Should Canada screen potential immigrants/refugees for Canadian Values

[eyeball]

10 days later, and the few in this forum cannot agree on Canadian values.

And there it is, the quintessential Canadian value.

[Guest]

And there it is, the quintessential Canadian value.

That and a double double.

[eyeball]

Over a double double.

[Guest]

Over a double double.

Well, I don't take sugar or cream, but I imagine it's not difficult to get over a double double.

[The_Squid]

Jason Kenney slaps down this policy proposal....

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/09/09/jason-kenney-dismisses-leitchs-anti-canadian-values-screening-proposal-for-immigrants.html

Following a speech in downtown Calgary on Friday, Kenney, who is seeking the Alberta Progressive Conservative leadership, said he believes Leitch is pursuing an “improvised position” without understanding the negative impact of her words.

“I don’t take her position seriously, she’s never articulated it before,” Kenney said.

“She’s never said a word about this in Parliament, caucus or cabinet. I don’t think she understands the nuance around these issues. You have to be very careful in the way you articulate questions about integration.”

[eyeball]

Well, I don't take sugar or cream, but I imagine it's not difficult to get over a double double.

I disagree.

[cybercoma]

After some thought have concluded that screening for 'Canadian Values' is too subjective and depends too much whoever is given the power to write the test.I would rather see a test of Canadian Law wrt hate speech, equal rights, sexual assault. i.e. applicants should be forced to memorize material on Canadian law and then identify illegal acts in a multiple choice test (the questions would be designed to trip people up from cultures without the same attitudes towards equality). Those that fail to learn enough of the law don't get in. Re-tests are permissible since we don't care that someone is a slow learner - just that they learn.

The majority of Canadians couldn't pass the citizenship test and you want to make simple immigration to include memorization of legal jargon?

[TimG]

The majority of Canadians couldn't pass the citizenship test and you want to make simple immigration to include memorization of legal jargon?

An maybe Canadians do need to be taught the same thing. We could make it a requirement for high school graduation too.

Expecting people to understand the laws of the country they are coming to is a perfectly reasonable thing. More importantly, it is relatively objective since we have actual court cases to use as a basis for creating scenarios. Also the tests do not have to be written using legal jargon. As far as memorization: that is actually the point. If they have to memorize concepts so they can pass the test then there is a high probability that they learn the elements of Canadian law which they may not be familiar with.

A more relevant question: why are you so desperate to let people into this country without any attempt to educate them? Would you rather see people break laws because no one told them what the laws are?

Edited September 13, 2016 by TimG

[BC_chick]

Again, you're setting YOUR values as Canadian values, and that just isn't true. A progressive simply discounts it when 30%-40%-50% of Canadians don't share their views. They like to pretend such people don't exist and their opinions simply don't matter.

Like the 67% who want us to test for values. To the progressives here, none of them matter. They're not important. Their views don't count.

Well no, I'm saying the Conservatives values are just a watered down version of the values they want to ban from entering the country.

[BC_chick]

Who fought SSM? Who is fighting transgender rights? Who cries about the war on Christmas? Who thinks the pinnacle of humanity was the 50's and 60's (during a time when women didn't work and you could kick around people who looked different)? Who blames women for 'their personal responsibility' when they get drunk and raped? Heck, who were all the ones yesterday saying WWII 'jubilance' makes it ok to grab random women and kiss them on the mouth? Who chastises single mothers?

Not that all conservatives believe these things, but of the people who do... you're safe to bet they're voting Blue.

Edited September 13, 2016 by BC_chick

[Smallc]

Yeah, but don't you understand? None of those have ANYTHING to do with REAL Canadian values. Your values are not Canadian values, and all that.

[TimG]

Yeah, but don't you understand? None of those have ANYTHING to do with REAL Canadian values. Your values are not Canadian values, and all that.

Which is why I say forget about talking about values and talk about laws instead.

Much more objective and much more practical.

Edited September 13, 2016 by TimG

[BC_chick]

Smallc, no apparently I don't understand. Let' me see if I got this straight:

- Political ideology and Canadian Values are two different things

- Progressive views are not Canadian values

- Conservative views are also not Canadian values

- Kellie Leitch and the majority of Canadians want to keep Un-Canadian values out of Canada

- In defining 'Un Canadian values', the examples they provide are somewhat (hyper) conservative values - as per my previous half dozen examples

- Noticing this oddity means I think Progressive values are Canadian values even though progressive values are the ones they're naming as the benchmark for allowing people in.

Did I get that right? My head is spinning.

Edited September 13, 2016 by BC_chick

[Smallc]

Hey, your guess is as good as mine. I think we should make sure they aren't criminals.

[bush_cheney2004]

Neil Macdonald (CBC) questions the notion of "Canadian values".....

Pity. It's a discussion worth having, and it's remarkable how quickly it becomes a reductionist exercise, because there are precious few notions that can accurately be described as universally held Canadian values or principles, no matter what our politicians tell us.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, for example, seems to have an endless list of what he likes to call "core Canadian values" (as opposed, presumably, to non-core ones). Most are mushy and ill-defined.

Mutual respect is one of his favorites. Tolerance is another. He once named freedom as the supreme Canadian value. His health minister recently named a negative: not being able to buy your way to the front of a waiting list for health care.

...A better place to go looking for Canadian values, you'd think, is in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the centrepiece of our basic law. But that modern legal document begins, jarringly, with this sentence:

"Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/neil-macdonald-kellie-leitch-values-survey-1.3759075

Edited September 13, 2016 by bush_cheney2004

[jacee]

After some thought have concluded that screening for 'Canadian Values' is too subjective and depends too much whoever is given the power to write the test.

I would rather see a test of Canadian Law wrt hate speech, equal rights, sexual assault. i.e. applicants should be forced to memorize material on Canadian law and then identify illegal acts in a multiple choice test (the questions would be designed to trip people up from cultures without the same attitudes towards equality). Those that fail to learn enough of the law don't get in. Re-tests are permissible since we don't care that someone is a slow learner - just that they learn.

Learn ... to give the desired answers.

I still think politicians should be given 'the test'.

[jacee]

Here are a few values which the main bulk of Canadians ascribe to. It's not an exhaustive list, just some I jotted down. People might quibble about the limits of support in this or that case but they still support almost all of them.

Fundamental justice, fairness and compromise, respect for individuality (within limits), helping those who need help, an open society which treats everyone equally, regardless of wealth, race, religion or politics, secularism and self-reliance, social mobility, non-violence, the rule of law.

Mhm.

How do you 'test' for those vague concepts?

[DogOnPorch]

You have a lot of valid points regarding Islam but I don't think you're gonna convince anyone with the Halal thing. I'd switch tacks if I were you.

It's a fact. I'm not here to convince the inconvincible. But, you're aware of Halal Certification now, eh?

The rest will be content paying their tax to Islam.

[DogOnPorch]

Plus it's fun to virtually beat the living crap out of them daily.

[Smoke]

There are a couple of "far left" posts above ridiculing the idea of screening for Canadian values, yet 67 to 74 percent of Canadians (depending on which of the two major polls are used) disagree with you. Disagree! That includes conservatives, liberals and NDPers.

[DogOnPorch]

Learn ... to give the desired answers.

I still think politicians should be given 'the test'.

Indeed. Like where's Latvia on the map?

[dialamah]

There are a couple of "far left" posts above ridiculing the idea of screening for Canadian values, yet 67 to 74 percent of Canadians (depending on which of the two major polls are used) disagree with you. Disagree! That includes conservatives, liberals and NDPers.

Well, you know it's a 'feel good' concept. Screen for Canadian Values! Yay, Canada! Yay Safety! Yes, I agree!

And then the thorny questions start - how do you do that effectively? What exactly are "Canadian Values"? That's where polls don't go far enough, eh? "Here's an easy question, answer yes or no, no further thought required".

Avaaz does that all the time "Do you want to save the bees? They need saving now! Sign here!". Easy, feel-good, no thought required. And also pretty easy to demonize those who don't sign - what's the matter with them? Don't they want to save the bees?

Edited September 13, 2016 by dialamah

[DogOnPorch]

Screw Canadian values and the angels dancing atop it.

It's Western Values we're trying to preserve.

[jacee]

Screw Canadian values and the angels dancing atop it.

It's Western Values we're trying to preserve.

Ah yes ... good ole greed and corruption!

.

[Big Guy]

I think that "screening" is a great idea! The USA border guards decided to screen Canadians on values that were not American values. They did manage to catch a few who admitted that they had smoked marijuana - and sent them back. This process guaranteed that only Canadians smart enough to lie would be allowed into their country.

The same would prove true about screening for these "potential" terrorists. We would only admit smart potential terrorists who knew enough to lie to incriminating questions. The stupid ones would be rejected at the border.

I am not sure I like that. I would rather that the dumb potential terrorists be let in. They would be easier to catch. The smart would do more damage.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Big Guy