bush_cheney2004 Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said: No, it's different in major ways. Amorality isn't your forté anyway, as you are a patriot first before a logician. Whatever works for you....Trump is just another U.S. artifact that shapes your perception....not reality. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 28 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Trump is just another U.S. artifact that shapes your perception....not reality. He's also lens through which perception is more un-focused than focused...reality is what it is regardless. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
OftenWrong Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 6 hours ago, bcsapper said: I think we had proof that ethical behavior was no longer the domain of the religious long before Donald Trump came along. I took it to mean Donald Trump is Satan. Quote
blackbird Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 5 hours ago, ?Impact said: I don't think that was the point, it is that so called Christians and their leaders are willing to forego their supposed ethics at the polling booth. Why, because they supported Trump? Wasn't much choice and he did promise to do some things to oppose the liberals/Dems anti-christian agenda. Ethics is not on the ballot, only fallible people with all their warts. 1 Quote
Antares Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) On 19/01/2018 at 10:11 PM, blackbird said: Probably better to get back to the topic evidence for God. The very fact that evidence for God is a topic worth discussing implies that the god in question is a pretty poor one. My wife is a mere human being, but I don't need evidence for her existence. So why do we need it for God? Edited January 22, 2018 by Antares Correcting a possible misreading. Quote
Antares Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 One thing I don't understand is why people so often refer to the creation/evolution debate as if it had two incompatible sides: one claiming that the world was created intelligently, the other claiming that biological evolution is going on. There's no logical obstacle to believing that an evolving world was originally created by design. Quote
John Prewett Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 15 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. There is no Satan. .......... Your unproven opinion is noted. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 16 minutes ago, John Prewett said: Your unproven opinion is noted. As is yours. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
John Prewett Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Antares said: On 1/20/2018 at 4:11 AM, blackbird said: Probably better to get back to the topic evidence for God. In the Vatican and her Prot children, millions for centuries have seen perfect fulfillment of Rev 17&18 confirming truth of Jesus and NT. It was a major battle cry of the Reformation which took the world out from under the thumb of the Vatican-Pope. At least for a while. Along with millions, I see perfect fulfillment of OT prediction Israel would be dispersed and re-gathered. and AWAIT the Ezekiel 38-39, Zechariah 12-14, Joel 3, Psalms 83, Isaiah 17 predicted invasion of Israel. Most on earth today will see [TV + internet] this invasion. [invaders will be annihilated, btw] Along with millions for centuries, I see the awesome pro-GodoftheBible impact Jesus had+has on the world. We see that Jesus perfectly fulfilled OT Messiah prediction [like Isaiah 53]. I AWAIT the Revelation 13 revealed world amazing reappearance of the final "beast". [will be JFK, btw, with Kissinger as his "head cheerleader"] This will occur around same time as the invasion of Israel. Most living on earth today will see this world amazing reappearance. Only my contention of specifically JFK and HK is not shared by millions. Along with millions for centuries, I see life around us is far too complex and organized to have come into being by sheer time and chance. Preceding are some reasons that along with millions for centuries, I know Jesus Christ is alive with power. But the above did not cause me to come to believe in Jesus. I initially came to believe [in Nov 1973] when I finally realized I needed help and asked Him “if you are alive, please help me” And He helped me. http://www.mosquitonet.com/~prewett/ Quote
Guest Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 2 hours ago, John Prewett said: Your unproven opinion is noted. 1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said: As is yours. Santa's existence isn't proven either. Don't think for a minute that the anagram is a coincidence... Quote
John Prewett Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 I should not have said "unproven". My bad. Atheism is un-evidenced. For God's existence and contact with humanity, there is tremendous evidence. Quote
?Impact Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 13 minutes ago, John Prewett said: I should not have said "unproven". My bad. Atheism is un-evidenced. For God's existence and contact with humanity, there is tremendous evidence. Atheism is a label created by bible thumpers on others to excuse their complete lack of any evidence of God. A fairy tale is not evidence of anything but an active imagination. Quote
blackbird Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 5 hours ago, Antares said: The very fact that evidence for God is a topic worth discussing implies that the god in question is a pretty poor one. My wife is a mere human being, but I don't need evidence for her existence. So why do we need it for God? Your comment very much sounds like the bald statements that have already been tossed out in one way or another over and over, but prove nothing. I hope you have read some of the preceding discussion. Otherwise we keep having to repeat every point over and over. I urge you to read some previous comments and speak to them. Essentially the believers in God accept the creation all around us as clear evidence that God exists. Quote
?Impact Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 On 1/18/2018 at 10:10 PM, blackbird said: I somehow doubt you gave any time to watching the creation-evolution debate on the video link above. His debate on creation-evolution on youtube is still an excellent debate worth watching. Is is not a debate, it is a propaganda stunt. He is an arrogant fellow, that relies on continual pejoratives and doesn't provide a single piece of evidence for his creationist fairy tale. His entire premise is that science doesn't have all the answers - ergo God. That is a facile argument that is devoid of any reason. He was judged by man for his criminal activities and appropriately sentenced, let his God save him. Quote
blackbird Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, ?Impact said: Is is not a debate, it is a propaganda stunt. He is an arrogant fellow, that relies on continual pejoratives and doesn't provide a single piece of evidence for his creationist fairy tale. His entire premise is that science doesn't have all the answers - ergo God. That is a facile argument that is devoid of any reason. He was judged by man for his criminal activities and appropriately sentenced, let his God save him. God has already saved him. He's home free. If he's not in prison for the questionable charges, he does about 900 speaking tours a year. He is the evolutionist's worse nightmare because he makes it very clear. The U.S. justice is quite different than Canada's. That would be an interesting study on it's own. Probably interesting to read some of the stories about the wrongly convicted. We have seen some movies telling true stories about it. Seems justice is heavily effected by politics, money, powerful lawyers, and of course bias for various reasons. I guess that's still the best system in the world, but not always fair or correct. We see how many people's judgment is often effected even in politics with the election of Trudeau. The world is far from a perfect place and if one thinks the justice system is an exception, he is fooling himself. Debating the existence of God may be kind of like a dog chasing his tail. It always seems within reach, but he never reaches it. I could re-hash some of the points, but don't want to sound repetitious. You know the points, the evidence in the creation, the complexity of creation and the fact, I believe, it couldn't just happen by itself but had to have a designer-creator. And the Holy Scriptures, which if you haven't studied, will not mean much to you. Edited January 22, 2018 by blackbird Quote
?Impact Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, blackbird said: God has already saved him. He's home free. If he's not in prison for the questionable charges, he does about 900 speaking tours a year. He is the evolutionist's worse nightmare because he makes it very clear. No, he makes it simple. Appealing to simpletons does not make something right. There was nothing questionable about his charges, he is a scam artist and has a long history of being one. Quote And the Holy Scriptures, which if you haven't studied, will not mean much to you. Harry Potter is much more interesting to read. Edited January 22, 2018 by ?Impact Quote
blackbird Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, ?Impact said: No, he makes it simple. Appealing to simpletons does not make something right. There was nothing questionable about his charges, he is a scam artist and has a long history of being one. Harry Potter is much more interesting to read. 3 minutes ago, ?Impact said: No, he makes it simple. Appealing to simpletons does not make something right. There was nothing questionable about his charges, he is a scam artist and has a long history of being one. Harry Potter is much more interesting to read. There are tons of articles and videos on youtube. If you are hung up on this fellow, you can check some other's. He has gifted way of speaking that makes him in great demand. Unfortunately the scientists they picked to defend evolution are poor speakers. One is not too bad, but I'm sure there are better speakers on youtube. Quote
?Impact Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 Just now, blackbird said: There are tons of articles and videos on youtube. If you are hung up on this fellow, you can check some other's. He has gifted way of speaking that makes him in great demand. Unfortunately the scientists they picked to defend evolution are poor speakers. One is not too bad, but I'm sure there are better speakers on youtube. What part of this was his propaganda stunt don't you understand. He scripted the bloody thing, if you pay attention he at least twice berates the moderator for going off track. There is nothing gifted about spouting nonsense, and saying "duh!" as if it makes you appear intelligent. Anyone with a grade 3 or higher education would see this scam artist for what he is. He cries that nobody will "debate" him, when all he wants is attention like a spoiled child. He has nothing to offer. Quote
blackbird Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, ?Impact said: What part of this was his propaganda stunt don't you understand. He scripted the bloody thing, if you pay attention he at least twice berates the moderator for going off track. There is nothing gifted about spouting nonsense, and saying "duh!" as if it makes you appear intelligent. Anyone with a grade 3 or higher education would see this scam artist for what he is. He cries that nobody will "debate" him, when all he wants is attention like a spoiled child. He has nothing to offer. Well, I didn't see him that way. Funny how different people view things differently. I may have a look again and watch a bit of it. But you have to admit, you approached it with a bias against it. That might be part of the problem. Our preconceived ideas can colour our thinking. Edited January 22, 2018 by blackbird Quote
blackbird Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 8 minutes ago, ?Impact said: What part of this was his propaganda stunt don't you understand. He scripted the bloody thing, if you pay attention he at least twice berates the moderator for going off track. There is nothing gifted about spouting nonsense, and saying "duh!" as if it makes you appear intelligent. Anyone with a grade 3 or higher education would see this scam artist for what he is. He cries that nobody will "debate" him, when all he wants is attention like a spoiled child. He has nothing to offer. OK, I just looked at the introduction and a minute of Hovind speaking. He speaks fast. But he speaks clearly and makes his points very succintly. He asks a great question. "If evolution is correct, how do you decide right from wrong?" Can you answer that, if evolution is true and there is no God, how do you decide right from wrong? Quote
?Impact Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, blackbird said: I may have a look again and watch a bit of it. You time would be far better spent reading Douglas Theobald,, and even the Creationist nitwits see Hovind as an embarrassment. 3 minutes ago, blackbird said: "If evolution is correct, how do you decide right from wrong?" Can you answer that, if evolution is true and there is no God, how do you decide right from wrong? Certainly not from a book of fairy tales. There are many things that society considered right a century ago and clearly no longer do. There are many 'rights' in scripture that are completely against modern thinking, and in fact scripture fails to be consistent on right and wrong (eg. promoting murder in many places). Quote
blackbird Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 1 minute ago, ?Impact said: You time would be far better spent reading Douglas Theobald,, and even the Creationist nitwits see Hovind as an embarrassment. Certainly not from a book of fairy tales. There are many things that society considered right a century ago and clearly no longer do. There are many 'rights' in scripture that are completely against modern thinking, and in fact scripture fails to be consistent on right and wrong (eg. promoting murder in many places). You still haven't answered the question. How do YOU decide right from wrong? No prevarication. Quote
?Impact Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 Just now, blackbird said: You still haven't answered the question. How do YOU decide right from wrong? No prevarication. Neither has Horvid, or didn't you get that point. Quote
blackbird Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 1 minute ago, ?Impact said: Neither has Horvid, or didn't you get that point. So you admit you can't answer that question. Let me know if you come up with an answer. Until you do, you can't say you have any sound basis for not believing in God. Quote
?Impact Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, blackbird said: So you admit you can't answer that question. Let me know if you come up with an answer. Until you do, you can't say you have any sound basis for not believing in God. Yes, the common Creationist default. In light of no answer - ergo God. Sorry, but believing in magic is something most of us left behind in our childhood. Quote
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