Russians accused of interfering in election to get Trump elected

ReeferMadness · December 11, 2016

According to a CIA assessment, Russia's interference in the 2016 election was intended to help one candidate: Trump. Predictably, the Trumpkin spin factory is in overdrive, trying to undermine the CIA and denying that the interference influenced the result. However, they're missing the point. As Evan McMullin (former CIA operative, former policy director for House Republicans) tweeted:

Quote

Trump encouraged Russian subversion of our democracy then denied its occurrence despite CIA evidence, while preparing to align with Russia.

At the very least, Trump actively encouraged foreign interference in the election and is now preparing to cover up and evidence of it. This alone should make Americans enraged. Of course, in the current, hyper-partisan environment, Trumpkins will doubtless have no trouble rationalizing this immoral (and probably criminal) behavior.

But the real question isn't even being seriously asked. The real question is how much did Trump know about the interference. Was he or his organization actually involved in some way? The relationship between Trump and Putin has not been thoroughly investigated or documented. Trump himself made several contradictory statements about his relationship with Putin. Senior people associated with his campaign and cabinet have questionable associations with Putin's Russia. Former campaign Paul Manafort is under investigation by the FBI for his dealings. His Secretary of State pick, Rex Tillerson received the Order of Friendship, one of Russia's highest honors, from Putin.

So, is it credible that Trump knew nothing of Russian interference?

Edited January 2, 2017 by Charles Anthony
changed thread title; old title "Russian interferes in election to get Trump elected"

Omni · December 11, 2016

This was discussed earlier and the question was raised if possibly this revelation could give any of the EC people pause before they vote Dec 19.

bush_cheney2004 · December 11, 2016

The Russians do not control the Electoral College.

U.S. intelligence services and state department have "interfered" in foreign elections for decades.....big deal.

Just part of the game.

Derek 2.0 · December 11, 2016

8 minutes ago, ReeferMadness said:

His Secretary of State pick, Rex Tillerson received the Order of Friendship, one of Russia's highest honors, from Putin.

So? I think that would be more to do with his heading one of the largest companies in the World.......ExxonMobil. Which, prior to the drop in oil and sanctions against the Russians, was heavily involved with Russian energy companies in providing them with the technology and expertise (gained in Alaska) in resource extraction in the Russian Arctic.

13 minutes ago, ReeferMadness said:

So, is it credible that Trump knew nothing of Russian interference?

Aside from no proof to indicate he did, sure, why not?

But for this conspiracy to work, there needs to be a reason why? Why would Putin want someone that is going to heavily increase US defense spending, including their nuclear arsenal, to become President? Maybe Trump's statements on exiting the Middle East and no longer giving the American's allies a subsidy in the form of the US military umbrella? Maybe his stance on wanting to work with Russia in combating radical Islam? Or Trump's views on the Red Chinese......the Russians fear the Chinese as much if not more then the NATO led West........

So let's assume Putin did involve himself.......why?

bush_cheney2004 · December 11, 2016

Trump has opened the door to a different U.S. policy for Russia/Putin...seems more concerned with China.

The U.S. has higher priority issues to worry about than playing Cold War patty cake with the Russians and cheap NATO partners.

The more bombs on ISIS the better.

dialamah · December 11, 2016

17 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

The Russians do not control the Electoral College.

U.S. intelligence services and state department have "interfered" in foreign elections for decades.....big deal.

Just part of the game.

Totally agree; who cares if Russia sets up an orange-haired puppet for President of the United States.

Omni · December 11, 2016

21 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

The Russians do not control the Electoral College.

U.S. intelligence services and state department have "interfered" in foreign elections for decades.....big deal.

Just part of the game.

Correct. So then if they find out the Ruskies did interfere with yours, they could go ahead and support the popular vote.

dialamah · December 11, 2016

19 minutes ago, Derek 2.0 said:

So? I think that would be more to do with his heading one of the largest companies in the World

What a weird coincidence; that's what Trump said too!

Sequence of events:

Trump says nice things about Putin.
Trump invites a foreign power to hack into government servers.
Emails from hacked Democrat networks, but not from Republican networks, appear.
Security investigations find evidence Russia was behind the hacking.
Trump appoints an American "Friend of Russia" to the State Department.
Trump knows nothing about Russia hacking anything, and appointed the "Friend of Russia" for some unrelated reason.

Nothing funny going on here, nope.

Edited December 11, 2016 by dialamah
Bad grammer

?Impact · December 11, 2016

Move along, move along

Let's make America grate again.

bush_cheney2004 · December 11, 2016

Clinton must be worse than voters thought if Putin could help Trump win the election.

And she was....

ReeferMadness · December 11, 2016

1 hour ago, Omni said:

This was discussed earlier and the question was raised if possibly this revelation could give any of the EC people pause before they vote Dec 19.

Some EC members already have pause about Trump because of his transparent pandering to racism, sexism, Islamophobia and white supremacy. Sadly, there are insufficient numbers at this time to make a difference.

What would it take for the EC to grow a pair and perform their duties seriously? If it were shown that this interference tipped the election? if it were shown that Trump was aware of it? If it were shown that Trump was involved in it? Would anything do it at this point? I couldn't even guess.

There was endless appetite to delve into the Benghazi affair, Clinton's poor judgement in routing emails to her personal account and the dealings of the Clinton foundation. But nobody seems to care about the gaping and obvious conflicts of interest that Trump has.

Here, we have linkages that suggest the president-elect's organization could have been involved in espionage or even treason. Do enough of the establishment have the intestinal fortitude to take this on? We'll see.

cybercoma · December 11, 2016

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

The Russians do not control the Electoral College.

U.S. intelligence services and state department have "interfered" in foreign elections for decades.....big deal.

Just part of the game.

For someone who was so critical of Trump during the election, you were sure quick to fall prostrate before your emperor.

OftenWrong · December 11, 2016

1 hour ago, ReeferMadness said:

His Secretary of State pick, Rex Tillerson received the Order of Friendship, one of Russia's highest honors, from Putin.

Sounds good. Maybe it's better for the USA to make alliances with the right people around the world. Certainly better than what Obama tried to engage with.

ReeferMadness · December 11, 2016

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

The more bombs on ISIS the better.

Right. And of course every one of those bombs lands on ISIS, doesn't it? Those bombs are smart enough to not kill and maim civilians? kids? Those bombs don't wipe out civilian infrastructure like water purification plants and electrical generation plants, leaving the civilian population to die later of disease?

Oh, I'm sorry. I guess I assumed you might care what happens to poor brown people who might have a different religion than you. My bad - carry on eating popcorn and watching war porn. Cheer on those military stocks too!

bush_cheney2004 · December 11, 2016

12 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

For someone who was so critical of Trump during the election, you were sure quick to fall prostrate before your emperor.

I didn't vote for Trump for fiscal reasons, not foreign policy. Putin is a helluva lot more important than playing nice with lightweight Justin Trudeau.

Derek 2.0 · December 12, 2016

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

that's what Trump said too!

Where? Trump went into Exxon's expertise on Alaska's North Slope, namely on their projects encompassing Point Thomson, and how said project is now mirrored by the Russians in their Arctic?

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Sequence of events:

Trump says nice things about Putin.

Trump invites a foreign power to hack into government servers.

Emails from hacked Democrat networks, but not from Republican networks, appear.

Security investigations find evidence Russia was behind the hacking.

Trump appoints an American "Friend of Russia" to the State Department.

Trump knows nothing about Russia hacking anything, and appointed the "Friend of Russia" for some unrelated reason.

Nothing funny going on here, nope.

So you think Putin helped Trump win the election, because Trump said nice things about Putin? Not much of a conspiracy theory.........

bush_cheney2004 · December 12, 2016

9 minutes ago, ReeferMadness said:

Oh, I'm sorry. I guess I assumed you might care what happens to poor brown people who might have a different religion than you. My bad - carry on eating popcorn and watching war porn. Cheer on those military stocks too!

Thank you...we will. Not a big fan of popcorn, but Cheetos will do.

Trudeau took his American made warplanes and American made bombs back home, after bombing lots of "brown people".

ReeferMadness · December 12, 2016

1 hour ago, Derek 2.0 said:

So let's assume Putin did involve himself.......why?

You've provided possible answers yourself. Russia fears China and wants US as an ally. Russia wants sanctions lifted so that Exxon can drill. US foreign policy is now being subverted to corporate interests. Drain that swamp!!!!

But the interests don't stop there. Putin's Achilles Heel is Russia's reliance on oil revenues to keep the country afloat. So, having a White House full of climate change deniers who will undermine the Paris Accord is in his best interest.

And both Putin and Trump are populists who appeal to bigots of all kinds - racists, homophobe, Islamophobes.

It's like 2 peas in a pod.

OftenWrong · December 12, 2016

9 minutes ago, ReeferMadness said:

Right. And of course every one of those bombs lands on ISIS, doesn't it? Those bombs are smart enough to not kill and maim civilians? kids? Those bombs don't wipe out civilian infrastructure like water purification plants and electrical generation plants, leaving the civilian population to die later of disease?

ISIS is killing way more. And if not stopped, they will spread further and kill even more. Then the whole ME will come under Wahhabism. You fear a dark world? That would be it.

This wouldn't be half the problem that it is now if Clinton and Obama "had a pair" and did something useful at the time. But they were frantically looking for a way to "reach out" to the terrorists, so as not to offend their friends the Saudis, who are probably behind this all the way.

Obama reached out through his television, and drew back a stump. They hacked it off. It's too late for some.

bush_cheney2004 · December 12, 2016

Putin matters....Trudeau doesn't.

ReeferMadness · December 12, 2016

The last time so many American political and business leaders came out for a leader of a foreign major power who was as authoritarian, militaristic, bigoted and nationalistic as Putin was in the 1920's and 1930's.

No points for guessing who that leader was or how things turned out.

Seriously. Americans need to give their heads a shake.

bush_cheney2004 · December 12, 2016

American business interests are more important than smug Canadian fears.

Derek 2.0 · December 12, 2016

1 minute ago, ReeferMadness said:

You've provided possible answers yourself. Russia fears China and wants US as an ally.

Sounds very plausible.........but then many countries want the US as an ally.

2 minutes ago, ReeferMadness said:

Russia wants sanctions lifted so that Exxon can drill.

I think you need to reverse that.......but yes, I've no doubt the Russians want sanctions removed and their relationship to heal

3 minutes ago, ReeferMadness said:

US foreign policy is now being subverted to corporate interests. Drain that swamp!!!!

It's NOW being subverted?!?!?!?!

5 minutes ago, ReeferMadness said:

But the interests don't stop there. Putin's Achilles Heel is Russia's reliance on oil revenues to keep the country afloat. So, having a White House full of climate change deniers who will undermine the Paris Accord is in his best interest.

I don't follow..........if the Trump Administration pulls out all the stops on resource development.......wouldn't the price of O&G continue to fall? I wouldn't think Putin, Trudeau and other Petro States would favor that......

7 minutes ago, ReeferMadness said:

And both Putin and Trump are populists who appeal to bigots of all kinds - racists, homophobe, Islamophobes.

It's like 2 peas in a pod.

In other words, they are Nationalists that put their countries interests first...........Make America/Russia Great Again!!!!!!!

OftenWrong · December 12, 2016

4 minutes ago, ReeferMadness said:

And both Putin and Trump are populists who appeal to bigots of all kinds - racists, homophobe, Islamophobes

Putin is not the bogey man that the Obama administration has made him out to be. Or let's put it this way, no better no worse than practically any world leader. I remember a time when the relations between Russia and the west were much better. George Bush - "I looked in his eyes and saw that he had a soul." He has a sole, damn you.

Fact is, USA interfered with the election in the Ukraine, Clinton practically admitted it by propping up their preferred candidate with lots of cash and media support, and their intent is to put missiles right on the border of Russia. That's a bit more serious than releasing somebody's unsecured emails.

dialamah · December 12, 2016

9 minutes ago, Derek 2.0 said:

So you think Putin helped Trump win the election, because Trump said nice things about Putin? Not much of a conspiracy theory.........

Nope, I think Trump said nice things about Putin to soften up the Americans for their future relationship.

My personal opinion is that it hardly matters who America allies itself with; I just think it's hilarious that people think there isn't any ... errr ... collaboration going on.