Canadian Muslims demanding end to free speech / Canada's Anti-Islamophobia Committee will begin meetings next month

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

If you have scorn for that organization, how can you not have scorn for those who dedicate their lives to the beliefs of that organization? Who wrap themselves in bedsheets every day of their lives, for example, because of that organization?

I do.

 

I think that's what I said in my previous post.  Of course, there are degrees.

Edited March 8, 2017 by bcsapper

[Argus]

Just now, bcsapper said:

Is there actually anyone on here, anyone at all, who thinks that there is anything, anything at all, that should be exempt from scorn?

I'm sure there are. If you look at some of the laws in Europe designed by progressives they make it very clear that any sort of speech which offends people of a particular race, ethnicity or religion is criminal and will be punished.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

I'm sure there are. If you look at some of the laws in Europe designed by progressives they make it very clear that any sort of speech which offends people of a particular race, ethnicity or religion is criminal and will be punished.

Oh, I know there are boatloads of people who fit that particular bill.  I just wondered if there was anyone on here who would admit to such feelings, and defend them.

[Argus]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

I do.

So do I. This is the contradiction in the statement that you can have disrespect for Islam but not for Muslims. If a Muslim believes in the tripe which fills the Koran, about how to treat non-Muslims, about womens rights, about punishments for blaspheme and apostasy, then I can't possibly respect them. How can anyone respect a woman who wears a robe over her body and head every day, everywhere she goes, because she thinks God wants it that way?

The same goes for Sikhs and Ultra-Orthodox Jews. You need to wear a turban to keep your hair together because God forbids you from cutting it? Get serious! You need to wear a long black coat, pants and hat everywhere because God doesn't like colour? Really!?

[dialamah]

16 minutes ago, Argus said:

If you have scorn for that organization, how can you not have scorn for those who dedicate their lives to the beliefs of that organization? Who wrap themselves in bedsheets every day of their lives, for example, because of that organization?

I reserve my scorn for individuals, not groups.

 For example, not all Conservatives are to be scorned, even if I disagree with their basic ideology.  I've even come to appreciate and respect one or two of the more thoughtful ones on this board.  I have even modified some of my ideas as a result of what they've written.

The scorn-worthy are the ones who fail to differentiate between an individual Liberal and all Liberals and make sweeping and negative generalizations about "leftists" as if they were some kind of borg-race who acted and thought identically at all times.  

Same for Islamaphobes:  constantly warning about all the dangers of Muslims and claiming they are out to change Canada or whatever and ignoring the very real differences between various groups and individuals is scornworthy.

[Argus]

Just now, dialamah said:

I reserve my scorn for individuals, not groups.

 For example, not all Conservatives are to be scorned, even if I disagree with their basic ideology.  I've even come to appreciate and respect one or two of the more thoughtful ones on this board.  I have even modified some of my ideas as a result of what they've written.

The scorn-worthy are the ones who fail to differentiate between an individual Liberal and all Liberals and make sweeping and negative generalizations about "leftists" as if they were some kind of borg-race who acted and thought identically at all times.  

Same for Islamaphobes:  constantly warning about all the dangers of Muslims and claiming they are out to change Canada or whatever and ignoring the very real differences between various groups and individuals is scornworthy.

It occurs to me that you completely dodged the question. If I see a man who wears a duck on his head everywhere he goes, and he says it's because God told him to, am I supposed to respect that? If more than 60% of Muslim Canadian women hide their hair because God thinks that will arouse men, am I supposed to respect them?

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

I would hope this goes both ways.  Because I've been screamed at, shouted at, slapped, assaulted (Yes, it went to court), lied to and treated as a sub-human by Muslim immigrants because I am a white woman.  I watched in horror as a group of them attacked an Israeli girl on lline, outlining all the barbaric ways they wanted her and her family to die.  To a person, every one of the Muslims I have met and interacted with have been angry, unhappy, violent - both verbally and physically.

Edit to add:  I really never gave much thought to Muslims until I lived amongst them and had to figure out WTF is wrong with these people?

Definitely it should go both ways.   Muslims who are abusive and violent should be treated exactly the same as White Nationalists who are abusive and violent.

I'm really curious about our different experiences with Muslim men.   Even wandering without male escort alone and with my sister we were never harassed to that degree.  Hit on, yes lots, and groped once .. But certainly no worse than what I've experienced in Canada from non-Muslim men.   

[dialamah]

4 minutes ago, Argus said:

It occurs to me that you completely dodged the question. If I see a man who wears a duck on his head everywhere he goes, and he says it's because God told him to, am I supposed to respect that? If more than 60% of Muslim Canadian women hide their hair because God thinks that will arouse men, am I supposed to respect them?

You are right, you can scorn whomever you want and as many groups as you want.  I didn't mean to suggest otherwise, blame my bad comprehension this time.   

[DogOnPorch]

45 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Definitely it should go both ways.   Muslims who are abusive and violent should be treated exactly the same as White Nationalists who are abusive and violent.

I'm really curious about our different experiences with Muslim men.   Even wandering without male escort alone and with my sister we were never harassed to that degree.  Hit on, yes lots, and groped once .. But certainly no worse than what I've experienced in Canada from non-Muslim men.   

 

Islam isn't a race or a skin colour. Even 6' tall white guys can join the cult of Islam.

[Goddess]

55 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Definitely it should go both ways.   Muslims who are abusive and violent should be treated exactly the same as White Nationalists who are abusive and violent.

I'm really curious about our different experiences with Muslim men.   Even wandering without male escort alone and with my sister we were never harassed to that degree.  Hit on, yes lots, and groped once .. But certainly no worse than what I've experienced in Canada from non-Muslim men.   

I've been curious about it, too.  I wonder if my experiences have mostly been with NEWER immigrants, the town I was in had a high Muslim population and my neighborhood was where a lot of them settled.  Or perhaps they were mostly from countries where there has been NO progress in the areas of human/women's rights.  I dont' know if it's culture or the religion or a combination of both.  But I do know, to a person, they treated Westerners with absolute and utter contempt.  I don't think there was one who would've peed on me if I was on fire.

Others had similar experiences where I lived.  My freind, a female warehouse manager, was introduced to a new employee, a Muslim man, who refused to  look at her, shake her hand or acknowledge her when she spoke.  She worried that if there was ever an accident in the warehouse, this man would not help her in any way.

This is the issue I have with Trudeau - he is not the one who has to live with these attitudes and deal with them every day.  His wife will never screamed at, slapped or assaulted.  He is not the one who has to live with such backwardness and just plain inhumane-ness.  (Is that a word, or did I just invent it?  Ha!)

I don't believe that they will adapt to life in Canada with attitudes such as this, or with do-gooders refusing to challenge them  and just "going along" with them in the name of tolerance.

But this is why I believe your estimates of it only being a TINY minority with these attitudes is waaaay off.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Goddess

[DogOnPorch]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

Absolutely, but to go back to the original comment, it says that scorn would be the appropriate punishment for Islamophobia in Canada.  As long as that is not Government mandated scorn, I'm okay with it.  Scorn is covered by the same freedom of speech principles that cover Islamophobia.  Either could be justified.  Either could be ridiculous.  All are allowed.

 

The problem IS that it is Government mandated scorn...or worse. If this is a reality, anything is possible.

M-103 is a reflection of what Canadians such as some here at MLW want. A special place for Islam... ♪ above all others. Above all others in the World... ♫

[Guest]

Just now, DogOnPorch said:

 

The problem IS that it is Government mandated scorn...or worse. If this is a reality, anything is possible.

M-103 is a reflection of what Canadians such as some here at MLW want. A special place for Islam... ♪ above all others. Above all others in the World... ♫

I would be completely against that, of course. 

[DogOnPorch]

9 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I would be completely against that, of course. 

Seeing there are already laws on the books and HRCs primed to burn witches ALREADY...one has to view this with some contempt as this is exactly the goal.

Islam is Greater.

Not Equal...not Lesser.

Edited March 8, 2017 by DogOnPorch

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Seeing there are already laws on the books and HRCs ready to burn witches ALREADY...one has to view this with some contempt as this is exactly the goal.

Islam is Greater.

Not Equal...not Lesser.

Dead set against them.  HRCs are some of the more ridulous things I've heard of in my life.  I have utter contempt for them.  Worse than scorn.

[DogOnPorch]

2 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Dead set against them.  HRCs are some of the more ridulous things I've heard of in my life.  I have utter contempt for them.  Worse than scorn.

And do not trust except those who follow your religion." Say, "Indeed, the [true] guidance is the guidance of Allah . [Do you fear] lest someone be given [knowledge] like you were given or that they would [thereby] argue with you before your Lord?" Say, "Indeed, [all] bounty is in the hand of Allah - He grants it to whom He wills. And Allah is all-Encompassing and Wise."

https://quran.com/3/73

[Guest]

Just now, DogOnPorch said:

And do not trust except those who follow your religion." Say, "Indeed, the [true] guidance is the guidance of Allah . [Do you fear] lest someone be given [knowledge] like you were given or that they would [thereby] argue with you before your Lord?" Say, "Indeed, [all] bounty is in the hand of Allah - He grants it to whom He wills. And Allah is all-Encompassing and Wise."

https://quran.com/3/73

All-Encompassing and Wise.  Sounds like quite the girl!

[dialamah]

@Goddess.   In my previous post I missed saying that it was in Egypt that my sister and I were without male escort.

The male Muslims I have met and worked with in Canada are all well-educated, as is my sister's husband and family.  Regardless of how long these men have been in Canada, they've treated me with respect.  For the ones with whom I've discussed treatment of women, they have indicated belief in female equality.  The men have been from a variety of Middle Eastern and African countries, but not Syria or Saudi Arabia that I recall.   Perhaps education is an important consideration for determining who will more easily fit into Canadian norms?

[PIK]

8 minutes ago, dialamah said:

@Goddess.   In my previous post I missed saying that it was in Egypt that my sister and I were without male escort.

The male Muslims I have met and worked with in Canada are all well-educated, as is my sister's husband and family.  Regardless of how long these men have been in Canada, they've treated me with respect.  For the ones with whom I've discussed treatment of women, they have indicated belief in female equality.  The men have been from a variety of Middle Eastern and African countries, but not Syria or Saudi Arabia that I recall.   Perhaps education is an important consideration for determining who will more easily fit into Canadian norms?

Just leave the baggage in the country they are coming from and be happy to be in a free country. And do your best to join that country with it's value and morals. 

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, PIK said:

Just leave the baggage in the country they are coming from and be happy to be in a free country. And do your best to join that country with it's value and morals. 

 

That isn't what Islam is about, unfortunately.

 

Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

https://quran.com/9/29

 

In Canadian-speak: Fight the unbeliever until only Islam remains. Survivors can pay a special head-tax to Islam to avoid death.

[BillyBeaver]

Canada Day and our returning soldiers' mental health should be immune to scorn.

There is no reason that our individual soldiers should be held accountable for leadership decisions they didn't make.

Being against confederation and celebration of our nation-state is unpatriotic and divisive.

I don't know many christians that consider themselves Canadian second, after their religion. That's my main issue with Islam, it's a fascist doctrine disguised as a holy text.

 

 

 

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, BillyBeaver said:

Canada Day and our returning soldiers' mental health should be immune to scorn.

There is no reason that our individual soldiers should be held accountable for leadership decisions they didn't make.

Being against confederation and celebration of our nation-state is unpatriotic and divisive.

I don't know many christians that consider themselves Canadian second, after their religion. That's my main issue with Islam, it's a fascist doctrine disguised as a holy text.

 

 

 

What about burning the flag?

[taxme]

Well, the liberals are at it again. Again they are showing that they do not believe in freedom of speech. An Ontario MP liberal named Ikra Khalid, a muslim, wants to have a law created that would have written init that no one be allowed to question or criticize Islam in a negative manner. Now we can see as to just where these muslims are headed and what they have planned for Canada if they can get enough muslims into the country, and then have more laws created to stifle free speech against anyone condemning Islam. If no one can see that Islam is a threat to Canada and freedom well you must be dumb. So, this dumb liberal obviously has not been informed yet or probably doesn't even care that Canada has a piece of paper called The Charter of Rights and Freedoms which states that all people are equal, no exceptions. But she wants to make Muslims an exception and not have to be equal but have more. Pathetic indeed. 

So, where is the media party(Global/CBC/CTV)on this? They appear to be quite silent along with the conservative party on this attack against freedom of speech. I wonder why? I guess that it has nothing to do with Trump so it is not news. This should be front page news and reported on for weeks by the media. This is why I call the Canadian media fake and phony. They are too politically correct, and will not stand up against these muslims for their daring to even try to get a law put in place that would criminalize any Canadian, and have them arrested and charged, and thrown in the gulag for daring to question Islam. 

Here is a golden opportunity for the candidates running for the leadership of the conservative party to speak out against this motion, and possibly become the law of the land in the next month or so. But they too are silent. The conservative party is also a fake and phony politically correct party. They like to talk but will not do the walk. And most likely their excuse for not saying anything is that they do not want to be called racist. What a bunch of cowards. Well, I guess that I must be a racist then because I am against this motion. I have no fear of being called a racist. Go ahead, make my day. Instead of members here concerning themselves about this anti-freedom of speech motion, and discussing this motion, it would appear as though what Trump says or does is more important to them. Canada has real issues to discuss but typically what Canadians prefer to talk about is anything that won't make them appear to be politically incorrect or racist. I have to agree with O'Leary that it is basically a waste of time to go to those candidate meetings, and listen to that same old, same old. Personally, I think that the conservative party is just another liberal party. Prove me wrong if you can? 

Anyway, I think that this muslim motion needs to be questioned and challenged and thrown out as being an anti-Canadian motion, and it needs to be nipped in the bud. What say you?  

[GostHacked]

This is similar to Jordan Peterson's stance on the legislation of pronouns and the possibility of legal action if someone feels they've been slighted by someone not using their pronouns.  This goes against free speech and creates new unequal classes in society.

[?Impact]

30 minutes ago, taxme said:

An Ontario MP liberal named Ikra Khalid, a muslim, wants to have a law created that would have written init that no one be allowed to question or criticize Islam in a negative manner.

Could you provide a source for that allegation? Where is the text of the bill she is presenting, or when did she make such statement either in or outside of the legislature?

 

Edited March 8, 2017 by ?Impact

[dialamah]

Its a motion for a study, not a bill for legislation.   Its also already been discussed to death.