Because it's 2016

[DogOnPorch]

Condemn Trudeau. Condemn the mosque.

Excuses, excuses...

[cybercoma]

Your Dear Leader visited the mosque of a man who has stated publicly that Muslims should murder all the Jews. You excuse it.

My "Dear Leader"? He's not MY leader. I am not a Liberal. Even if I was I would be completely irrelevant.

More importantly, your characterization of anything or anyone religious is not to be trusted, since you claimed a donation to the UN to build schools for girls in Gaza, a cause meant to undermine patriarchal oppression there, is funding a terrorist organization. You've demonstrated that you're willing to lie in order to criticize Muslims, even though there's countless real problems you could point to. Pro tip: Halal certification isn't one of them.

[DogOnPorch]

My "Dear Leader"? He's not MY leader. I am not a Liberal. Even if I was I would be completely irrelevant.

More importantly, your characterization of anything or anyone religious is not to be trusted, since you claimed a donation to the UN to build schools for girls in Gaza, a cause meant to undermine patriarchal oppression there, is funding a terrorist organization. You've demonstrated that you're willing to lie in order to criticize Muslims, even though there's countless real problems you could point to. Pro tip: Halal certification isn't one of them.

Funny...nobody voted for the guy, now.

[msj]

Women and girls were in a balcony or in other parts of the mosque. Nomani said that recent surveys indicate about two of every three mosques separate men from women, but that is up from a decade ago when only about half did.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/national/98feminist+under+attack+attending+gender+segregated+event+ottawa/12191121/story.html

WOMEN WHO WEAR A HIJAB, CHADOR OR NIQAB IN PUBLIC

2006 - 42%

2016 - 53%

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/04/27/canadian-muslims-becoming-more-religious-survey-shows

That's all you got?

Really?

Maybe some real source rather than someone's memory, no?

As for wearing religous garb - I think if Quebec and Harper and the media would not make such a big deal out of it then there would likely have been little to no change.

It is like banning a book - once you bring attention to it more people want to read it.

Well, try banning religious garb and you find that more practitioners all of a sudden want to wear it even if they haven't before.

This is basic human psychology here.

[cybercoma]

I didn't. You can go back and check that but again it's completely irrelevant.

[DogOnPorch]

You defend Islam now which is what matters.

[msj]

My "Dear Leader"? He's not MY leader. I am not a Liberal. Even if I was I would be completely irrelevant.

Well he is our Prime Minister whether we voted for him or not (for which only the people in his riding are capable of doing) or whether we agree with him or not.

Life is complicated - I agree with Trudeau on some things and not on others. Just like Harper, Martin, Chretien, Mulroney etc....

I suspect most of us are the same.

[msj]

You defend Islam now which is what matters.

We are not defending Islam.

We are defending people's right to believe in stupid ideas which is protected under our Constitution.

[cybercoma]

Well he is our Prime Minister whether we voted for him or not (for which only the people in his riding are capable of doing) or whether we agree with him or not.

Life is complicated - I agree with Trudeau on some things and not on others. Just like Harper, Martin, Chretien, Mulroney etc....

I suspect most of us are the same.

He's not MY leader. He's the leader of the Liberal Party and cabinet. The head of state is the Queen. She's my leader if anyone.

[Argus]

That's all you got? Really? Maybe some real source rather than someone's memory, no?

Uhm.. You asked for cites about the increasing number of mosques in Canada segregating women, and that women are wearing the hijab more often. I provided you with cites which both speak of surveys taken. And you've got NOTHING to counter that with.

An honest person would simply admit that, okay, this is happening.

As for wearing religous garb - I think if Quebec and Harper and the media would not make such a big deal out of it then there would likely have been little to no change.

Ah, I see! You've found a way, in your mind, to say it's all our fault! Good job!

Of course, the fact that this is part of a general world-wide movement that has seen hijabs and burkas worn more and more often all across the western and Muslim world, well, that has to be ignored as irrelevant, right?

This is basic human psychology here.

Here is basic human psychology. If all their scholars say that the genders must be segregated at all times, and nobody is pointing out how stupid this is, but instead, demonstrating that we approve of it, then how is it ever going to change?

Did segregation in the US end simply because everyone was being non-judgmental and smiling benignly towards segregationists? I don't think so.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Argus

[DogOnPorch]

Nobody voted for JT here at MLW...now.

Edited September 14, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[msj]

Would you defend him if he went to a church which segregated people by race? If all the Blacks were up in a balcony or in the basement and not allowed on the main floor with the Whites? Would you defend him if he visited such a place, offered no criticism, and told them their values were our values?

If I saw pictures of him on his Twitter stream talking to members of the church while standing with black people (just like the pictures of him with women at the Mosque) then I would say: good for him.

He is making a point by attending, respecting their stupid beliefs in a polite manner, while also bringing women who have positions of power with him.

It is subtle which is the point.

It says: we share certain things but there are also differences.

[msj]

He's not MY leader. He's the leader of the Liberal Party and cabinet. The head of state is the Queen. She's my leader if anyone.

Oh, ok, I forgot about the Queen. I'm no fan of her so we will agree to disagree here.

[Argus]

We are not defending Islam.

We are defending people's right to believe in stupid ideas which is protected under our Constitution.

Would you have defended segregation between Blacks and Whites? Or would you have attacked it?

[DogOnPorch]

If I saw pictures of him on his Twitter stream talking to members of the church while standing with black people (just like the pictures of him with women at the Mosque) then I would say: good for him.

He is making a point by attending, respecting their stupid beliefs in a polite manner, while also bringing women who have positions of power with him.

It is subtle which is the point.

It says: we share certain things but there are also differences.

Stupid beliefs like murdering all the Jews? How is a Canadian of Jewish heritage supposed to take that wee gem from the Dear Leader?

[cybercoma]

Nobody voted for JT here at MLW...now.

I didn't vote for him; therefore, the hundreds of users in this forum didn't vote for him.

I didn't vote for him because I don't live in his riding.

I assume what you mean is voting for Liberal candidates. I didn't do that either. In fact, I have never in my life voted Liberal. But...AGAIN....it's irrelevant.

[DogOnPorch]

I didn't vote for him; therefore, the hundreds of users in this forum didn't vote for him.

I didn't vote for him because I don't live in his riding.

I assume what you mean is voting for Liberal candidates. I didn't do that either. In fact, I have never in my life voted Liberal. But...AGAIN....it's irrelevant.

I said: nobody voted for JT here at MLW...now.

That means you too.

Edited September 14, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[cybercoma]

Stupid beliefs like murdering all the Jews? How is a Canadian of Jewish heritage supposed to take that wee gem from the Dear Leader?

Stupid beliefs like implying the Prime Mnister supports murdering Jews. You're entitled to that one too.

[msj]

Uhm.. You asked for cites about the increasing number of mosques in Canada segregating women, and that women are wearing the hijab more often. I provided you with cites which both speak of surveys taken. And you've got NOTHING to counter that with.

An honest person would simply admit that, okay, this is happening.

When I ask for a cite I expect a certain quality to it.

Yours was lacking, to say the least.

[DogOnPorch]

Stupid beliefs like implying the Prime Mnister supports murdering Jews. You're entitled to that one too.

So he's just stupid, is what you're saying. JT is stupider than a bag of hammers and so is his entire government. How were they to know those Muslims want to murder all the Jews?

[msj]

Would you have defended segregation between Blacks and Whites? Or would you have attacked it?

What a strange question.

Of course I disagree with segregation of all kinds.

However, I also realize that religious freedom allows for certain things as disgusting as they are.

Should the State impose gender equality on religious institutions?

Sure, why not - if they want to avoid paying income tax, property tax and would like to receive any kind of government funding then yes, by all means go ahead.

Good luck with the Supreme Court challenges etc... which is likely why this issue has yet to reach a head.

[cybercoma]

Stupid beliefs like murdering all the Jews? How is a Canadian of Jewish heritage supposed to take that wee gem from the Dear Leader?

You know Justin Trudeau's riding had a large Jewish population, right? He won a 10 person race with a majority of the votes (52%). Feel free to ask the Jewish people in Montreal how he's doing.

[DogOnPorch]

You know Justin Trudeau's riding had a large Jewish population, right? He won a 10 person race with a majority of the votes (52%). Feel free to ask the Jewish people in Montreal how he's doing.

And here JT is at a mosque that wants them all DEAD...claiming they share Canadian values.

[msj]

So he's just stupid, is what you're saying. JT is stupider than a bag of hammers and so is his entire government. How were they to know those Muslims want to murder all the Jews?

How does anyone know who among the Muslims present want to murder all Jews?

Just because some crazy guy says something does not mean everyone within ear shot is going to support him and agree with him.

[Boges]

Should the State impose gender equality on religious institutions?

This type of hyperbole is a straw man. Though some could say the views of said Mosque's leaders could violate hate speech laws, no one is saying they don't have the right to segregate men and women.

What I'm saying is that a PM shouldn't be going around affirming churches that implement those practices. ESPECIALLY when he's trademarked the feminist PM moniker.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Boges