betsy Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) 39 minutes ago, dialamah said: He bragged about grabbing women by the pussy. Sexual assault then, if you want to split hairs. So he's bragged about sexually assaulting women. In what context exactly is bragging about sexual assault ok? Here's part of the transcript. The complete unedited transcript, including the video, is provide. Quote Trump: Yeah, that’s her. With the gold. I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know, I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Bush: Whatever you want. Trump: Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/08/us/donald-trump-tape-transcript.html?_r=0 The conversation took a turn when he said...."You know, I'm automatically attracted to beautiful..." At that point, he's obviously not talking about anyone in particular anymore! He's using "them," and "they," plural form. He could be referring to groupies and those who'd do anything to get their film break! That's a fact of life in Hollywood, or in any film industry all over the world! Why do you think there's such a term as the "CASTING COUCH?" Quote Casting couch The casting couch, casting-couch syndrome, or casting-couch mentality is the trading of sexual favors by an aspirant, apprentice employee, or subordinate to a superior in return for entry into an occupation, or for other career advancement within an organization. The term casting couch originated in the motion picture industry, with specific reference to couches in offices that could be used for sexual activity between casting directors or film producers and aspiring actors.[ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casting_couch "And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything." Obviously he's talking about celebrity-struck women - that's a fact! There are women who flock to celebrities, and they're game for anything! That's a fact! "Grab them by the pussy," was a response to Billy Bush "whatever you want." It is to emphasize that celebrities can do WHATEVER! Edited December 31, 2016 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 Actually, if it wasn't for the election....Trump should never have apologised for what he said! They were having a private conversation. It's the people who leaked that video who should apologise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 2 hours ago, betsy said: Actually, if it wasn't for the election....Trump should never have apologised for what he said! They were having a private conversation. It's the people who leaked that video who should apologise! Your attempt to protect this moron against what was obviously sexual assault even challenges some of the ridiculous statements you have made before. And I have to ask the question, even though I shouldn't, how would you respond if you met him and he grabbed you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 On 29/12/2016 at 3:30 PM, betsy said: There's a lot of intrigues going on and hatchets are drawn, behind the scene. There's real anger behind those words, I think. We don't really know....but we can put two-and-two together by the skirmish going on between Obama and Trump in the news right now - especially what's happening in the UN (with Israel), and the backlash of Obama against Russia. Like what Rump had tweeted: the transition isn't going smoothly after all. Oh I'm pretty sure this will continue to spin very smoothly out of control. Dragging the US to Hell in a handbag will be the easiest thing Trump has ever done. It'll be like warning up for the End of Days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, betsy said: Second, the conversation was taken out of context! Well sure, but Trump's supporters didn't take it out until after he was found out. Edited December 31, 2016 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) 9 hours ago, Omni said: Your attempt to protect this moron against what was obviously sexual assault even challenges some of the ridiculous statements you have made before. And I have to ask the question, even though I shouldn't, how would you respond if you met him and he grabbed you? Only those who can't understand English, will misunderstand what's being said. That statement of Trump was deliberately taken out of context - the same way his statement that women who have abortion will go to jail, was taken out of context by the lying media! Trump, is not the moron. Edited December 31, 2016 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 13 hours ago, Omni said: And I have to ask the question, even though I shouldn't, how would you respond if you met him and he grabbed you? I'm betting that Betsy would grab him. The question is what would Trump do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 16 hours ago, dialamah said: He bragged about grabbing women by the pussy. Sexual assault then, if you want to split hairs. So he's bragged about sexually assaulting women. In what context exactly is bragging about sexual assault ok? Not to split hairs, but he said, according to the quote on this page, "They let you do it". That's consent. So no rape, or sexual assault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 9 minutes ago, bcsapper said: Not to split hairs, but he said, according to the quote on this page, "They let you do it". That's consent. So no rape, or sexual assault. I've been grabbed with no warning; I didn't feel like I "let" them do it. Freezing in shock is not consent. Don't be a moron, BC. Think of how you'd feel if one of your daughters came home and said "Johnny grabbed my boobs!" and when you asked what she did, she said "I was so shocked I didn't know what to do, and then he laughed and said it was just a joke." Would you feel she'd consented because in that moment she froze and didn't know how to react? Jeez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, dialamah said: I've been grabbed with no warning; I didn't feel like I "let" them do it. Freezing in shock is not consent. Don't be a moron, BC. Think of how you'd feel if one of your daughters came home and said "Johnny grabbed my boobs!" and when you asked what she did, she said "I was so shocked I didn't know what to do, and then he laughed and said it was just a joke." Would you feel she'd consented because in that moment she froze and didn't know how to react? Jeez. Absolutely. I 100% agree. You wouldn't be letting anyone do anything. That would be sexual assault right there. Edit> As to the whole, "Don't be a moron" thing. You do know exactly what he meant in that quote, don't you? Edited December 31, 2016 by bcsapper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 7 minutes ago, bcsapper said: Absolutely. I 100% agree. You wouldn't be letting anyone do anything. That would be sexual assault right there. Edit> As to the whole, "Don't be a moron" thing. You do know exactly what he meant in that quote, don't you? He meant he could grab women, kiss them, grope them without their explicit consent; that his power/money gives him rights to sexually exploit women. It goes along with his comments about walking through a changing room with teenagers changing, he'd date his daughter "if she wasn't his daughter", that he's known to have partied with a pedophile. One comment does not define a person, but there's a pattern here. Sadly, people like him are common; they're found in small town football teams, in corporate America and in the Oval office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, dialamah said: He meant he could grab women, kiss them, grope them without their explicit consent; that his power/money gives him rights to sexually exploit women. It goes along with his comments about walking through a changing room with teenagers changing, he'd date his daughter "if she wasn't his daughter", that he's known to have partied with a pedophile. One comment does not define a person, but there's a pattern here. Sadly, people like him are common; they're found in small town football teams, in corporate America and in the Oval office. I don't know about daughters, changing rooms, pedophiles or patterns. I do know what consent is. And, "They let you do it" means they consent. It's a big deal to accuse someone of rape. In fact, there are multiple instances, if I remember correctly, of women who didn't "let him do it" coming forward. That should illustrate the difference right there. Edited December 31, 2016 by bcsapper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 3 minutes ago, bcsapper said: I don't know about daughters, changing rooms, pedophiles or patterns. I do know what consent is. And, "They let you do it" means they consent. It's a big deal to accuse someone of rape. In fact, there are multiple instances, if I remember correctly, of women who didn't "let him do it" coming forward. That should illustrate the difference right there. I disagree that 'letting' someone do something is equal to consent in all contexts; this is why someone can be successfully convicted of rape if there the accused person holds a position of power over their victim, even if the victim appears to have gone along with it willingly. However, we are far off topic, so if you want to continue privately, message me. Or, alternatively, start a new thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) 41 minutes ago, dialamah said: I've been grabbed with no warning; I didn't feel like I "let" them do it. Freezing in shock is not consent. Don't be a moron, BC. Think of how you'd feel if one of your daughters came home and said "Johnny grabbed my boobs!" and when you asked what she did, she said "I was so shocked I didn't know what to do, and then he laughed and said it was just a joke." Would you feel she'd consented because in that moment she froze and didn't know how to react? Jeez. He's talking about certain women. It's a fact that there are women who flock to celebrities. It's not only in Hollywood. Although not all of women who flock to celebrities welcome the sexual advances, but it's still a fact that there are those who do. Trump was obviously either talking from experiences he's personally had, or was saying what he'd observed happening around celebrities.....and he's talking about these women who welcome getting grabbed. His statement was taken out of context. That's the issue. Edited December 31, 2016 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 4 minutes ago, betsy said: He's talking about certain women. It's a fact that there are women who flock to celebrities. It's not only in Hollywood. Although not all of women who flock to celebrities welcome the sexual advances, but it's still a fact that there are those who do. Trump was obviously either talking from experiences he's personally had, or was saying what he'd observed happening around celebrities.....and he's talking about these women who welcome getting grabbed. That there are some women who welcome such behavior does not make it ok that he either does it or brags about it. If he were a Muslim behaving in such a manner, even a rich Muslim with a reality TV show, would you dismiss it so lightly? Or would you recognize it for what it is: basic disrespect for women? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) 7 minutes ago, dialamah said: That there are some women who welcome such behavior does not make it ok that he either does it or brags about it. If he were a Muslim behaving in such a manner, even a rich Muslim with a reality TV show, would you dismiss it so lightly? Or would you recognize it for what it is: basic disrespect for women? Nobody's saying it's okay. He's not saying it's okay! He's stating a fact of life in his hollywood circle....except that he's used crude language! What's definitely not okay is to eavesdrop on someone's private conversation - and then getting all indignant because we didn't like what we heard! That's what the people who leaked this video had done: made us party to eavesdropping, without any consideration at all for the parties involved (including families, and particularly the married woman that they were talking about at the start). It was a 10 year old video to boot that they'd dug up - not that it would make any difference! Because the principle still remains the same. It was still taken out of context. But just saying.... What was considered acceptable in those days are not considered sex assault, unlike now! Gee, you can't even put your arm around someone nowadays...... you could be slapped with assault charges if you didn't ask permission! That's the problem. It's like a witch-hunt of those who "abused" women. We're trying people for the standard we have today when it comes to feminism, which was totally different from then! Edited December 31, 2016 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 1 minute ago, betsy said: Nobody's saying it's okay. Good, I'm glad we agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) 14 minutes ago, dialamah said: That there are some women who welcome such behavior does not make it ok that he either does it or brags about it. If he were a Muslim behaving in such a manner, even a rich Muslim with a reality TV show, would you dismiss it so lightly? Or would you recognize it for what it is: basic disrespect for women? You were not supposed to have known about him talking about it! You were not supposed to know of that conversation! It was a private conversation! That's the point! Your indignation comes from the fact that some low-life media decided to use that tape to influence the election! Your indignation is mis-directed! Anyway.....what are you suggesting? We cannot freely express ourselves anymore - even in private? We can't say what or how we think of someone in a private conversation? Even if he describes every sexual detail of whatever he wants to do with women - as far as I know, he's still got that right in the USA! He was talking in private! Edited December 31, 2016 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted December 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 4 minutes ago, betsy said: We cannot freely express ourselves anymore - even in private? We can't say what or how we think of someone? Maybe we shouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 Just now, Michael Hardner said: Maybe we shouldn't. If that's how you feel, then you shouldn't. But don't impose it on me.....or anyone else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 1 minute ago, betsy said: You were not supposed to have known about him talking about it! It was a private conversation! That's the point! What are you suggesting? We cannot freely express ourselves anymore - even in private? I am saying that there is no excuse for a man to behave like that or brag about it, whether public or not. Excusing such talk as 'locker room talk' or that it doesn't count because it was 'private' simply lets other men understand that we don't really mind if they behave like aggressive pigs. That disrespect to women isn't really a big deal; just don't let "mom" (aka the public) find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted December 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 1 minute ago, betsy said: If that's how you feel, then you shouldn't. But don't impose it on me.....or anyone else! No I wrote that because that's how YOU feel. ie. Charlie Sheen should shut up... Now that we've gone full circle... do you have much more to say on this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 1 minute ago, betsy said: If that's how you feel, then you shouldn't. But don't impose it on me.....or anyone else! Perhaps you need to go to bat for the people who privately talk about their attraction to young children, how and where to satisfy their urges, but then - to their surprise - find they weren't so private after all, and now must face consequences for their behavior. Yeah, says Betsy, what is said in private should be kept private, in case some rich asshole says something stupid/illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: No I wrote that because that's how YOU feel. ie. Charlie Sheen should shut up... Now that we've gone full circle... do you have much more to say on this ? Yes, I've got something important to say about this! No, I didn't say Charlie Sheen should shut up. What I'm saying about Charlie Sheen is that he's the one who looked like an idiot for praying Trump to die - when actually, due to Sheen's lifestyle (and his issues) - he's most likely to die ahead of Trump! That's the irony that's lost on him (thus he's an idiot)! I wonder how many women who's gotten HIV from him, are all praying for Sheen to die? You do know that having sex with someone without telling them you've got HIV, is more than just an assault? And he's bragging about it too! Quote Charlie Sheen: I had sex without a condom after HIV diagnosis http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/charlie-sheen-sex-without-condom-8233142 This man knowingly victimized women! And here you are, making a hero out of him! Oh....irony. Oh, liberals. Edited December 31, 2016 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted December 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 Yeah, you did. On 12/29/2016 at 1:54 PM, betsy said: No, I'm not saying he must shut up. But, he should! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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