betsy Posted July 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 (edited) How long does the 'transformation' usually last? . I suppose someone who's made the decision and the effort to be celibate, would be like someone who's made the decision to quit an addiction - some can fall off the wagon. How would it be for a married person who's fallen in love with someone else (and has had an affair), and broken up the relationship in order to save her marriage - some do rekindle the affair. No one suggests that it's an easy thing to do. It's not easy for gays who'd made vows to be celibate (so as to not offend God).....the same way that it's not easy for men who entered into priesthood, or women who became nuns. But, some make it. Clinging to God makes it easier to bear. It's not easy to resist temptation. We all face temptation all the time. And you bet, the devil knows which buttons to push. Edited July 5, 2016 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted July 5, 2016 Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 What does Betsy have to do with Big Guy realizing that he's out of his depth on this subject? Agreed, Big Guy deals in reality and not in the murky waters of supposition and self serving assumptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted July 5, 2016 Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 Agreed, Big Guy deals in reality and not in the murky waters of supposition and self serving assumptions. Still waiting for Big Guy to even VISIT reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted July 5, 2016 Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 Still waiting for Big Guy to even VISIT reality. You claim to know how people feel. Do you have some strange and wonderful gift that gives you the ability to separate what you think that people feel, what people say and what their true feelings are. If you do, please share it with the rest of the world. I would also appreciate you then translating what posters are saying on this site to what they really feel. Please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash74 Posted July 5, 2016 Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 I suppose someone who's made the decision and the effort to be celibate, would be like someone who's made the decision to quit an addiction - some can fall off the wagon. How would it be for a married person who's fallen in love with someone else (and has had an affair), and broken up the relationship in order to save her marriage - some do rekindle the affair. No one suggests that it's an easy thing to do. It's not easy for gays who'd made vows to be celibate (so as to not offend God).....the same way that it's not easy for men who entered into priesthood, or women who became nuns. But, some make it. Clinging to God makes it easier to bear. It's not easy to resist temptation. We all face temptation all the time. And you bet, the devil knows which buttons to push. Why be celibate? It is after all only sex. That ridiculous concept of saving yourself for marriage is a terrible notion. If you don't get along in the bedroom you ain't gonna get along many other ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 (edited) A lot of gays......were simply confused of their sexuality, and thought themselves to be gay. So they went through the motion of being gay. No, a lot of people are simply confused about their sexuality. When they figure it out, that's when they become gay or straight. Figuring it out isn't a transformation. Edited July 6, 2016 by bcsapper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 I suppose someone who's made the decision and the effort to be celibate, would be like someone who's made the decision to quit an addiction - some can fall off the wagon. How would it be for a married person who's fallen in love with someone else (and has had an affair), and broken up the relationship in order to save her marriage - some do rekindle the affair. No one suggests that it's an easy thing to do. It's not easy for gays who'd made vows to be celibate (so as to not offend God).....the same way that it's not easy for men who entered into priesthood, or women who became nuns. But, some make it. Clinging to God makes it easier to bear. It's not easy to resist temptation. We all face temptation all the time. And you bet, the devil knows which buttons to push. Omg that is such nonsense. Some people are supposed to be celibate because some other people don't like their homosexuality? Such a big load of stupid. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted July 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 (edited) Why be celibate? It is after all only sex. That's you, Ash. Obviously, for some gays, obedience to God is their priority. That ridiculous concept of saving yourself for marriage is a terrible notion. If you don't get along in the bedroom you ain't gonna get along many other ways. Oh? Do we see any decline to divorce now that pre-marital sex rules? That's a line boys use to convince girls to have sex. And that's the excuse girls say to themselves just so they can justify going along and having pre-marital sex. When they get mature enough about life - they'll see that's a load of bs. Having the same values, is the key! You can be both satisfied with sex, but if you don't share the same values - your relationship is doomed from the start! Edited July 6, 2016 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted July 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 (edited) No, a lot of people are simply confused about their sexuality. When they figure it out, that's when they become gay or straight. Figuring it out isn't a transformation. It's not a matter of "when." It's a matter of "if." IF they figure it out. Because some, don't ever get to figure it out. But you're right, figuring it out isn't transformation. It's just like solving a problem. Before you can take steps to solve a problem, you've got to know what's the problem. If, figuring it out, leads to dramatic change......... if it leads to a life-altering change - - it's the kind of transformation we're talking about here! As shown by the list of testimonials. Edited July 6, 2016 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 life-altering change As I see it there are basically three different areas for life-altering changes: Mental health Physical health How you treat others Any life-altering change can be for the better or worse in those area. It is great when the benefits are in more than one area, but often an improvement in one area leads to compromises in another area. Yes, it is possible to improve both your mental and physical health, but you can also improve one to the detriment of the other. You might feel better about yourself because you don't obsess about exercise, or you might feel better about yourself because you are exercising and seeing the results. Many people who find religion improves their mental health treat others better, but there are those who obsess about it and when they proselytize they have a negative effect on others with the extreme when they resort to violence. Equally there are those who find that life without religion leads to better mental health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 (edited) Obviously, for some gays, obedience to God is their priority. Seems to me what you're demanding is obedience to you. . Edited July 6, 2016 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted July 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 (edited) As I see it there are basically three different areas for life-altering changes: Mental health Physical health How you treat others Any life-altering change can be for the better or worse in those area. It is great when the benefits are in more than one area, but often an improvement in one area leads to compromises in another area. Yes, it is possible to improve both your mental and physical health, but you can also improve one to the detriment of the other. You might feel better about yourself because you don't obsess about exercise, or you might feel better about yourself because you are exercising and seeing the results. Many people who find religion improves their mental health treat others better, but there are those who obsess about it and when they proselytize they have a negative effect on others with the extreme when they resort to violence. Equally there are those who find that life without religion leads to better mental health. Yes, those you described are "self-improvement" examples. You used the term too, "improve." To improve is to make better (that's the definition). Therefore, it could mean stepping up a notch. I may cut back from smoking 1 pack of cigarettes a day from the usual 2 packs - that's an improvement. Transformation is more than just an improvement. Transformation is complete, or major change. Thus the first example given by the OP: from being a lesbian activist to suddenly becoming not only an ex-lesbian, but an outspoken activist for her new lifestyle. That's a complete turn-around. Edited July 6, 2016 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 Yes, those you described are "self-improvement" examples. You used the term too, "improve." To improve is to make better (that's the definition). Therefore, it could mean stepping up a notch. I may cut back from smoking 1 pack of cigarettes a day from the usual 2 packs - that's an improvement. Transformation is more than just an improvement. Transformation is complete, or major change. Thus the first example given by the OP: from being a lesbian activist to suddenly becoming not only an ex-lesbian, but an outspoken activist for her new lifestyle. That's a complete turn-around. Yes, I used improve, I also used detriment and possible. You are right, transformation is not just improvement, it includes detriment in its definition. Thanks for pointing out the non/extra religious equivalent of proselytizing - [outspoken] activist. Again I ask, how did it affect: Her mental health Her physical health How she treats others Note that #3 is beyond self help because it has an effect beyond the self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 Omg that is such nonsense. Some people are supposed to be celibate because some other people don't like their homosexuality? Such a big load of stupid. . That's total misconstruing what bcsapper had stated. Which is not helping your argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 That's a line boys use to convince girls to have sex. And that's the excuse girls say to themselves just so they can justify going along and having pre-marital sex. When they get mature enough about life - they'll see that's a load of bs. I'm pretty sure females feel the same way - If you don't enjoy sex together, not a chance in hell the marriage will survive. Better to find out before, there is no possibility for divorce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 (edited) That's total misconstruing what bcsapper had stated. Which is not helping your argument.I was replying to betsy's post:"gays who'd made vows to be celibate (so as to not offend God)" That's a load of stupid. . Edited July 6, 2016 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 I was referring to betsy's post. I got what you referring to. That wasn't hard to figure out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted July 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 (edited) Yes, I used improve, I also used detriment and possible. You are right, transformation is not just improvement, it includes detriment in its definition. Thanks for pointing out the non/extra religious equivalent of proselytizing - [outspoken] activist. Again I ask, how did it affect: Her mental health Her physical health How she treats others Note that #3 is beyond self help because it has an effect beyond the self. It is up to the individual who's done the transformation. Only he/she can answer that.m On that same note, regarding transgenders - which is a transformation - how did it affect his mental health? His physical health? Proselytizing is not exclusive to the religious, you know. Anyone who tries to solicit support for a group, or a cause, is also proselytizing. Edited July 6, 2016 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 (edited) That's you, Ash. Obviously, for some gays, obedience to God is their priority. Oh? Do we see any decline to divorce now that pre-marital sex rules? That's a line boys use to convince girls to have sex. And that's the excuse girls say to themselves just so they can justify going along and having pre-marital sex. When they get mature enough about life - they'll see that's a load of bs. Having the same values, is the key! You can be both satisfied with sex, but if you don't share the same values - your relationship is doomed from the start! Oh Betsy, you have to test drive a car before committing to driving it for a lifetime. What if it's not as roomy as the pictures or sputters up hill? What if the sunroof doesn't work? What if it leaks?? Edited July 6, 2016 by BC_chick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted July 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 (edited) As I see it there are basically three different areas for life-altering changes: Mental health Physical health How you treat others Three different areas for life-altering changes? I don't get that. What's that got to do with life-altering changes? One can have a life-altering change without having any problems with all three! A single woman who was going to abort her baby, had decided at the very last moment that she wants to keep the baby! That's a life-altering change. What's wrong about that? If she proselytize to other single pregnant women about her sudden change, and how rewarding she found it to be a mother.......you think there is anything wrong with that? If she gives courage to other pregnant single women....you think there's anything wrong with that? "Treatment of others" is quite ambiguous. What do you mean? Like what? Do you find anything wrong with a former gang member who lived a life of drugs and violence to go around preaching to his peers about his changed life when he found hope and grace with Christ? How is that any different from anyone who's been amazed at something he's had and now goes around recommending it at every opportunity? On the other hand, you see marijuana users proselytizing that marijuana is not addicting - doesn't care if there are children around - did any one among you complain about that? Edited July 6, 2016 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted July 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 (edited) Note that #3 is beyond self help because it has an effect beyond the self. Practically everything we do, or say will have an effect on others. Unless somebody's holding a gun to your head, I don't think anyone can force you to listen, or do something against your will. Have you had a vacuum salesman in your house? He can make you feel like an idiot, and that you're the worse at housekeeping....for not seeing the practicality of buying his vacuum cleaner. I could just toss him out of the house and put a no soliciting sign on my door. Edited July 6, 2016 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 You claim to know how people feel. Do you have some strange and wonderful gift that gives you the ability to separate what you think that people feel, what people say and what their true feelings are. If people won't open up to you and share their inner feelings, maybe you should look into why they don't trust you instead of claiming that no one else enjoys that luxury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 A challenge to anyone who claims to have been "converted" from gay to heterosexual: sit in a room and have a few good-looking underwear models of the same sex dance naked in front of you for 5 minutes. If your penis/clitoris gets erect, sorry you're still gay/bi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 If people won't open up to you and share their inner feelings, maybe you should look into why they don't trust you instead of claiming that no one else enjoys that luxury. Science says your sexual orientation is not a choice. I never chose to get erections when I was 12 years old when I saw women with big breasts, it just suddenly happened, & I had no control over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 Omg that is such nonsense. Some people are supposed to be celibate because some other people don't like their homosexuality? Such a big load of stupid. . It's like vegetarians banning meat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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