Guest Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 7 minutes ago, Peter F said: As far as wether 'guys feel driven to violence' by shooting a bunch of folks minding their own business: Fuck guys who feel driven to violence. Fuck them completely. Or is that some Canadian value i'm treading upon? I don't think it's a Canadian value. I think it's a human value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 2 hours ago, ?Impact said: Whiter than white right wing terrorist kills 6, and this thread devolves into discussing Islam. Get a grip folks. It's called the natural flow of conversation. We didn't lead it in that direction, the person accusing others of having caused it because we don't approve of Islam and dare to say so did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 21 minutes ago, Peter F said: Anti islamic rhetoric has certainly followed the rise of muslim violence from Muslim migrants - turning a blind eye to the rise of nationalist violence due to muslim migrants - certainly true in Europe, but how does that extrapolate to Canada? It extrapolates fairly obviously in that the Muslims coming to Canada and the Muslims going to Europe come from the same place, with the same interpretation on Islamic laws and requirements. I would have thought that patently obvious. 21 minutes ago, Peter F said: Is there a rise in muslim violence in Canada from all those tens of thousands of islamic immigrants? If there isn't any noticeable rise is muslim violence in Canada then your point only applies to Europe , not Canada . There wasn't a rise in violence at first there either. The violence and demands seem to have risen in tandem with the numbers coming in. The greater percentage, the more the Muslim communities in these countries seem to have taken a sense of strength through numbers. I will admit, however, that we have done a better job with integrating immigrants than the Europeans have. But as the percentages rise I fear problems similar to those in Europe will arise. 21 minutes ago, Peter F said: Those may or may not be the punishments in Muslim lands BUT those are not the rules that apply in Canada The rules which apply in Canada are formed out of the values of its population. If a higher and higher percentage of the population originates in countries which don't like those rules, then, as they vote, and as they gain political influence, the rules can change. 21 minutes ago, Peter F said: Your contention seems to be that if we allow non-criminal muslims to immigrate here then those muslims will start killing gays or advocate for the killing of gays. It's more along the lines of as more and more Muslims come here and the the percentage of the population which subscribes to Muslim beliefs (which include rigid social values) their numbers will give them a rising political and social influence. There is no question, btw, that this is going to happen. So the question is in what way will they begin to shift our culture, our values and our politics. Right now, I'm not very enthusiastic about the likely direction, based, as I said, on those rigid and retrograde social values 21 minutes ago, Peter F said: Yet, with tens of thousands of Muslim immigrants already here this has not happened. Naturally not. They're still a relatively small percentage of the population compared to somewhere like France or the UK or Sweden. 21 minutes ago, Peter F said: Again you are ignoring what Canadian muslims haven't done and continue to claim that they will. What they might. I can't say for a certainty about the future. I do know that from what the numbers I've seen say immigrants from the Middle east are the least economically successful from all our source areas. Why, then, are we bringing in so many? If we could bring in immigrants from source areas which produce statistically higher economic success we ought to do that. Throw in the cultural risk and to me it makes no sense to be bringing in so many Muslims. 21 minutes ago, Peter F said: If half the group are fine according to your broad brush, then why should the individuals of that group be denied? Well that has been the proposal from Leitch, hasn't it? That we should determine which half potential immigrants fall into and bring in the better half. Right now we don't do that. 21 minutes ago, Peter F said: True lots of Muslim nations are intolerant, or nonsecular and intolerant or don't recognize equality of the sexes or even of religion or even all of the proceeding put together! Are there ANY which aren't? 21 minutes ago, Peter F said: Who gives a shit? Because bringing in people from those places who hold those social values will influence our own as their numbers grow. 21 minutes ago, Peter F said: h my goodness. There's a bunch of elites and people like me that recoil in horror at the thought of your stupid broad-brush Canadian values ideas! Why, how very undemocratic. Yes, it is. That was the point. There can't be an open exchange or discussion about immigration because of the brainless political correctness of the elites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 4 hours ago, eyeball said: Argus doesn't know what he's talking about. Muslim violence followed the descent of the Anglo-American Empire into savage interference in the Muslim world. The anti-Islamic rhetoric is simply a part and parcel of western denial of any complicity and wrong doing on our part. You are full of it. Islamic violence predated the Angl American Empire and to suggest it did not is laughable. That said its not germane to this thread but then why let that stop you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 3 hours ago, ?Impact said: Whiter than white right wing terrorist kills 6, and this thread devolves into discussing Islam. Get a grip folks. And your surprised it's not like most terrorist actions in the world are carried out by muslims....everyone was playing the odds, in fact they threw in a moroccan just to further lead us down the trail..... This guy should be charged with being a terrorist, and we'll see him in 150 years or so....as we should do with all terrorists....white, brown, pink or purple....Once again perhaps we could take some time and see if those laws in place are enough.....funny how we let the khadrs slip out of our fingers, and yet everyone is yelling for this guys balls on a plate....maybe it is just me.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Something that is good is the way all Canadians got wrapped up about this terrorist thing.....basically every one is on the same page.....Now if we can get the same result from the all muslims in Canada when it comes to terrorist activities....we would all be laughing..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 1 minute ago, Army Guy said: funny how we let the khadrs... Funny how right wing partisans see the world as black/white and not for the scales of grey that are the actual reality. Quote As hard as it may be to hear, conservative thought may be based on more simplistic modes of thinking (or, conversely, conservative thought may lead to more simplistic modes of thinking). An emphasis on in-group/loyalty, authority/respect, and purity/sanctity could stem from “low-effort” or “less abstract” or “fear-based” thought, which could create an ideology resistant to social changes like racial integration, access to contraceptives, the sexual revolution, immigration, gay marriage, and so on, and fear of losing the rights they value and believe moral, hence the aversion to gun control, government regulation of business, restrictions on religious rights, and so on. http://www.weekendcollective.com/liberals-conservatives-think-differently-someone-whos/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITIZEN_2015 Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Argus said: The rules which apply in Canada are formed out of the values of its population. If a higher and higher percentage of the population originates in countries which don't like those rules, then, as they vote, and as they gain political influence, the rules can change. Because bringing in people from those places who hold those social values will influence our own as their numbers grow. True statements. So be selective as who comes in and future immigrants must be compatible with Canadian values. A good majority from certain region are not but still there are some who are. Immigration policies must improve to select those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITIZEN_2015 Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, eyeball said: The anti-Islamic rhetoric is simply a part and parcel of western denial of any complicity and wrong doing on our part. ?? Edited February 1, 2017 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 5 minutes ago, The_Squid said: Funny how right wing partisans see the world as black/white and not for the scales of grey that are the actual reality. http://www.weekendcollective.com/liberals-conservatives-think-differently-someone-whos/ Yes , yes i can see that the Khadrs were the average Canadian family, one shot and arrested fighting US forces, another shot while his father was killed fighting another government , now in Canada to suck our medical system dry as he is in a wheel chair...., another brother was put on the CIA pay roll for info.....that he had while being terrorist....his other brother the oldest still a terrorist....lets start on the sisters shall we....who hate this country and spit on everything it stands for........i won't go into moms roll in the whole thing......Liberals all over the world would be glad to know these scumbags are alive and well in Canada being looked after by our welfare system and medical system.........while comrades i know served in our military, are killing themselves because they can't get treatment for PTSD....whooraah.....yup...black and white...thanks for having our backs..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 3 hours ago, bcsapper said: Okay, I guess all violence is understandable by somebody. I was getting it mixed up with justified. My mistake. It's definitely a mistake and it's also quite obviously deliberate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: Yes , yes i can see that the Khadrs were the average Canadian family, one shot and arrested fighting US forces, another shot while his father was killed fighting another government , now in Canada to suck our medical system dry as he is in a wheel chair...., another brother was put on the CIA pay roll for info.....that he had while being terrorist....his other brother the oldest still a terrorist....lets start on the sisters shall we....who hate this country and spit on everything it stands for........i won't go into moms roll in the whole thing......Liberals all over the world would be glad to know these scumbags are alive and well in Canada being looked after by our welfare system and medical system.........while comrades i know served in our military, are killing themselves because they can't get treatment for PTSD....whooraah.....yup...black and white...thanks for having our backs..... These are exactly the people a values test ought to be weeding out of the immigration stream. Because once they get here we can't ever get rid of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 5 minutes ago, eyeball said: It's definitely a mistake and it's also quite obviously deliberate. Shoot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 2 hours ago, Rue said: That said its not germane to this thread but then why let that stop you. Until it stops, the denial of western complicity is really the most germane point at the core of most of the bandwidth this forum has used. I see no end in sight to that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: Yes , yes i can see that the Khadrs were the average Canadian family, one shot and arrested fighting US forces What does that have to do with Muslims being murdered by a gunman in a Canadian city? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 11 minutes ago, Smallc said: What does that have to do with Muslims being murdered by a gunman in a Canadian city? Quote and your surprised it's not like most terrorist actions in the world are carried out by muslims....everyone was playing the odds, in fact they threw in a moroccan just to further lead us down the trail..... This guy should be charged with being a terrorist, and we'll see him in 150 years or so....as we should do with all terrorists....white, brown, pink or purple....Once again perhaps we could take some time and see if those laws in place are enough.....funny how we let the khadrs slip out of our fingers, and yet everyone is yelling for this guys balls on a plate....maybe it is just me.... It was in regards to the comment i made a while ago, above....someone wondered why everyone assumed it was a muslim and act of terror....in 2011 the laws changed....to address the shortfalls in the khadr case....the story has change form paying the khadrs off to cutting this french mans balls off.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 15 minutes ago, Smallc said: What does that have to do with Muslims being murdered by a gunman in a Canadian city? It has to do with people claiming that anyone who dares to criticize the political ideology of Islam is creating hatred and thus is responsible for the deaths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 24 minutes ago, eyeball said: Until it stops, the denial of western complicity is really the most germane point at the core of most of the bandwidth this forum has used. I see no end in sight to that. Complicity in what? Are you saying Islamic terror (not regular beheadings/stonings etc) is justified, or only understandable because of the actions of the west? Would you say Islamophobia, even unto the Quebec murders, was justified or only understandable because of the actions of Muslims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 1 minute ago, Argus said: It has to do with people claiming that anyone who dares to criticize the political ideology of Islam is creating hatred and thus is responsible for the deaths. People who question an ideology are fine. People who spread hatred and fear are causing things like this though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 12 minutes ago, Smallc said: People who question an ideology are fine. People who spread hatred and fear are causing things like this though. Do tell me the difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 There's nothing wrong with criticizing the Islamic faith. There is a real problem with criticizing the Muslim people en masse, or broad brushing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 8 minutes ago, Smallc said: There's nothing wrong with criticizing the Islamic faith. There is a real problem with criticizing the Muslim people en masse, or broad brushing them. Problem with that is they are one and the same..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 Just now, Army Guy said: Problem with that is they are one and the same..... No, they aren't; and that kind of talk is part of the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 26 minutes ago, bcsapper said: Complicity in what? /facepalm Are you saying I'm saying /facepalm. Why did you always need to have things repeated to you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 12 minutes ago, Smallc said: There's nothing wrong with criticizing the Islamic faith. There is a real problem with criticizing the Muslim people en masse, or broad brushing them. Is it broad brushing them when you cite polls showing huge majorities of them feel a certain way? Is it broad brushing them when you observe that nowhere in the Muslim world are gays or Jews safe, or are women considered equal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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