Because it's 2016

[msj]

When is JT visiting that church?

Maybe if he finds one in Canada then he may pay a visit.

Will that mean he has converted from Islam to crazy Orthodox Christianity?

If he then goes and visits a synagogue does that mean he will have converted to crazy Orthodox Judaism?

Where ever he goes so goes his condoning of religious belief and approval of "their" behaviour I suppose.

Edited September 14, 2016 by msj

[msj]

Daily you're proving you're the enemy.

Yes, because I believe people have a right to believe in stupid things so long as they do no behave in stupid ways (and that is when criminal justice system can step in).

And our PM has a right to visit stupid people and tries to talk up the similarities between "them" and "us" although those strain credibility at times.

I support our Constitution and think it is better to extend a hand to communities rather than make it between "us" and "them."

[DogOnPorch]

Yes, because I believe people have a right to believe in stupid things so long as they do no behave in stupid ways (and that is when criminal justice system can step in).

And our PM has a right to visit stupid people and tries to talk up the similarities between "them" and "us" although those strain credibility at times.

I support our Constitution and think it is better to extend a hand to communities rather than make it between "us" and "them."

You're support for Imam al-Qawadawi is admirable...I guess.

[Argus]

For example, would you blast the PM for visiting a Catholic church since they do not permit women priests? Would you blast the PM for meeting with Evangelical Christians as they teach women to be subservient to their husbands?

You miss the point - deliberately. Churches don't segregate people by gender, nor do they demand that the genders be segregated in life, with no social interaction outside of family. Segregation was the most obvious sign of the racism directed against Blacks in the US, and segregation is also the most obvious sign of the misogyny the Islamic world believes in. And it's not getting better, it's getting worse. Decades ago, half the mosques in Canada were segregated, now two thirds are.

Trudeau could have addressed this by attending one of the mosques where there is no segregation, and praising them. Instead he visited a mosque which is segregated, and praised THEM.

[Argus]

I think change will come sort of like the quiet revolution in Quebec in the 1960's.

One day mosques will find that the young are not coming because they have embraced secular values.

Even those who do show up will be more secular than the previous generation.

Nice fantasy! But the facts say otherwise. The facts say Muslims in Canada are becoming more observant and more conservative in their religious beliefs. Women are more and more likely to wear hijabs and burkas and mosques are more and more likely to be segregated.

[DogOnPorch]

Trudeau could have addressed this by attending one of the mosques where there is no segregation, and praising them. Instead he visited a mosque which is segregated, and praised THEM.

Or going into that hate mosque, tearing them a new one and then handing most deportation papers for inciting hatred against Jews.

Edited September 14, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[msj]

You're support for Imam al-Qawadawi is admirable...I guess.

Nice straw man.

[Argus]

Canadian women were only permitted to vote 100 years ago, or less depending on the province.

You cling doggedly to how in our past the culture was so much more barbaric than it is now. It was. But it's not now.

I suppose by doing this you imply Islam will, in 100 years, be much more enlightened, but there's no evidence it is going in that direction. Ultra Orthodox Jews have not become more enlightened over the past fifty years either, nor are they likely to over the next 50.

And what will persuade Islam to become more liberal? Progressive who fall all over themselves to never criticize and to protect even the most primitive social beliefs from criticism from others, or the rest of us for making it clear how primitive and backwards we think these types of behaviour are?

[msj]

Nice fantasy! But the facts say otherwise. The facts say Muslims in Canada are becoming more observant and more conservative in their religious beliefs. Women are more and more likely to wear hijabs and burkas and mosques are more and more likely to be segregated.

Oh, then I guess you will point me to those citations supporting those facts?

[Argus]

Bringing powerful females into a more moderate community makes less of a statement or example. Fundamentalist type communities can only thrive when blinders are put on the worldview of their youth. The more glimpses of modern, strong Canadian women or examples of men who treat women as equals, that youth being raised in fundamentalist religious communities can see, the better.

LOL. Bring powerful females into a mosque and make them stand their silently with their heads covered? That's going to set an example!?

A prime minister who refused to attend a segregated mosque would have had a hell of a lot more impact.

[DogOnPorch]

Nice straw man.

Yet here you are...defending segregation and antisemitism.

[Argus]

Another tedious Muslims bad Christians good thread.

Nobody says you have to read and post on it. You can go back to the six hundred topics you've started on how evil "Zionists" are.

[Argus]

Here is a leadership, parenting, teaching and coaching tip, you can't change minds by force.

Clearly you are neither a leader, nor parent, nor teacher nor coach.

[msj]

Yet here you are...defending segregation and antisemitism.

Nope, I am defending a person's right to believe in stupid ideas even when I disagree with them.

I am defending a PM's right to visit a Mosque as a means to create relationships with a community where we need to build relationships even though there are fundamental differences.

That's it, really.

[Argus]

Your argument is spot on here; which, is why defenders of the OP have already dropped the misogyny angle and moved on to other attacks. This thread is already useless and the conversation can be moved back to one of the other Islam is bad threads.

Or you two could just move to one of his six hundred "Zionists are evil" topics where you can trade slurs against Je...Zionists all day long.

[Argus]

Yes, because there are not already a nauseating amount of threads criticizing Islam on this forum now.

And so many people "defending" Islam too!

Yes, defending the behaviour, be it violence, brutality, bigotry and misogyny.

Trudeau going to a segregated mosque and praising them, saying their values were ours, was outright defending misogyny, as you are doing here.

[Argus]

This guy for one: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/category/steven-anderson/

A crank. Again, for every guy like him there are ten thousand immams excoriating Jews and anyone who dares to criticize Islam.

His influence is virtually nill. Theirs is a hell of a lot greater.

[Argus]

Oh, then I guess you will point me to those citations supporting those facts?

Women and girls were in a balcony or in other parts of the mosque. Nomani said that recent surveys indicate about two of every three mosques separate men from women, but that is up from a decade ago when only about half did.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/national/98feminist+under+attack+attending+gender+segregated+event+ottawa/12191121/story.html

WOMEN WHO WEAR A HIJAB, CHADOR OR NIQAB IN PUBLIC

2006 - 42%

2016 - 53%

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/04/27/canadian-muslims-becoming-more-religious-survey-shows

Edited September 14, 2016 by Argus

[Argus]

I am defending a PM's right to visit a Mosque as a means to create relationships with a community where we need to build relationships even though there are fundamental differences.

Would you defend him if he went to a church which segregated people by race? If all the Blacks were up in a balcony or in the basement and not allowed on the main floor with the Whites? Would you defend him if he visited such a place, offered no criticism, and told them their values were our values?

[DogOnPorch]

Nope, I am defending a person's right to believe in stupid ideas even when I disagree with them.

I am defending a PM's right to visit a Mosque as a means to create relationships with a community where we need to build relationships even though there are fundamental differences.

That's it, really.

You're free to support and defend our PM's antisemitism and misogyny, if that's the case. Either he knew what went on there or he's the stupidest leader we ever had.

Which?

Edited September 14, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[cybercoma]

Nice straw man.

It's the old, if you're not with us, you're with the pedophiles argument again, ignoring what people actually say and attributing things to them that they don't support. It's the height of intellectual dishonesty. I'm going to assume it's intentional because DOP constantly grandstands about how rational and intelligent he is. So he can't possibly just be too ignorant to see that his claim "if you're not X, then you're Y" is a logical fallacy when X and Y are not mutually exclusive and universally exhaustive. He will be among any minute to point out how talking about his logical fallacies and inconsistencies means he's right and you've got nothing to contribute though, another logical fallacy btw.

[DogOnPorch]

Your Dear Leader visited the mosque of a man who has stated publicly that Muslims should murder all the Jews. You excuse it.

[msj]

You're free to support and defend our PM's antisemitism and misogyny, if that's the case. Either he knew what went on there or he's the stupidest leader we ever had.

Which?

I don't think he supports their beliefs such as killing Jews. I also don't think he supports segregation of men and women.

Do you?

I think he had a goal of trying to "build bridges" and focus on similarities between their community and the ROC as a means to get buy in to work towards common goals - for Muslims those goals are to have people allow them to practice their religious freedoms.

For me it is for them to practice their religion to the extent that it does not violate secular law.

I guess Trudeau would likely agree with me - along with many other Canadians.

Sure, he, like Michael Hardner on this very forum, takes religious freedom too far, imo.

But meh, that's a difference of opinion.

[DogOnPorch]

Excuses, excuses.

[msj]

Yes, defending the behaviour, be it violence, brutality, bigotry and misogyny.

Trudeau going to a segregated mosque and praising them, saying their values were ours, was outright defending misogyny, as you are doing here.

Nope.

Some of us realize that the world is complicated and sometimes it makes sense to call people's ideas deplorable and sometimes it makes more sense to focus on similarities to bring people together.

I think Trudeau was trying to do that.

Should women be segregated? No.

Is it allowed in certain conditions usually involving "freedom of religion" bigotry? Yes.

Will it help if we were to force Mosques to not do this and force Christian Churches to allow for women priests, etc etc? Probably not.