Native Ceremony takes place at a public school

[cybercoma]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

Again, you talk such absolute rubbish. 

It's easy to dismiss when it doesn't affect you in the slightest.

[cybercoma]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

Uhhh what does any of that have to do with a public school forcing students to participate in a religious ceremony? 

People brought up Safe Spaces.

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

It's easy to dismiss when it doesn't affect you in the slightest.

It does.  I find it somewhat irritating..

Edited November 28, 2016 by bcsapper

[cybercoma]

You're not the one who's being threatened by white nationalists and misogynists. It's too really too bad if you're "irritated" by not being able to push a violent and hateful agenda that literally threatens people.

[Guest]

Just now, cybercoma said:

You're not the one who's being threatened by white nationalists and misogynists. It's too really too bad if you're "irritated" by not being able to push a violent and hateful agenda that literally threatens people.

Yeah, I'd have to see if that would irritate me.  I've never tried it.

 

 

[cybercoma]

You're doing it here when you criticize "safe spaces," which are places on campus that students who have been historically abused and oppressed can gather without having to deal with racist, misogynistic, or hateful garbage. But you and others see that as a problem, thereby giving approval to the lowlife scum.

[Guest]

Just now, cybercoma said:

You're doing it here when you criticize "safe spaces," which are places on campus that students who have been historically abused and oppressed can gather without having to deal with racist, misogynistic, or hateful garbage. But you and others see that as a problem, thereby giving approval to the lowlife scum.

And we're back to the bollocks.  It's all very circular.  The problem I see is that everything you disagree with is racist, misogynistic, or hateful garbage.  It actually isn't.  But in this instance, that's what bollocks means.

[Bonam]

14 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

You're doing it here when you criticize "safe spaces," which are places on campus that students who have been historically abused and oppressed can gather without having to deal with racist, misogynistic, or hateful garbage. But you and others see that as a problem, thereby giving approval to the lowlife scum.

College is supposed to prepare students for the real world. If we were talking about elementary school here, or even high school perhaps where most of the students are still minors, it would make a lot of sense to have places where people can go to escape situations they find uncomfortable. Kids need to be sheltered, sometimes. But people in college are adults, soon to be working in a variety of challenging fields filled with diverse people, many of whom do not live and breathe SJW ideology. Should every workplace be required to have a "safe space", too? Should cities have public safe spaces, perhaps?

As for universities, your description of "safe spaces" is entirely wrong, because it does not refer to specific places on campus that students can gather without having to deal with "racist/etc garbage". Rather, today, the entire campus is viewed as the safe space, including class rooms, dorms, guest lectures, etc. Anything that can hurt someone's feelings that occurs anywhere on campus (or off campus in social media belonging to students/staff/faculty) is a potential target. 

Anyway this whole discussion more properly belongs in the other thread regarding:

 

Edited November 28, 2016 by Bonam

[eyeball]

39 minutes ago, Bonam said:

Anyway this whole discussion more properly belongs in the other thread regarding:

 

No it shouldn't, this is a thread about thin-skinned people coming unglued over a native waving a burning bush around an elementary school.

[Boges]

28 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No it shouldn't, this is a thread about thin-skinned people coming unglued over a native waving a burning bush around an elementary school.

And if parents got upset because a school made students have bread and wine symbolically consuming the body and blood of Christ, would they be equally as thin-skinned?

Edited November 28, 2016 by Boges

[Michael Hardner]

Back on topic, good to see.

[?Impact]

2 hours ago, Boges said:

And if parents got upset because a school made students have bread and wine symbolically consuming the body and blood of Christ, would they be equally as thin-skinned?

I know my kids made a dreidel at public school, and no doubt a menorah as well, yet I have yet to see that in the national news. When I was a kid we visited Notre-Dame Church (now Basilica) on a school trip, and no uproar. I don't know if cathedrals, churches, etc. are still included in school outings, but I expect the bigger problem today is controlling a bunch of rowdy kids. This is only a story because some busybody helicopter mom had nothing better to do.

This is not equivalent of communion, it is more like the use of incense for purification and sanctification. The Holy Eucharist is only offered under specific circumstances, so it would not be offered to a public school group. The rules vary by the church, but generally there are limited circumstances where it would be offered outside their own church. Catholic priests for example would only offer to Catholics in a state of grace, have made a good confession since their last mortal sin, believe in transubstantiation, observe the Eucharistic fast, and not be under an ecclesiastical censure such as excommunication. There are very limited circumstances where a Catholic priest would offer communion to a non-Catholic, and that would generally only be to eastern orthodox Christians because of shared belief of the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. While many other Christian churches do observe holy communion, there is a lot of disagreement about real presence. Even the Anglican church which reached substantial agreement on the doctrine of the Eucharist with Roman Catholic theologians has yet to be accepted by the Roman Catholic church.

Edited November 28, 2016 by ?Impact

[msj]

So I have your argument right: are you saying that the Holy Eucharist is a "real" religious ritual whereas a little burning of sage is not a "real" religious ritual and, therefore, is "just" cultural?  

And, for further clarification, a baptism: is that not a "real" religious ritual too?  

 

 

[?Impact]

2 minutes ago, msj said:

So I have your argument right: are you saying that the Holy Eucharist is a "real" religious ritual whereas a little burning of sage is not a "real" religious ritual and, therefore, is "just" cultural?  

And, for further clarification, a baptism: is that not a "real" religious ritual too?  

A baptism is a ritual that make one an official member of the church. Taking part in communion is only for those that are part of the church.

Cleansing/purification are general rituals and don't are not specifically for a member.

It is all hogwash as far as I am concerned, but I am just pointing out what the equivalent would be. 

[TimG]

4 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Cleansing/purification are general rituals and don't are not specifically for a member.\

Participating in a cleansing ritual is like reciting the lord's prayer. Is that acceptable in our schools?

[?Impact]

41 minutes ago, TimG said:

Participating in a cleansing ritual is like reciting the lord's prayer. Is that acceptable in our schools?

No, it is more like a guest lecturer reading the lord's prayer once. Why can't you accept comparable arguments, is your case so weak that you have to make it sound bigger than it is?

[cybercoma]

6 hours ago, Bonam said:

College is supposed to prepare students for the real world.

And in the real world, when you're a racist piece of garbage who harasses your co-workers or clients you get written up or fired. That's the real world.

[The_Squid]

SJWs aren't always out to create a safe space against abuse.... some of them are trying to silence opinions that they don't like.  And that goes way too far on university campuses.

Like attempting to ban Marie Henein (Ghomeshi's lawyer) from giving a lecture on campuses.  Apparently having her speak would "perpetuate rape culture".  That's simply asinine. 

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/decision-to-have-ghomeshi-lawyer-marie-henein-speak-at-universities-perpetuates-rape-culture-critics-say

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

And in the real world, when you're a racist piece of garbage who harasses your co-workers or clients you get written up or fired. That's the real world.

Well that's a relief.  What if you just have an opinion they don't agree with?

[Bonam]

8 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

And in the real world, when you're a racist piece of garbage who harasses your co-workers or clients you get written up or fired. That's the real world.

There's a big difference between the tiny sliver of the population who are actually "racist pieces of garbage" and the giant swathe of people that are labelled as such by social justice ideologues. For example, as discussed in the other thread I linked, a professor who made a specific and nuanced statement about the use of made-up pronouns was compared to "racist pieces of garbage". 

[msj]

1 hour ago, ?Impact said:

A baptism is a ritual that make one an official member of the church. Taking part in communion is only for those that are part of the church.

Cleansing/purification are general rituals and don't are not specifically for a member.

It is all hogwash as far as I am concerned, but I am just pointing out what the equivalent would be. 

So a religious ritual is not religious if it can involve people outside of the religious group? 

[?Impact]

40 minutes ago, msj said:

So a religious ritual is not religious if it can involve people outside of the religious group? 

No, that is not what I said. Go back and reread.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, eyeball said:

No it shouldn't, this is a thread about thin-skinned people coming unglued over a native waving a burning bush around an elementary school.

No it's not. It's about thin-skinned people coming unglued because there are those who don't think natives are different.  

[eyeball]

No, they've simply realized that blowing a fairly innocuous local native tradition in a school with a high percentage of local native kids into something that is identical to a planet girdling belief system - a system that just happens to have a history of wiping out local natives - is ridiculous.  

Push the alarm bells when the Nuu Chah Nulth get to the point they're capable of supplanting half the planet's belief systems with theirs.

In the meantime, people should get a grip.

Edited November 29, 2016 by eyeball

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No, they've simply realized that blowing a fairly innocuous local native tradition in a school with a high percentage of local native kids into something that is identical to a planet girdling belief system - a system that just happens to have a history of wiping out local natives - is ridiculous.  

Push the alarm bells when the Nuu Chah Nulth get to the point they're capable of supplanting half the planet's belief systems with theirs.

In the meantime, people should get a grip.

But that's not what happened.  The only fairly innocuous thing so far has been the opening post.  A very reasonable point, I thought.  But the outrage!  How dare anyone show the lack of respect they normally reserve for Christianity to local native traditions?  It was quite surprising in its ferocity!