Native Ceremony takes place at a public school

[Boges]

1 hour ago, BC_chick said:

What do you think of my kids's Christmas concert next month at her school?

Exclusively referred to as a Christmas concert in every correspondence. 

So you think singing Frosty the Snowman is a religious ritual? 

Edited November 18, 2016 by Boges

[BC_chick]

21 hours ago, Boges said:

So you think singing Frosty the Snowman is a religious ritual? 

Quote is stuck on my iPhone sorry. I think both events are equally cultural actually. 

Edited November 19, 2016 by Michael Hardner
added original quote to BC_chick's response

[Michael Hardner]

On 11/16/2016 at 10:53 PM, Michael Hardner said:

Context:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/banning-prayers-in-public-schools-1.3405175

2016 Christian Prayers played over loudspeaker at public school every day.

 

Reposting - some seemed to miss this.

[Boges]

15 minutes ago, BC_chick said:

Quote is stuck on my iPhone sorry. I think both events are equally cultural actually. 

That sounds pretty ridiculous actually.

Sure Silent Night, Oh Come on Ye Faithful, even Joy to the World, may be considered ritualistic, even though the significance of those songs are pretty watered down. But I'm pretty sure public schools have gone to great length to minimize the religious Christmas Carols. If the Carols are purely secular or even pop music (Mariah Carey's All I Want for Christmas is You) then they aren't even remotely comparable to a ritual where you want try to remove evil spirits. 

Would you also support, not a learning experience in a class, but an assembly where all students are encouraged to participate in a smudging ceremony? And if you would, you'd have to agree that having students offered communion would also be acceptable. 

Edited November 18, 2016 by Boges

[msj]

55 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Reposting - some seemed to miss this.

No, didn't miss it but it is such an obvious case what is there to say about it? 

Good for the woman for challenging it.  I support her on this. 

Would be nice for Saskatchewan to update themselves to modern secular times as BC has been trying to do with section 76 of its School Act. 

Well, until the Nuu-Chah-Nulth came along to try and undermine it with their "cultural" argument in Port Alberni as linked in the OP. 

 

[msj]

I agree with Boges: singing a watered down carol or even various folk songs from Jewish/Hindu/Sikh/etc doesn't bother me.  

The context is different than partaking in a religious ceremony. 

But have a priest show up to get little Johnny to sing "Onward Christian Soldier" after forcing Johnny to sit through a religious ceremony because his parents had less than 2 days notice to be notified? 

Well, that's worth suing over regardless of how much notice is given. 

[msj]

1 hour ago, BC_chick said:

Yeah and I bet you get all fired up over Christmas and Good Friday being stat holidays. 

As an employer I hate stats as it means my staff get time off with pay.

I'm paying them to sit on their asses while I am often working (Good Friday anyway - I no longer work at Xmas anymore since I usually am on vacation in a foreign country which often proves interesting as even in communist Laos they have Xmas decorations, for example). 

But, whatever, the extra 11 days or so that my staff get off with pay each year hopefully makes them more productive overall.  

[msj]

2 hours ago, Altai said:

But you dont live there as a right given to you. You invaded it. So it looks like to complain about a line violation in traffic while you dont even have a driver license.

I did not invade anywhere.

I was born on Vancouver Island long before many first nation's people were born here and I am not going anywhere.  

You do realize that people like me just can't do DNA tests and then carve ourselves up: ok, I'll cut off this chunk that can stay here in Canada since it is First Nation, oh, this leg I'll send to Italy, that arm I'll send to England, my other arm to Scotland, this part to Africa, that part to central Europe etc etc... [I'm quite the brown eyed mutt, no?]  

No, seriously, in the real world us invaders are not going anywhere hence the need for treaty settlements (which, btw, I happen to audit in my profession). 

 

[msj]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

So you think singing Frosty the Snowman is a religious ritual? 

Do you remember the lyrics though? 

I mean, all types of bad come out of that song: 

The eyes of coal is an obvious nod to the coal industry - Frosty is probably a Trump voter! 

He is a snowman that came to life one day - a reference to Christ's resurrection?  You be the judge. 

He began to dance around - well, okay, so he's not a Baptist. 

The sun was hot that day - an obvious slag against Apollo and the Greek/Roman pantheon. A crude, petty, mean allegation. 

And obeying a traffic cop! Yeah, he's not a #blacklivesmatter protestor, that's for sure. 

https://kidsongs.com/lyrics/frosty-the-snowman.html/

 

Edited November 18, 2016 by msj

[Boges]

The rare 5 straight posts. Well done. 

[msj]

What can I say, it's a flex day so I'm taking it easy, getting winter tires on my car, walking down the street whistling "O Come All Ye Faithful." 

[drummindiver]

12 hours ago, ?Impact said:

A parent warning the school is what you suggested, since when is the parent judge, jury, and executioner? I would like to see copies of letters from this parent complaining about Halloween, Christmas, Valentines, Thanksgiving, and other Christian derived school activities. This lady has too much time on her hands, and seems fixated on taking them out on native customs. Did she get ripped off when visiting the trading post, that dream catcher she bought fell apart?

Whaaaaaat?   Yes,  clearly, First Nations people have nothing to offer bUT defective dream catchers at the trading post. 

[drummindiver]

12 hours ago, ?Impact said:

Obviously you need to go back and read what was written, and not repeat your interpretation that is wrong. The child is not being cleansed with the sage, and the child is not joining a religion either. A baptism however is about the child being cleansed and admitted to the Christian church. 

The children,  the room, and all the furniture cleansed. Same as baptism or Shahada? Not sure

[?Impact]

Some of my neighbours have already put up Christmas lights outside. I will be forced to walk by them every day for 2 months. That is a massive violation of my Constitutional rights. I demand compensation for the grief I am suffering. 

[drummindiver]

11 hours ago, ?Impact said:

Up until 1996, daily reciting the Lords prayer and a reading from Christian scriptures was compulsory in British Columbia schools unless the school received a written letter from the parent/guardian then the teacher could excuse that student and assign him/her other work. It was then that section 76 (1) & (2) of the School Act were added.

i wonder what Candice has to say if he child sneezes and the teacher says "Bless you".

20 years ago. Laws changed.

Edited November 18, 2016 by drummindiver

[msj]

1 minute ago, ?Impact said:

Some of my neighbours have already put up Christmas lights outside. I will be forced to walk by them every day for 2 months. That is a massive violation of my Constitutional rights. I demand compensation for the grief I am suffering. 

Um, what people do on their own private property is up to them so stop being silly. 

For a government to interfere with such displays would be a violation of the Charter unless some logical reasons were used: light pollution perhaps? Fire hazard? Traffic posed a danger?  Those would seem reasonable.  

Because you don't like it? No, not gonna work. 

[drummindiver]

5 hours ago, Altai said:

Its Canadian native's lands and they can do whatever they want. 

Turkey is Jewish lands they can do what they want.

Edited November 18, 2016 by drummindiver

[msj]

As for purification rituals, interesting to see what Wikipedia has to say:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritual_purification

Trigger Warning: It is possible one may learn something merely from the description of the ritual and without participating in it.  Mileage will vary. 

Edited November 18, 2016 by msj

[Boges]

3 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Some of my neighbours have already put up Christmas lights outside. I will be forced to walk by them every day for 2 months. That is a massive violation of my Constitutional rights. I demand compensation for the grief I am suffering. 

Do you really believe your hyperbole?

Christmas lights aren't really a Christian ritual at all. I guess the Pagan traditions we pass down for generations are offensive to some.

But even if that was true, it's on private property and not in a public school. 

[drummindiver]

From the states, but finally some parity. Not Levayen, but they'll get around to it. Wonder what other religions are going to come out of the woodwork? You let one in, you have to let all in. First Nations should not get a pass.

https://afterschoolsatan.com/

[drummindiver]

16 minutes ago, msj said:

As for purification rituals, interesting to see what Wikipedia has to say:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritual_purification

Trigger Warning: It is possible one may learn something merely from the description of the ritual and without participating in it.  Mileage will vary. 

Very informative. Clearly religious.  

[?Impact]

29 minutes ago, msj said:

Um, what people do on their own private property is up to them so stop being silly. 

Not if it is visible from the public street. What would happen if a couple started copulating on their front lawn? No, these Christmas lights and decorations are a massive violation of my Constitutional rights. I demand full and just compensation. For every dollar this bored housewife in BC gets, I expect the same from each and every single neighbour that I walk by - and for each and every single occurrence. 

[msj]

Just now, ?Impact said:

Not if it is visible from the public street. What would happen if a couple started copulating on their front lawn? No, these Christmas lights and decorations are a massive violation of my Constitutional rights. I demand full and just compensation. For every dollar this bored housewife in BC gets, I expect the same from each and every single neighbour that I walk by - and for each and every single occurrence. 

Fucking on the front lawn is related to indecency laws. Xmas lights are not indecent. 

You are proving yourself to be quite the hyperbolic silly person on this front. 

Maybe we can have a serious discussion when you come to your senses. 

[Boges]

it's funny how Liberals and Progressive work very hard to try and remove all aspects of religion from public schools because of the separation of church and state. But when a minority group tries to peddle their religion, they have to backtrack huge in progressive principals to try and justify it. 

It's similar to Liberals placating extremist muslim groups who have very backwards social views, they would never tolerate from WASPs. 

Edited November 18, 2016 by Boges

[DogOnPorch]

7 minutes ago, Boges said:

it's funny how Liberals and Progressive work very hard to try and remove all aspects of religion from public schools because of the separation of church and state. But when a minority group tries to peddle their religion, they have to backtrack huge in progressive principals to try and justify it. 

It's similar to Liberals placating extremist muslim groups who have very backwards social views, they would never tolerate from WASPs. 

 

Or pushing zero-population growth to the kids in the 60s and 70s then pushing mass immigration on the following generations...social experiments Dr Frankenstein should be in charge of.