Native Ceremony takes place at a public school

[OftenWrong]

19 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Science is generally concerned with facts, and reality, and stuff like that.   Not so much the fairy tales. Unless they are called "fairy tales". Then that would be okay. 

Einstein said "Imagination is more important than intelligence." What you think of as science is run-of-the-mill analysis and research within the accepted paradigm. You must concede that science is not complete, and likely flawed in many areas which are limited by normal human cognitive abilities. It takes a genius "weirdo" to come along and make significant breakthoughs to advance science. Then the ordinary folk can jump in and start writing their papers.

[OftenWrong]

In short, lock up the dreamer, and we are doomed.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Einstein said "Imagination is more important than intelligence." What you think of as science is run-of-the-mill analysis and research within the accepted paradigm. You must concede that science is not complete, and likely flawed in many areas which are limited by normal human cognitive abilities. It takes a genius "weirdo" to come along and make significant breakthoughs to advance science. Then the ordinary folk can jump in and start writing their papers.

I guess in some ways, even Einstein was a pratt.

[Bonam]

32 minutes ago, TimG said:

I see no evidence that the young are more able to filter bad information. The proliferation of 'safe spaces' and other such attempts to simply suppress speech they don't agree with makes the young more susceptible to manipulation. Not less.

I don't know to what extent all the bullshit on campuses about safe spaces, trigger warnings, microaggressions and such is actually coming from students and to what extent it's being pushed by a few SJW staff/faculty. Still, you could be right, the prevalence of nonsense SJW brainwashing is high indeed and clearly large numbers of young people are failing to filter that out. 

[Michael Hardner]

Quote

the prevalence

What is 'the prevalence' ?  This controversy seems like a media fad, as I already said, but if somebody can provide me some evidence that this is really a thing I am interested.

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

I guess in some ways, even Einstein was a pratt.

Indeed. He was.... "deplorable".

[Guest]

His hairdresser sure thought so...

[OftenWrong]

21 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

What is 'the prevalence' ?  This controversy seems like a media fad, as I already said, but if somebody can provide me some evidence that this is really a thing I am interested.

In itself it seems like nothing. I think what gets some people excited is the idea that, while leftists openly despise the notion that Christianity be taught in our elementary schools, they are ok with any other religion, be it native or oriental, under the guise of "cultural exchange". As though Christian teachings are not also cultural.

[TimG]

2 hours ago, Bonam said:

I don't know to what extent all the bullshit on campuses about safe spaces, trigger warnings, microaggressions and such is actually coming from students and to what extent it's being pushed by a few SJW staff/faculty. Still, you could be right, the prevalence of nonsense SJW brainwashing is high indeed and clearly large numbers of young people are failing to filter that out. 

Gross generalizations can be problematic no matter which age group you are talking about. That said, the university administrators are often complicit is creating an environment that does not tolerate dissent from the SJW ideology. This means that even if most of the nonsense comes from a vocal minority the majority are forced comply for fear of bringing the attention of university administrators.

[Michael Hardner]

8 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

... while leftists openly despise the notion that Christianity be taught in our elementary schools, they are ok with any other religion, be it native or oriental, under the guise of "cultural exchange".  

Hypocrisy is easy fodder for mockery, and low-hanging fruit for easy discussion.  As such, hypocrites on the left- and right- are held out as representing that viewpoint in general, both here and elsewhere.  

[cybercoma]

11 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

What is 'the prevalence' ?  This controversy seems like a media fad, as I already said, but if somebody can provide me some evidence that this is really a thing I am interested.

It is a media fad. It boils down to people not being able to openly harass and abuse people of colour, lgbtq students, and others, especially in work spaces like libraries and shared offices.

[TimG]

9 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

It is a media fad. It boils down to people not being able to openly harass and abuse people of colour, lgbtq students, and others, especially in work spaces like libraries and shared offices.

Except it has nothing to with that. The people doing the most of harassment are SJWs attacking people who are just going about their business with no particular ill will against anyone. The entire nonsense designer pronouns illustrates how the SJW cannot claim to be protecting the rights of anyone and  are only  in the business of proselytizing religion.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, cybercoma said:

It is a media fad. It boils down to people not being able to openly harass and abuse people of colour, lgbtq students, and others, especially in work spaces like libraries and shared offices.

You mean upset them, with an opinion they don't agree with?

[cybercoma]

1 hour ago, TimG said:

Except it has nothing to with that. The people doing the most of harassment are SJWs attacking people who are just going about their business with no particular ill will against anyone. The entire nonsense designer pronouns illustrates how the SJW cannot claim to be protecting the rights of anyone and  are only  in the business of proselytizing religion.

Have you ever stepped foot on a university campus?

[cybercoma]

3 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

You mean upset them, with an opinion they don't agree with?

That's not what "safe spaces" are and more importantly it shows you haven't the slightest clue about where they are on campuses. But of course, I'm used to people who know nothing about what they're talking about plastering their uneducated opinions all over this forum.

[Guest]

Just now, cybercoma said:

That's not what "safe spaces" are and more importantly it shows you haven't the slightest clue about where they are on campuses. But of course, I'm used to people who know nothing about what they're talking about plastering their uneducated opinions all over this forum.

Yes, it does get around.

[cybercoma]

I'm sick of idiots crying about not having their Junior KKK rallies on university campuses and not being allowed to openly abuse and denigrate people. Cry me a river. Racist sympathizers like you and TimG think you're getting on your intellectual high horse and just defending freedoms, when you're literally defending abusive scum. You're crushing the freedoms of the oppressed by advocating for their oppressors. You are part of the problem.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, cybercoma said:

I'm sick of idiots crying about not having their Junior KKK rallies on university campuses and not being allowed to openly abuse and denigrate people. Cry me a river. Racist sympathizers like you and TimG think you're getting on your intellectual high horse and just defending freedoms, when you're literally defending abusive scum. You're crushing the freedoms of the oppressed by advocating for their oppressors. You are part of the problem.

Oh what absolute bollocks you talk.  Exposing people to ideas they might not be comfortable with, forcing them to realize that people might have different opinions, preventing them from shutting out all but the fluffy and the pure, is not akin to a KKK rally, and actually shows you know a fair bit about plastering one's uneducated opinions all over this forum.

You know exactly what we are talking about when we discuss "safe spaces", and it has nothing to do with open abuse and denigration.

[Boges]

5 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

I'm sick of idiots crying about not having their Junior KKK rallies on university campuses and not being allowed to openly abuse and denigrate people. Cry me a river. Racist sympathizers like you and TimG think you're getting on your intellectual high horse and just defending freedoms, when you're literally defending abusive scum. You're crushing the freedoms of the oppressed by advocating for their oppressors. You are part of the problem.

That level of hyperbole isn't helpful at all. Most examples of Universities shutting down debate don't involve KKK rallies or anything like that. But if you consider anyone that doesn't tow the line on every progressive issue is a racist sympathizer, it may seem that way. 

[cybercoma]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

Oh what absolute bollocks you talk.  Exposing people to ideas they might not be comfortable with.....

Yeah. I mean, why can't I just go around calling for the extermination of the Jews or saying black people aren't really humans but more evolved apes? Or why can't I go around saying "faggots" have a mental illness and should be locked away? These are just ideas. You support their proliferation, which either makes you completely ignorant or scum. I believe when people go to work or students go to school, they should feel safe and not threatened and harassed. This is not about people being "comfortable" and never has been. That's what racist pieces of shit are claiming. It's about people having the right to go to school without being actively abused.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

Yeah. I mean, why can't I just go around calling for the extermination of the Jews or saying black people aren't really humans but more evolved apes? Or why can't I go around saying "faggots" have a mental illness and should be locked away? These are just ideas. You support their proliferation, which either makes you completely ignorant or scum. I believe when people go to work or students go to school, they should feel safe and not threatened and harassed. This is not about people being "comfortable" and never has been. That's what racist pieces of shit are claiming. It's about people having the right to go to school without being actively abused.

Again, you talk such absolute rubbish.  You can call for the extermination of the Jews or say black people aren't really humans if you want, and I would hope that, on a university campus especially, you would be challenged.  Ridiculed too.  Charged, if incitement was discerned.

You can also call for the removal of the Jews from Palestinian lands, and again, I hope you would be challenged, but not ridiculed or charged, instead allowed to state your opinion.  I don't think all the campus Jews should have the right to retreat to a safe space where they don't have to hear it.  If a person can't deal with valid ideas that they simply disagree with or don't like, they probably shouldn't be at a University.  Comparing them to the ridiculous is not really dealing with them.

Edited November 28, 2016 by bcsapper

[Boges]

7 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

Yeah. I mean, why can't I just go around calling for the extermination of the Jews or saying black people aren't really humans but more evolved apes? Or why can't I go around saying "faggots" have a mental illness and should be locked away? These are just ideas. You support their proliferation, which either makes you completely ignorant or scum. I believe when people go to work or students go to school, they should feel safe and not threatened and harassed. This is not about people being "comfortable" and never has been. That's what racist pieces of shit are claiming. It's about people having the right to go to school without being actively abused.

Uhhh what does any of that have to do with a public school forcing students to participate in a religious ceremony? 

[Boges]

Calling for the extermination of Jews is ironic considering that many Universities allow Israeli Apartheid Week where people who do want Jews to be exterminated are celebrated. 

[TimG]

22 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

I'm sick of idiots crying about not having their Junior KKK rallies on university campuses and not being allowed to openly abuse and denigrate people. Cry me a river. Racist sympathizers like you and TimG think you're getting on your intellectual high horse and just defending freedoms, when you're literally defending abusive scum. You're crushing the freedoms of the oppressed by advocating for their oppressors. You are part of the problem.

More examples of the unhinged zealotry which makes it impossible to take the SJW types seriously. It is truly absurd the suggest that objecting to the delusional narcissism implicit in the idea that people should pick their own pronoun is equivalent to attending KKK rallies.

A rational person confronted with question of acknowledging non-binary gender identities would propose a new singular pronoun similar to what was done with Ms. in the 70s. However, SJWs are not interested in rationality so they instead instead that everyone should be able to make up their own pronouns. That is why that example shows how SJWs do not really care about protecting rights. It is a religion. Nothing more. Nothing less.

To tie it back to the topic at hand: any rational person should be able to see that smudging is religious practice equivalent to requiring kids to recite the lord's prayer. Pressuring kids to participate in either is simply wrong. If it was simply a demonstration it would be fine.

Edited November 28, 2016 by TimG

[The_Squid]

30 minutes ago, TimG said:

It is a religion.

When you say that, it doesn't help your argument.  It's not a religion.  Maybe you mean it's like a religion in that it's dogmatic.