Why are Liberals negotiating extradition treaty with China?

[TimG]

China is not a great defender of international human rights, granted, but it's also not stupid and would recognize the value of preserving such a treaty.

China would just fabricate a problem by jailing a few Canadians on bogus charges or by banning imports like Canola and then "negotiate" with Canada to ignore its violations in return for removing the artificially created problems.

We should never sign any deals that concede anything to China because they will never be reciprocal. Canada must always reserve the right to ban Chinese TFWs or investments or to refuse to return individuals subject to political persecution under the guise of trumped up charges.

It is worth remembering that China signed the UNCLOS but completely repudiated it when it decided it did not like the fact that UNCLOS restricted what it was allowed to do. It then pressured other countries to be silent about the fact that it ignored a treaty it signed.

If China thinks it can repudiate UNCLOS with no repercussions then why does any sane person believe that a treaty signed with Canada will be anything more than toilet paper to the Chinese?

Edited September 22, 2016 by TimG

[Machjo]

TimG, you hage a point there. Of course Canada has also been criticized for having signed the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights yet still defends the separate school system for example.

Canada could cut a deal with China whereby both sides would agree to conform to that Convention. If China says no, then we say no too, and no deal.

[Smallc]

We should never sign any deals that concede anything to China because they will never be reciprocal. Canada must always reserve the right to ban Chinese TFWs or investments or to refuse to return individuals subject to political persecution under the guise of trumped up charges.

How do you feel about FIPA, then?

[Moonlight Graham]

You don't think anyone will tell the Prime Minister that something important happened?

If I was the PM, I wouldn't watch the news. Why would they?

Why would Trudeau watch the news? He IS the news! If he wants the latest headlines, he doesn't have to look at a TV screen, he can just look into a mirror!...and then pay a professional photographer to capture the moment and post it on Twitter.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Moonlight Graham

[TimG]

How do you feel about FIPA, then?

With China? Opposed to it.

[Smallc]

With China? Opposed to it.

I'm glad you're at least consistent then.

[SpankyMcFarland]

Maybe we could extradite some of those fentanyl manufacturers? Unlikely. I'd say they are too well connected over there.

[eyeball]

Probably too well connected over here too.

[poochy]

So are we going to keep US wars deserters in the country. volunteers, who ran away, but extradite people the Chinese say are criminals? The Chinese who have no real standards of justice? What value is there in this for us?

[cybercoma]

You would think if you wanted to become PM you would take the time to learn what is going on in the world.

You think Prime Ministers find out what's going on in the world by flipping on SUN ​CTV or CBC News?

[cybercoma]

We don't extradite if the death penalty is on the table.

Hell, we wouldn't even extradite a woman to our closest ally because they wanted to imprison her for decades for having consensual sex with a 17 year old.

[Argus]

And we won't extradite them if that's the plan. We don't extradite to the US on death penalty cases. What makes you think we'd do it for China?

Wording that disallows things that we dissalow. The government must uphold the Charter, including with extraditions.

And you seriously think China is going to live up to whatever they sign? We have no way of validating it, after all.

[Argus]

How do you feel about FIPA, then?

Opposed.

[DogOnPorch]

This is the same government that squishes students under tank treads when things don't go their way.

But, I'm sure Trudeau admires Red China for other reasons besides murdering its own population.

[Argus]

Matthew Fisher warns about the Trudeau government's efforts at ingratiating itself with the Chinese, and where that can lead. Will Trudeau now allow more Chinese investment that Harper blocked for example? How far will Trudeau go in sucking up to the Chinese?

As dodgy as the provenance of some of the Chinese money swishing around Canada is, the problem for the government is that Ottawa’s high-minded mantra of justice and fairness for all clashes with the widely held western perception that China’s legal system is rife with corruption, conducts show trials and directs judges to take its side in political vendettas.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/world/matthew+fisher+many+dangers+cozying+beijing/12212294/story.html

[?Impact]

This is the same government that squishes students under tank treads when things don't go their way.

Yes, the comply or die doctrine is alive and well in China. At least they don't seem to discriminate and apply it mostly to their black citizens.

[DogOnPorch]

Yes, the comply or die doctrine is alive and well in China. At least they don't seem to discriminate and apply it mostly to their black citizens.

Red China. What's left of the China of old is on Taiwan.

[Argus]

Now confirmation Trudeau is negotiating a free trade deal with China. This smells like disaster in the offing. A government which sucks up to the Chinese in every conceivable way, and can't bring itself to criticize anything China does, negotiating free trade?

http://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/justin-trudeau-confirms-canada-china-exploring-free-trade-deal

[?Impact]

Now confirmation Trudeau is negotiating a free trade deal with China. This smells like disaster in the offing.

There is nothing wrong with trade, it is the terms that are important. I agree however, the track record of Liberals and Conservatives in this country is terrible in negotiating fair trade.

[eyeball]

So are we going to keep US wars deserters in the country. volunteers, who ran away, but extradite people the Chinese say are criminals?

Jeez, you're still pissed off at draft dodgers?

You hold onto a grudge like it was a religious belief or is it more a case of the grudge having a hold of you?

Edited September 22, 2016 by eyeball

[Argus]

There is nothing wrong with trade, it is the terms that are important. I agree however, the track record of Liberals and Conservatives in this country is terrible in negotiating fair trade.

China has never followed through on any of its commitments. It regards contracts and treaties as something which holds the other guy to its desires but which it can freely break and simply deny doing so. It wants to buy up property and companies around the world, but won't allow anyone to do the same. It wants to export freely but throws endless roadblocks in front of imports except for raw materials. Its government owned corporations steal technology from around the world and work to advance China's government interests.

The shiny pony government is not going to stand up to them, and any treaty they negotiate will be dramatically one-sided.

[eyeball]

Now confirmation Trudeau is negotiating a free trade deal with China. This smells like disaster in the offing. A government which sucks up to the Chinese in every conceivable way, and can't bring itself to criticize anything China does, negotiating free trade?

http://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/justin-trudeau-confirms-canada-china-exploring-free-trade-deal

Our economy has been sucking up to China's for years and years. This container ship sailed decades ago.

[overthere]

Not surprisingly, the only Western democracies that have extradition treaties with China are Spain and Australia.

Spain did the treaty as part, an incidental part, of a much bigger trade agreement whereby China invested heavily in Spanish solar technology and manufacturing. The Chinese subsequently took the technology home, and built their own industry using much cheaper labour. The extradition treaty remains, the Spanish jobs in that sector are gone too because they cannot compete with hina now.

Australia engaged in the treaty with China because they are in the position of having to do what they are told to do by their largest customer by far. Oz is a huge commodity producer, and China matters a great deal to them. Let's speak frankly: Australia doesn't want Asian immigrants much anyway, so if they have to return some to China for execution or kangaroo courts it won't bother them as much as losing for example a gas or coal or iron ore supply contract.

The treaty with Canada is a wee section of the a very similar blueprint played out in Australia. Trudeau, Dion and McKenna will have a very different spin on the matter, but that is where it is going under their watch. I don't think any of them, singularly or collectively, are up to the task of negotiating with China.

[eyeball]

The shiny pony government is not going to stand up to them, and any treaty they negotiate will be dramatically one-sided.

Just like the tarnished old pony's.

[Smallc]

And you seriously think China is going to live up to whatever they sign? We have no way of validating it, after all.

If they break the treaty it's over. That's how treaties work.