deserve an apology. Canada should not treat traitors and enemies the same way we treat loyal citizens.

[jacee]

15 minutes ago, capricorn said:

Correction. It was Harper's government that orchestrated his repatriation to Canada. I wouldn't call that refusal to help.

You're right, after trial.

 But he left him in Gitmo for years and sent CSIS to interrogate him, violating Khadr's Charter rights instead of providing support in upholding them.

I have no horse in the Lib-Con race. They are both at fault, and regardless, it is the Government of Canada's liability now.

Trudeau is just doing what the GoC is ordered to do by the courts. 

[jacee]

17 minutes ago, scribblet said:

As far as I'm concerned this says it well and better than I can.   BTW, don't forget that S.C. actually  overturned  rulings which required that the Harper gov't.  should try to repatriate Khadr because they said.this would have interfered with its right to set foreign policy.

http://www.torontosun.com/2017/07/07/trudeau-treating-khadr-with-kid-gloves

Khadr defected to al-Qaida, built bombs and was convicted of throwing the grenade that killed Sgt. Christopher Speer and maimed Sgt. Layne Morris.

Before Khadr was transferred to Guantanamo Bay, before he was subject to enhanced interrogation by American officials, Khadr doubled down on his terrorism.

In a statement of facts signed by Khadr in 2002, he said he threw the grenade “with the specific intent of killing or injuring as many Americans as he could.”

When he was interviewed three months later, Khadr said he “felt happy when he heard he had killed an American,” and just thinking about it made him “feel good.”

Khadr doesn’t deserve an apology. Canada should not treat traitors and enemies the same way we treat loyal citizens.

Omar Khadr "defected to AlQuaida" ... at 10 years of age???!!!

"He should not be entitled to the full protection of Canada’s charter of rights and freedoms."

Every Canadian, guilty or innocent, at home or abroad, is entitled to best efforts to uphold their Charter Rights.

Where does the Sun find these stupid people to write such stupid stuff??

 

Edited July 8, 2017 by jacee

[eyeball]

38 minutes ago, jacee said:

Not quite true: Chretien was PM when Khadr was incarcerated, and refused to help him. Then Harper also.

 

Chretien and the Liberals are as right-wing as any Conservative, as equally evidenced by their focus on the distribution of power.