Native Ceremony takes place at a public school

[DogOnPorch]

It's a slippery slope allowing religions...any religion...to have a little chat with the kids.

What's so hard to understand about that?

[Bonam]

5 hours ago, cybercoma said:

No I don't. I don't think it was inappropriate. I think whiney people are making mountains out of molehills. 

Mountains out of molehills indeed. You mean like when people complain about "microaggressions" or expect "trigger warnings"? This is the culture you guys wanted, now you get to live with it. 

[cybercoma]

Just now, Bonam said:

Mountains out of molehills indeed. You mean like when people complain about "microaggressions" or expect "trigger warnings"? This is the culture you guys wanted, now you get to live with it. 

Oh look, more trolling. Do "microaggressions" and "trigger warnings" have to do with the topic? Not even a little bit.

Edited November 17, 2016 by cybercoma

[OftenWrong]

46 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

Jim Jones, Anton LeVay, those guys have the same historical and cultural place in Canada, yeah? Your comment is alarmist absurdity. 

You're lack of cultural sensitivity is showing!

[cybercoma]

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

You're lack of cultural sensitivity is showing!

Your inability to tell time is showing.

[Bonam]

5 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

Oh look, more trolling. Do "microaggressions" and "trigger warnings" have to do with the topic? Not even a little bit.

It very much has to do with the topic. The social justice movement has taught people that if they find something that they are even very slightly offended by, or feel is even very slightly inappropriate, or just hurts someone's feelings a little bit, that it is a societal problem and must be addressed on the broadest scale possible. Before this age of hypersensitivity, complaints about one instance of a possibly inappropriate religious-themed ritual in a school would have likely met responses of "get over it". Today, no such luck. If someone was a little bit put off by the ritual, then we must have comprehensive national soul-searching to determine how best to deal with this so that no one's feelings are hurt, and then we must spend years carefully educating everyone about the issue and any potential pitfalls or ways they might accidentally give offense or do something inappropriate. 

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, cybercoma said:

Your inability to tell time is showing.

 

A Star Trek reference if I'm not mistaken.

Data's creator.

[Charles Anthony]

Folks, 

Please avoid the personal banter. 

 

HINT:  If a reader needs to read the names of MLWebbers to understand the meaning of YOUR post, then your post is likely to consist of too much personal banter. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, -1=e^ipi said:

Religious fairy tales should never be respected.

 

Trying to force children to respect such nonsense sounds like indoctrination.

This is my opinion too.  If this had been a Catholic ceremony there would have been no supporters, and the OP would have been greeted with affirmation all around.  It's because this is a FN ceremony that slack is being cut.

The fact is, as you say, that they are all fairy tales and should be taught as such.

[Michael Hardner]

Context:

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2015/04/20/no-place-for-the-lords-prayer-in-public-institutions.html

As of 2015 town councils in Canada open sessions with the Lord's Prayer.

[Michael Hardner]

Context:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/banning-prayers-in-public-schools-1.3405175

2016 Christian Prayers played over loudspeaker at public school every day.

 

[TimG]

1 hour ago, cybercoma said:

Schools have a mandate to teach students about our country's history, what's so hard for you to understand about that?

Should that include compulsory participation in Christian communion ceremonies? After all Christianity is a big part of our history too. Schools can academically discuss the ceremony and what it means to Natives. They can should videos of the ceremony being practiced if they. Compulsory participation is an religious ritual crosses the line and you know it.

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Context:

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2015/04/20/no-place-for-the-lords-prayer-in-public-institutions.html

As of 2015 town councils in Canada open sessions with the Lord's Prayer.

 

25 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Context:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/banning-prayers-in-public-schools-1.3405175

2016 Christian Prayers played over loudspeaker at public school every day.

 

Exactly  if the Op were in support of the lady in the CBC article there would have general agreement, except maybe from Betsy.  

 

Edited November 17, 2016 by bcsapper

[OftenWrong]

They should stick to teaching the standard curriculum, nothing more without parental consent. In other words, learn about reading, writing and arithmetic. That and anal intercourse.

[cybercoma]

11 hours ago, TimG said:

Should that include compulsory participation in Christian communion ceremonies? After all Christianity is a big part of our history too. Schools can academically discuss the ceremony and what it means to Natives. They can should videos of the ceremony being practiced if they. Compulsory participation is an religious ritual crosses the line and you know it.

A Catholic priest wouldn't give communion to someone who has not had the sacrament. They would bless them instead. And yes. Kids should be exposed to a Catholic mass.

[drummindiver]

14 hours ago, WestCoastRunner said:

Indoctrination. Oh please!  That area has a high percentage of First Nation and Eyeball may know more. This is an act to demonstrate inclusiveness in the community. It's a shame this woman couldn't accept it for its innocence in sharing cultures. 

No religious ceremony has ever been innocent when it comes to sharing culture. It's all about indoctrination.

[msj]

42 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

And yes. Kids should be exposed to a Catholic mass.

Again, there is a difference between forcing kids to participate in a religious ritual and learning about it or observing it. 

Hell, if one wants to observe baptism then one could just watch the ending of The Godfather. 

[drummindiver]

14 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

Or have Anton LeVay's church come by for a demo? Or Jim Jones? Cultural enrichment.

What's wrong with the. Church of Satan? 

http://www.churchofsatan.com/eleven-rules-of-earth.php

 

The tenets of The Satanic Temple are compassionate and I wish religious people lead their lives this way. 

https://thesatanictemple.com/about-us/tenets/

[drummindiver]

14 hours ago, cybercoma said:

Well you explain the difference to me. Explain to me why the former is NOT a problem while the latter is. Because I'm not buying that there's any sort of harm caused here and in fact I believe this enriches the students' understanding of indigenous peoples and their history and culture. So you go ahead and make an argument why this is harmful.

Give the hysterical hyperbole a break. Teaching is one thing, having children participate in religious practices that are not their own is not teaching, its attempted indoctrination and no parent should accept it. As a non smoker, just the smell would be triggering. As a militant atheist, if I had a child and he was forced to participate in this, or communion, or bow to the east, there would be hell to pay. You're continued  bleating that it's all us alt right cultists who oppose this is weak.

14 hours ago, cybercoma said:

Unless you're interested in breeding ignorant and closed-minded children, then yes. That's exactly what we do because children should learn about different religions and cultures that are in Canada. But I can see how someone from the alt-right cult would rather indoctrinate those children himself, so he can teach them the kind of bigotry and hatred that's posted on the alt-right blogosphere and forums daily. You wouldn't want them actually having first hand experience with different religions and cultures because then it's incredibly difficult to teach them to hate and become obedient little white nationalists.

Yes, learn. Not participate. They don't participate in sex Ed. They don't get dissected in science. 

Your hyperbole in this statement is over the top. If someone doesn't want to participate in a religious ceremony it's because they are alt right WHITE supremists. What a load of bollocks.

[cybercoma]

45 minutes ago, drummindiver said:

its attempted indoctrination

So you're calling my arguments "hyperbole," but you consider this attempted indoctrination. How many kids do you suppose it stuck? Do you think maybe half of them or so have converted completely to indigenous culture and spiritual beliefs? I think you're being ridiculous and given your history in threads about indigenous people, you probably just don't want kids learning anything about the First Nations because then they might have more respect for them than you do.

[cybercoma]

48 minutes ago, drummindiver said:

Yes, learn. Not participate. They don't participate in sex Ed. They don't get dissected in science. 

There's all kinds of schooling where kids participate. Vivisection is illegal, so you're making an idiotic argument there. Kids do dissect frogs and worms in school. At my school we even dissected pig fetuses. We went on all kinds of field trips where we participated in a variety of different activities, including indigenous ones. Also, participation is mandatory in Ontario with public volunteering and co-op programs are pushed on students like there's no tomorrow without them. Participation is a key element of learning and it's just plain ignorance to suggest otherwise.

[drummindiver]

59 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

So you're calling my arguments "hyperbole," but you consider this attempted indoctrination. How many kids do you suppose it stuck? Do you think maybe half of them or so have converted completely to indigenous culture and spiritual beliefs? I think you're being ridiculous and given your history in threads about indigenous people, you probably just don't want kids learning anything about the First Nations because then they might have more respect for them than you do.

My history re indigenous people is that they took over Caledonia illegally and the OPP disn't help,   all proven in court and settled with tax payers money. Not one racist comment from me ever.

Keep religion out if school. All religion. First Nations don't get a pass.

[drummindiver]

59 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

There's all kinds of schooling where kids participate. Vivisection is illegal, so you're making an idiotic argument there. Kids do dissect frogs and worms in school. At my school we even dissected pig fetuses. We went on all kinds of field trips where we participated in a variety of different activities, including indigenous ones. Also, participation is mandatory in Ontario with public volunteering and co-op programs are pushed on students like there's no tomorrow without them. Participation is a key element of learning and it's just plain ignorance to suggest otherwise.

Participation in religous/cult activities? I think it ignorant to presume other people's children should be forced because of your opinion. 

[BC_chick]

Parents were informed in the letter that students would participate by holding a cedar branch while smoke from sage was fanned over them to experience "cleansing energy."

 

As someone who has signed many a consent forms for field trips, I have to say these uptight idiots need to zip it.  Keep your kids at home if you don't want them participating in something that God forbid, might expand their horizons.

If there is anything that makes me uncomfortable as a parent in my kid's school curriculum, that's what I would do.  

[Boges]

1 hour ago, BC_chick said:

Parents were informed in the letter that students would participate by holding a cedar branch while smoke from sage was fanned over them to experience "cleansing energy."

 

As someone who has signed many a consent forms for field trips, I have to say these uptight idiots need to zip it.  Keep your kids at home if you don't want them participating in something that God forbid, might expand their horizons.

If there is anything that makes me uncomfortable as a parent in my kid's school curriculum, that's what I would do.  

You conveniently left out this portion or the story in the OP. 

Quote

Servatius went to the school to learn more, but discovered that the ceremony had already taken place, and that all students were required to participate, said John Carpay, president of the JCCF.

and

Quote

"The School District does not agree that either of the activities were impermissible, but does agree, with respect to the cleansing, that it could have been made clearer to students and parents the voluntary nature of participation and that students were free to opt out."

Not enough lead time was given for parents to decide if it's something they wanted their children to participate in and the teachers led students to believe participating was compulsory, which it wasn't.