Because it's 2016

[poochy]

So I thought we could have a thread where liberal supporters twist themselves into knots reconciling the, it's 2016 mantra, while the author of such attends a house of worship where women are segregated, while at the same time explaining how treating women as lesser beings is in fact a Canadian value in 2016. They are Canadians, and your choice of leader just endorsed it, unless of course he criticized them for that policy while he was there. But then he was just showing respect for their beliefs that just happen to show an inherent disrespect for more than half of the population.

Stake the moral high ground as the feminist PM, require gender equal cabinet, supporters, such as they are, laud him for it, then attends segregated mosque. Imagine if Harper had bought a wedding cake from a place that refused to serve homosexuals..., segregate and treat half of the population as lesser humans, and it's no big deal.

Begin

Or don't, it's not possible to square that circle while being honest.

[eyeball]

So you really meant a Liberal not a liberal.

Honestly, why can't you people tell the difference?

[Smallc]

Equality is protected under the Constitution. So, unfortunately, is religious freedom.

That said, I find it strange that this is the place where conservatives draw the line when it comes to women's rights. Things like wage parity and even sexual assault aren't a big deal, but this.

[Bonam]

Equality is protected under the Constitution. So, unfortunately, is religious freedom.

That said, I find it strange that this is the place where conservatives draw the line when it comes to women's rights. Things like wage parity and even sexual assault aren't a big deal, but this.

Wage disparity isn't an issue of rights but a complex interplay of social and economic factors. Wage parity is not something the government can create by decree since the government does not set wages (other than the minimum wage, which is of course the same for both men and women).

Sexual assault is a crime, a serious crime, and is treated in our justice system as other crimes are and is (and should be) held to the same standard of proof and carries harsh penalties when someone is convicted. What would you propose changing?

Edited September 14, 2016 by Bonam

[Smoke]

Equality is protected under the Constitution. So, unfortunately, is religious freedom.

That said, I find it strange that this is the place where conservatives draw the line when it comes to women's rights. Things like wage parity and even sexual assault aren't a big deal, but this.

Not entirely true. Try throwing a homosexual person from a rooftop in Canada and see how far your religious freedom is protected (for now).

So are you saying conservatives are OK with sexual assault? Totally obtuse.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Smoke

[Boges]

Could he not have gone to a Mosque that didn't treat women that way?

The female MPs with him had to use the side door. SO FEMINIST!!!!

Edited September 14, 2016 by Boges

[Guest]

Begin

Or don't, it's not possible to square that circle while being honest.

Square the circle while being honest? Really?

I am critical of religion in general, though I do defend the freedom of and freedom from religion. As someone that sees belief in the supernatural as an unnecessary and an overall negative factor in society, I support efforts to both reduce religious participation and reform religious practices. Misogyny is misogyny regardless of the source and we should steadily work to stamp it out. What bothers me here is that while attempting to label Liberals as hypocrites, you are completely ignorant of your own blatant hypocrisy on this issue.

For example, would you blast the PM for visiting a Catholic church since they do not permit women priests? Would you blast the PM for meeting with Evangelical Christians as they teach women to be subservient to their husbands?

I support JT for the gender parity in his cabinet but criticized the fact that the Liberals only put forth 31% female candidates, while the NDP managed to achieve 43%. Would you criticize the CPC for the fact that less than 20% of their candidates were female? Rural ridings are extremely male dominated, would you criticize a PM for visiting a small town?

It seems to me that those most likely to criticize anything to do with Islam are also more likely to support Donald Trump; a guy with a whole host of disgusting traits and positions, one of which is the fact that he is a misogynistic a-hole. Those who identify as conservatives also tend to be those who want to limit access to birth control, oppose abortion, lower the bar on sexual harassment standards and deny the existence of glass ceilings.

Ask yourself why Islamic misogyny bothers you, when you are comfortable overlooking and even supporting it in so many other areas.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Guest

[Boges]

Sweet deflection. I'm sure women aren't allowed to be Imams either. The comparison to the Catholic church here isn't an apt comparison.

JT shouldn't affirm this type of behaviour if he want to prop himself up as such a feminist.

[Guest]

Sweet deflection. I'm sure women aren't allowed to be Imams either. The comparison to the Catholic church here isn't an apt comparison.

JT shouldn't affirm this type of behaviour if he want to prop himself up as such a feminist.

Ah, so misogyny is acceptable as long as there are worse examples?

JT, is not propping up Islamic misogyny at all. A PM should lead by example; which, JT has been doing by naming a 50% female cabinet and supporting equality. A PM should never completely blackball an entire community as it prevents any chance of influence. For example, does trading with China or Columbia mean Canada affirms their human rights record? Of course not. Would Canada have any chance to influence a nation it has cut ties with? No.

I am a liberal (small L) and I have a problem with misogyny regardless of the source. Conservatives tend to support misogynistic policies, yet claim to be outraged by the Islamic variety. Notice that the only defence you offered here is yeah, but their misogyny is worse than our misogyny. So who is being hypocritical on this issue?

Edited September 14, 2016 by Guest

[Boges]

Ah, so misogyny is acceptable as long as there are worse examples?

JT, is not propping up Islamic misogyny at all. A PM should lead by example; which, JT has been doing by naming a 50% female cabinet and supporting equality. A PM should never completely blackball an entire community as it prevents any chance of influence. For example, does trading with China or Columbia mean Canada affirms their human rights record? Of course not. Would Canada have any chance to influence a nation it has cut ties with? No.

I am a liberal (small L) and I have a problem with misogyny regardless of the source. Conservatives tend to support misogynistic policies, yet claim to be outraged by the Islamic variety. Notice that the only defence you offered here is yeah, but their misogyny is worse than our misogyny. So who is being hypocritical on this issue?

I'm not supporting misogyny. But you can't just placate a particularly egregious form of it because it exists elsewhere. Well you can but I'm going to judge it as political pandering and hypocrisy.

He forces a 50% cabinet but then has female MPs go through the side door at this meeting.

The Mosque also has some links to terror organizations.

He could have found a more inclusive Mosque or one that doesn't have dodgy links. Why do you always go to the "blackballing an entire community". No one here is doing that.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Boges

[DogOnPorch]

Could he not have gone to a Mosque that didn't treat women that way?

The female MPs with him had to use the side door. SO FEMINIST!!!!

A 'moderate' mosque?

One not connected to terrorism?

One that treats women as equals?

One that allows gay folks to worship?

Where is one?

[Guest]

I'm not supporting misogyny. But you can't just placate a particularly egregious form of it because it exists elsewhere. Well you can but I'm going to judge it as political pandering and hypocrisy.

I'm not making excuses for Islamic misogyny, nor is the PM. You and the OP however, are placating the misogyny that "exists elsewhere." That is hypocritical.

He forces a 50% cabinet but then has female MPs go through the side door at this meeting.

As is the custom of this mosque. In my opinion, having females in positions of power attend, even if by the side door, is a good example. It would have been a cop out to only bring male MPs, which was likely requested by the Mosque.

[msj]

Looking through the pictures on his Twitter feed I see women present (and covered up).

Meh, whatever.

Who knows how it really went down.

I'm sure politicians have been in churches that have treated gays horribly too.

Meh, whatever.

[Boges]

As is the custom of this mosque. In my opinion, having females in positions of power attend, even if by the side door, is a good example. It would have been a cop out to only bring male MPs, which was likely requested by the Mosque.

Then he should have demanded they not have been segregated. Or would that have been intolerant?

[DogOnPorch]

This mosque is one of Yusuf al-Qaradawi's.

Do you folks even know who he is? Do you know what he has SAID?

For example: On Jews....

"Throughout history, Allah has imposed upon the Jews people who would punish them for their corruption ... The last punishment was carried out by Hitler. By means of all the things he did to them – even though they exaggerated this issue – he managed to put them in their place. This was divine punishment for them.... Allah Willing, the next time will be at the hand of the believers."

And a "meh" from JT supporters.

Edited September 14, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[dialamah]

I'm not supporting misogyny. But you can't just placate a particularly egregious form of it because it exists elsewhere. Well you can but I'm going to judge it as political pandering and hypocrisy.

He forces a 50% cabinet but then has female MPs go through the side door at this meeting.

The Mosque also has some links to terror organizations.

He could have found a more inclusive Mosque or one that doesn't have dodgy links. Why do you always go to the "blackballing an entire community". No one here is doing that.

*Forces* a 50% cabinet? You just lost your claim of support for gender equality.

[msj]

People say crappy things all the time. If it fits n with our hate laws then go after him.

I doubt Trudeau agrees with him.

I doubt Trudeau believes in Allah or Mohammed. In fact, I doubt he believes in the Virgin Mary and Jesus.

That's good enough for me.

You guys are the same as the people who didn't want Nixon to talk to the Chinese and improve relations with China.

Well, sometimes you have to open up relations with other groups of people and sometimes that means going to their house and being respectful even if you think their religious tenants are a bunch of bull.

So, yeah, meh.

[DogOnPorch]

Typical sermon line at one of his mosques:

O Allah, take your enemies, the enemies of Islam. O Allah, take the Jews, the treacherous aggressors. O Allah, take this profligate, cunning, arrogant band of people. O Allah, they have spread much tyranny and corruption in the land. Pour Your wrath upon them, O our God. Lie in wait for them. O Allah, You annihilated the people of Thamoud (An early pagan Arab tribe) with an overpowering blast, and You annihilated the people of 'Aad with a fierce, icy gale, and You destroyed the pharaoh [of Exodus] and his soldiers – O Allah, take this oppressive, tyrannical band of people. O Allah, take this oppressive, Jewish Zionist band of people. O Allah, do not spare a single one of them. O Allah, count their numbers, and kill them, down to the very last one.

[msj]

Oh, and I didn't vote for the Liberals in the last election so don't call me a Liberal supporter.

[Boges]

*Forces* a 50% cabinet? You just lost your claim of support for gender equality.

Is that not what he did? Picked MPs with less qualification because they're women. To have gender equality, does the system have to be jerry rigged to ensure it? No woman is being told they can't run for office. It's just more common, currently, that men do it.

Thread drift however.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Boges

[DogOnPorch]

Oh, and I didn't vote for the Liberals in the last election so don't call me a Liberal supporter.

Fine...mosque supporter. My bad.

[msj]

Typical sermon line at one of his mosques:

We could go into any church and cherry pick bad sermons.

In fact, I recommend you follow the Friendly Atheist as he tends to have a few up each month.

People have a right to say this stuff and a right to hear it.

By visiting a church or mosque a person is not necessarily agreeing with the beliefs or teachings of it.

[Boges]

We could go into any church and cherry pick bad sermons.

In fact, I recommend you follow the Friendly Atheist as he tends to have a few up each month.

People have a right to say this stuff and a right to hear it.

By visiting a church or mosque a person is not necessarily agreeing with the beliefs or teachings of it.

Would JT go to a church that preaches similar things as say the WBC? Would we support it?

[msj]

Fine...mosque supporter. My bad.

So you don't think people have a problem right to assemble in a church or mosque?

Sure, take away the charitable status, tax breaks for living allowances for clergy and such, and property tax breaks but I'm okay with people sharing their religious beliefs in this way even though I think their beliefs are stupid.

[DogOnPorch]

We could go into any church and cherry pick bad sermons.

In fact, I recommend you follow the Friendly Atheist as he tends to have a few up each month.

People have a right to say this stuff and a right to hear it.

By visiting a church or mosque a person is not necessarily agreeing with the beliefs or teachings of it.

I can go to church...anywhere...and listen to the pastor/priest rail-on about murdering all the Jews?

Where?

So you don't think people have a problem right to assemble in a church or mosque?

Sure, take away the charitable status, tax breaks for living allowances for clergy and such, and property tax breaks but I'm okay with people sharing their religious beliefs in this way even though I think their beliefs are stupid.

Not if it's Himmler's church.