Punish the Deed-Not the Breed?

[drummindiver]

3 hours ago, Boges said:

 

Also few of the breeds on that list are common, except for the Bulldog. 

German shepherds,  Rottweillet's,   Dobermans Pinschers....not common?  Coross,  Akitas,  Mastiffs, Boxers???? 

Where vould you possibly be lving that you would consider these dogs uncommon?

 

Edited December 14, 2016 by drummindiver

[Boges]

10 minutes ago, drummindiver said:

German shepherds,  Rottweillet's,   Dobermans Pinschers....not common?  Coross,  Akitas,  Mastiffs, Boxers???? 

Where vould you possibly be lving that you would consider these dogs uncommon?

Those are dogs that I find troubling as to why people would want to bring those type of dogs in as a family pet. 

Well maybe not Boxers, but Boxers do suffer from a fetish breeders have of dogs that have no face and that can't breathe. 

[drummindiver]

The ban on pitbulls came in 2005.

Bites keep rising. Proof positive BSL doesn't work.

http://m.torontosun.com/2016/12/14/council-puts-bite-on-dangerous-dogs

Edited December 15, 2016 by drummindiver

[drummindiver]

The ban on pitbulls came in 2005.

Bites keep rising. Proof positive BSL doesn't work.

http://m.torontosun.com/2016/12/14/council-puts-bite-on-dangerous-dogs

Edited December 15, 2016 by drummindiver

[Rue]

On 12/11/2016 at 10:00 PM, Michael Hardner said:

Sounds like your main issue is the warrant.   It doesn't sound bad to me that a police officer should made a judgment for public safety and enter a property if there is reason to.

As for the law in general, I am fine with banning a breed of aggressive dog.  I have PTSD from a dog attack and pretty much hate them.  If you happen to like that breed, sorry but move elsewhere and enjoy your terror dogs somewhere where I don't live.

Not to change the subject but I am sorry you have PTSD from a dog attack. Its common and I hope one day you challenge your fear and you start with a therapy dog. Until you go back and relive that trauma and deal with it , it is real and you will live it over and over. Its real not imagined fear. Its because you have not h ad a chance to resolve the attack. You know dogs get ptsd, the same thing as you from being attacked by other dogs as well.

Now to deal with this thread. I have rescued 3 dogs. I train therapy dogs or what we call comfort dogs for use in the legal system when working with trauma victims. I know a lot of good dog people. They have shown me a lot of things. Dogs like people come in all kinds of sizes, shapes and personalities and yes they reflect the personality of their owners. Violence in dogs comes about 2 ways, One its genetic from poor breeding. The skull doesn't grow and the brain does, pushing on the skull causing seizures and violent attacks, Inbreeding can just like humans cause dogs to inherit violent tendencies.

Some breeds are inherently violent. Take the Akita. Its a Japanese dog bred to take down bears. One Akita could and can take down a bear on its own. That's how tough they are. You have to know how to handle them. They are one man dogs and most people have no idea how strong they are. That said it doesn't make them all bad

The so called pit bull is not a breed. What happened is someone took a cain corso, a rottweiler, an American pit bull dog, a Sttafordshire terrier, and maybe other breeds and mixed them. No one knows who mixed them and with what. If they haven't been bred properly their skulls don't grow but their brains do and push against the skull causing violent behaviour. When Doberman's were popular they were overbread and their heads were too small causing this. Likewise St. Bernards, Rottwielers, German Shepherds Pyrenees. It can happen to any breed of dog, The actual American Pit Bull is gentle and was used as a baby sitting dog. No one breed has a monopoly on violence. Pound per pound the Chihuahua is the toughest and most dangerous dog and most likely to bite. Size has nothing to do with it. Jack Russell Terriers don't back down from anything and neither do Corgis.

Yah certain dogs get reputations like Cain Corsos, pit bulls, Rotweillers but its the owner not the breed. Huskies can be very aggressive especially certain alpha females. You have to work with the dog from when its a puppy. You have to know your dog and it has to feel calm from you. Dogs like cats and horses reflect back your mood. You come at them angry and tense, they will react the same way. It aint rocket science.The bad dogs you see are usually a reflection of the owner.

Any dog if it has to go wild to survive turns back into a wolf. Any dog that has wolf in it like many huskies can't 100% be tamed. People who take wolf pups in can never ever tame them.

Banning a breed was stupid. Its not the specific breed, its the blood lines of the dog and/or the owner's treatment and handling of the dog

Now police are often put in situations unfair to them with dogs. They have to decide in a split second whether they or others are in danger. Technically they already have the right to enter with no warrant if they have reasonable grounds to believe someone's life is in danger. Police hate having to shoot dogs. They do so to protect children and stupid owners and sometimes because the dog is ill or gone rogue,

I love dogs but some have to be put down. You would hope they are only put down as a last resort though. I prefer dogs to people. Never met one that was not on the up and up with me. Now coyotes or hybrid coywolves, or ferral dogs or dogs mixed with wolves or coyotes, its very hard to read them. They don't like humans but they would just as assume avoid humans if they could.

 

Edited December 17, 2016 by Rue

[Michael Hardner]

@Rue Nope - I am fine with most dogs and most breeds.  But not German Shepherds.  They are unreasonable.

[Rue]

On 12/14/2016 at 4:42 PM, Boges said:

Those are dogs that I find troubling as to why people would want to bring those type of dogs in as a family pet. 

Well maybe not Boxers, but Boxers do suffer from a fetish breeders have of dogs that have no face and that can't breathe. 

More likely its with Pugs and bull dogs. Yes some boxers have that problem, its too much inbreeding.

[Rue]

7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

@Rue Nope - I am fine with most dogs and most breeds.  But not German Shepherds.  They are unreasonable.

Glad to hear its not all do gs, If I slowly with great care to your reaction using certain techniques  introduced you to some I know used as seeing eye dogs, epilepsy seizure warning dogs, hearing dogs, autism dogs, therapy dogs, search and rescue dogs, I bet you wouldn't feel that way. But I believe your fear is based on a real trauma and I hope one day you lick it. I have a very real apphrension with Akitas myself, its a kind of respect. I think you have to be a special person to own one myself. Shepherds are associated with violence because of owners attracted to them because they were and are used as police and military. its a bumb rap. However they are a popular breed and there is a lot of inbeeding  making some prone to violence or other issues, yes. Again Shephers are highly intelligent working dogs. If you don't handle them right they can get too alpha male. You talk to shepherd owners though who know the breed and they can show you how gentle they can be.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Rue

[drummindiver]

On 2016-12-17 at 3:57 PM, Michael Hardner said:

@Rue Nope - I am fine with most dogs and most breeds.  But not German Shepherds.  They are unreasonable.

Lol...I try not to discriminate, but they are the only breed I'm nervous of when first meeting.

I am also sorry about your PTSD. I was attacked by of all dogs a Corgi My lip was ripped in half from my nose down. Good scar. 

I posted the link about brain testing. 

 

 

[Boges]

http://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/11-year-dog-bite-fatality-chart-dogsbiteorg.pdf

[eyeball]

I'm reminded off what normally happens in the face of similarly quantified data when it pertains to deaths by gun types in the US.

[dialamah]

Sometimes, politicians manage to figure out the best solution to a problem.   City of Surrey is passing new bylaws for aggressive dogs but has chosen not to include a breed ban.  The bylaw wants to focus on dogs that are 'at risk' before they actually bite and to assume that all dogs have the capability of acting aggressively.   I especially like that a requirement for problem dogs is that their owners seek 'professional' training and that there can be a serious monetary penalty for having a dog that exhibits dangerous behavior.    Dogs that are well socialized are so much less likely to become aggressive and owners need to ensure their dogs get that necessary socialization, so I applaud this move by Surrey City Council.  http://www.theprovince.com/surrey+skips+breed+puts+more+teeth+updated+bylaw/12861994/story.html

 

[AngusThermopyle]

On 1/17/2017 at 4:17 PM, Boges said:

http://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/11-year-dog-bite-fatality-chart-dogsbiteorg.pdf

LOL! DoggiesBite.org! You really take that site seriously! Have you done any research at all into it? They're charlatans, to say the least. For instance, a dog catcher fell and struck her head when she was chasing a dog, they list that as a pit bull fatality in their stats. Another was the person running from a dog (non pit bull) they were hit by a bus, pit bull fatality. Their statistician has been quoted as stating that he doesn't "play the kennel club name game", in other words it doesn't matter what the breed is. If he says it's a pit bull, then it's a pit bull. He also falsely claims a voluminous record of academic credentials, all fake. In fact a journalist obtained two degree's from the university this "expert" claims to have obtained his from. Just one problem though, he got them for his cat. Sadly many people take these liars at face value and believe the fabricated bile that they spew forth. Here's a few facts about Coleen Lynn and the incident that sparked the whole websites creation. You'll notice that her story changes like the weather.

 

http://legal.pblnn.com/pro-bsl-experts/dogbiteorg/109-collen-lynn-seattle-animal-control-records

[OftenWrong]

11 hours ago, dialamah said:

Sometimes, politicians manage to figure out the best solution to a problem.   City of Surrey is passing new bylaws for aggressive dogs but has chosen not to include a breed ban.  The bylaw wants to focus on dogs that are 'at risk' before they actually bite and to assume that all dogs have the capability of acting aggressively.   I especially like that a requirement for problem dogs is that their owners seek 'professional' training and that there can be a serious monetary penalty for having a dog that exhibits dangerous behavior.    Dogs that are well socialized are so much less likely to become aggressive and owners need to ensure their dogs get that necessary socialization, so I applaud this move by Surrey City Council.  http://www.theprovince.com/surrey+skips+breed+puts+more+teeth+updated+bylaw/12861994/story.html

 

Sounds great, wish they'd do that here! My mom has a big mean dog living in the house beside her. She's scared to go out in her own backyard when the dog is out. When she mentioned it to the neighbours, they got highly offensive towards her. They are a couple of dope smoking leftists.

So then one day I was in her yard and the dog came out, started to freak on me. And he is one big black bastard. But I just whistled at him and laughed. Then the owner came out and apologized, and tried to get his dog back in the house, AND I COULD TELL, HE WAS SCARED OF HIS OWN DOG.

I guess the dog's in charge over there.

Edited February 8, 2017 by OftenWrong
Added important anecdote

[Rue]

18 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Sounds great, wish they'd do that here! My mom has a big mean dog living in the house beside her. She's scared to go out in her own backyard when the dog is out. When she mentioned it to the neighbours, they got highly offensive towards her. They are a couple of dope smoking leftists.

So then one day I was in her yard and the dog came out, started to freak on me. And he is one big black bastard. But I just whistled at him and laughed. Then the owner came out and apologized, and tried to get his dog back in the house, AND I COULD TELL, HE WAS SCARED OF HIS OWN DOG.

I guess the dog's in charge over there.

Your comments are serious but I did get a chuckle with the dope smoking leftists.

Actually from what you describe yes the dog sounds like its in charge and if that happens, that's not good. Dogs are pack animals. I love them but if they think they are no.1 over you in the pack, its going to be bad because a dog is a dog, they don't discuss being in charge, they show it by teeth, biting, urinating, jumping and attacking. Those are things that need to be nipped in the bud at months 1 to 9 of a dog's life.

Just make sure your fences are in good shape. Classic or jazz music calms dogs down if you want to try that when you are outside. If the dog ever did get in your yard a noise blaster that repels bears is suggested as is a powerful water hose and walking backwords calmly and not looking in their eyes directly and getting into the house without turning your back. If the dog is as violent as you say it is you have the right to video it from your yard and report it to your city. The dog may need a muzzle. For all you know the idiots are treating the dog poorly or its sick.

You should not have to live in fear of dogs. I am sorry to hear that.

 

Edited February 8, 2017 by Rue

[SpankyMcFarland]

I've seen a lot more dog-to-dog aggression from 'pit bull' type breeds than dog-to-human. They don't fix their stare on you like Shepherds do. That's been my experience. We had to put down a Shepherd because he attacked a relative - he would have killed him if he hadn't been able to get away.

 

 

[SpankyMcFarland]

On 12/20/2016 at 11:08 AM, drummindiver said:

Lol...I try not to discriminate, but they are the only breed I'm nervous of when first meeting.

I am also sorry about your PTSD. I was attacked by of all dogs a Corgi My lip was ripped in half from my nose down. Good scar. 

I posted the link about brain testing. 

 

 

Our Corgi nipped the mailman. He (the dog) was always fairly cranky. They were bred to herd and nip.

Edited May 29, 2017 by SpankyMcFarland

[SpankyMcFarland]

My current maniac often puts her paw on me when I am rubbling her. I thought it was affection but then I found it is a sign of dominance which fits with her behaviour. She doesn't take me very seriously. 

Edited May 29, 2017 by SpankyMcFarland