?Impact Posted February 7, 2017 Report Posted February 7, 2017 I though a thread about Presidential alternative facts would be in order, hopefully Greg has some dollars to purchase more storage for this one alone. Today, Trump told a group of about 3000 sheriffs that "the murder rate in our country is the highest it’s been in 47 years". The real fact of the matter is that murder rate is way down, less than half what it was in the 1980 (b.t.w. other violent crime is also way down). It has been declining steadily for years, 2014 was the lowest year and there was a slight uptick in 2015 and the 2016 final numbers are not published as far as I am aware. 1 2 Quote
betsy Posted February 7, 2017 Report Posted February 7, 2017 This supports his claim. Quote U.S. Murders Surged in 2015, F.B.I. Finds The country’s murder rate jumped more last year than it had in nearly half a century, newly released federal crime data showed, although the number of homicides remained far below the levels of the 1980s and ’90s. The data, part of an annual report released on Monday by the F.B.I., showed that the murder rate rose 10.8 percent across the United States in 2015, part of a nearly 4 percent increase in violent crime. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/27/us/murder-crime-fbi.html?_r=0 1 Quote
betsy Posted February 7, 2017 Report Posted February 7, 2017 21 minutes ago, ?Impact said: I though a thread about Presidential alternative facts would be in order, hopefully Greg has some dollars to purchase more storage for this one alone. Today, Trump told a group of about 3000 sheriffs that "the murder rate in our country is the highest it’s been in 47 years". The real fact of the matter is that murder rate is way down, less than half what it was in the 1980 (b.t.w. other violent crime is also way down). It has been declining steadily for years, 2014 was the lowest year and there was a slight uptick in 2015 and the 2016 final numbers are not published as far as I am aware. I don't know how it's declining when these days, most murders are multiple murders! Practically on a daily basis. Massacres - something that's not so common 40 years ago. 1 Quote
kactus Posted February 7, 2017 Report Posted February 7, 2017 Sounds more like distorting facts if you asked me....Here is the thing though judging by the person he is Trump evidently loves drama. Oh no I retract...He is an attention seeker. So if he uses alternative facts to say murder rate is at its highest rate then it is because of his term in presidency that it will go down. But wait...like you said it is already down but his fan face may attribute the false claim to immigration.Don't ya know? 1 Quote
?Impact Posted February 7, 2017 Author Report Posted February 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, betsy said: This supports his claim. No, it does not. It support exactly what I said above, the crime rate ticked up slightly in 2015 from the lowest ever in 2014. His claim was that it was highest in the past 47 years with is an outright lie. The highest year was 1980 where it was over twice the rate it was in 2015, they year you refer to. Quote
betsy Posted February 7, 2017 Report Posted February 7, 2017 1 minute ago, kactus said: Sounds more like distorting facts if you asked me....Here is the thing though judging by the person he is Trump evidently loves drama. Oh no I retract...He is an attention seeker. So if he uses alternative facts to say murder rate is at its highest rate then it is because of his term in presidency that it will go down. But wait...like you said it is already down but his fan face may attribute the false claim to immigration.Don't ya know? Maybe the FBI distorts facts? Even Hillary believed it. Quote U.S. Murders Surged in 2015, F.B.I. Finds The Democratic candidate, Hillary Clinton, has called for an overhaul of the justice system and a rebuilding of trust between law enforcement officers and the communities they serve. She has also called for stricter gun control. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/27/us/murder-crime-fbi.html?_r=0 Quote
kactus Posted February 7, 2017 Report Posted February 7, 2017 1 minute ago, betsy said: Maybe the FBI distorts facts? Even Hillary believed it. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/27/us/murder-crime-fbi.html?_r=0 Sure everybody doesit but it is scary when the most powerful man in charge is doing it. Compulsively.... Quote
betsy Posted February 7, 2017 Report Posted February 7, 2017 1 minute ago, kactus said: Sure everybody doesit but it is scary when the most powerful man in charge is doing it. Compulsively.... I'm skeptical about the numbers. We've got so many massacres now, not to mention gang-related murders. Quote
?Impact Posted February 7, 2017 Author Report Posted February 7, 2017 Just to add to the Trump alternative facts about crime, he recently compared Chicago to the middle east. While I can't find a complete up to date list of US cities with violent crime, Chicago is not in the top 10 from the most recent data. In terms of murder, it sits at #24 on that list. Quote
The_Squid Posted February 7, 2017 Report Posted February 7, 2017 1 hour ago, betsy said: ...although the number of homicides remained far below the levels of the 1980s and ’90s. Betsy... read your own cite.... ...then read what The Donald said... Quote "the murder rate in our country is the highest it’s been in 47 years". Quote
Hal 9000 Posted February 7, 2017 Report Posted February 7, 2017 "The murder rate in a number of cities, however, has been ticking up, something President Trump routinely discussed on the campaign trail. That increase in the homicide rate between 2014 and 2015, rather than the rate itself, is the largest in almost 50 years." Maybe he simply meant "the increase in homicide", either way the point is the point. We could argue about whether Carter's time in office or Clinton's presidency was the most violent - or even Obama's last couple of years, but Trump's point is still valid. 1 Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 7, 2017 Report Posted February 7, 2017 1 hour ago, betsy said: I'm skeptical about the numbers. We've got so many massacres now, not to mention gang-related murders. ...and we even had a Canadian diplomat's son involved in a drug deal homicide in Florida. A real fact. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Argus Posted February 8, 2017 Report Posted February 8, 2017 2 hours ago, ?Impact said: I though a thread about Presidential alternative facts would be in order, hopefully Greg has some dollars to purchase more storage for this one alone. But now there won't be anything to talk about in the Donald Trump thread... Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
The_Squid Posted February 8, 2017 Report Posted February 8, 2017 29 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said: Maybe he simply meant "the increase in homicide", either way the point is the point. LOL Is he so inarticulate that he needs more interpretation about what he says than a bible passage? He said what he said... and it was a lie... I know he's your hero, but it's pretty obvious to everyone with two brain cells to rub together... Quote
Hal 9000 Posted February 8, 2017 Report Posted February 8, 2017 12 minutes ago, The_Squid said: LOL Is he so inarticulate that he needs more interpretation about what he says than a bible passage? He said what he said... and it was a lie... I know he's your hero, but it's pretty obvious to everyone with two brain cells to rub together... Look, I know you want to park everything to show a lie, but the reality is that he simply misspoke - not a lie, just misspoke. Every politician, in fact every person has done it. It's quite clear that the writers of the article also know exactly what he was meaning. Grow the F up and pick your battles, unless you want to be a fool for following the media manipulation. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
?Impact Posted February 8, 2017 Author Report Posted February 8, 2017 Trump tweet (alternative fact) at 8pm this evening: It is a disgrace that my full Cabinet is still not in place, the longest such delay in the history of our country. Obstruction by Democrats! Real fact are that Trump has been in office 19 days. For Obama we had the following confirmations: Hilda Solis, Labor Secretary - February 24 Gary Locke, Secretary of Commerce - March 24 Kathleen Sibelius, Health and Human Services secretary - April 28 For Clinton, Janet Reno wasn't confirmed until March 11 For George H.W. Bush there were 4 nominees that were not confirmed until March Quote
Wilber Posted February 8, 2017 Report Posted February 8, 2017 15 hours ago, Hal 9000 said: "The murder rate in a number of cities, however, has been ticking up, something President Trump routinely discussed on the campaign trail. That increase in the homicide rate between 2014 and 2015, rather than the rate itself, is the largest in almost 50 years." Maybe he simply meant "the increase in homicide", either way the point is the point. We could argue about whether Carter's time in office or Clinton's presidency was the most violent - or even Obama's last couple of years, but Trump's point is still valid. Quote Donald Trump "the murder rate in our country is the highest it’s been in 47 years". Why do Trumpites have so much trouble comprehending simple English? Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
BubberMiley Posted February 8, 2017 Report Posted February 8, 2017 18 minutes ago, Wilber said: Why do Trumpites have so much trouble comprehending simple English? They don't. They just have alternative definitions of some words. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
Topaz Posted February 8, 2017 Report Posted February 8, 2017 There is a difference under Trump....the country is a mess and the country NEEDS all these appointments done quickly to move on and make America great again but there are some who don't want Trump to succeed, George Soros being one. Quote
BubberMiley Posted February 8, 2017 Report Posted February 8, 2017 5 minutes ago, Topaz said: There is a difference under Trump....the country is a mess and the country NEEDS all these appointments done quickly to move on and make America great again but there are some who don't want Trump to succeed, George Soros being one. Yes, the country was in excellent shape when Obama inherited it in 2008. That's an excellent example of an alternative fact. Thank you. 1 Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
?Impact Posted February 8, 2017 Author Report Posted February 8, 2017 5 minutes ago, Topaz said: There is a difference under Trump....the country is a mess Yes things today are different then they were in 2009. We don't have the bottom falling out of the economy, the entire world in recession, unemployment at twice its current rate, etc. Yes the country is in a mess, and in 2009 it was all sunshine and lollipops. Quote
Wilber Posted February 8, 2017 Report Posted February 8, 2017 Short attention span? Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Hal 9000 Posted February 8, 2017 Report Posted February 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Wilber said: Why do Trumpites have so much trouble comprehending simple English? It's not about compression, it's about forgiving the fact that he misspoke and understanding what was actually meant by the comment. The article knew what he meant and simply chose the other narrative - and you people have bought into it. If it was Obama, the media would be falling over backwards defending the comment. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
BubberMiley Posted February 8, 2017 Report Posted February 8, 2017 16 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said: It's not about compression, it's about forgiving the fact that he misspoke and understanding what was actually meant by the comment. The article knew what he meant and simply chose the other narrative - and you people have bought into it. If it was Obama, the media would be falling over backwards defending the comment. What do you call it when somebody repeatedly misspeaks, even after being corrected many times? He misspoke the same misinformation during the election and was consistently corrected. Yet he continues to misspeak and rely on other people to relate their "alternative understanding" of what he really, really meant. 2 Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
Wilber Posted February 8, 2017 Report Posted February 8, 2017 17 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said: It's not about compression, it's about forgiving the fact that he misspoke and understanding what was actually meant by the comment. The article knew what he meant and simply chose the other narrative - and you people have bought into it. If it was Obama, the media would be falling over backwards defending the comment. Why do you keep making stuff up that people never said and ignoring what they actually did say? You are saying he took one statistic and used it to claim the country's murder rate is at a 47 year high. A completed falsehood. There are only two explanations here. 1: He deliberately told a bald faced lie. 2: He really doesn't know WTF he is talking about. Take your pick. 1 Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
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