GOD of the BIBLE, is The CREATOR

[BubberMiley]

It was difficult for the Creator to find a good editor to fix the contradictions and errors in His text.

[DogOnPorch]

Probably getting his appendix removed.

[kimmy]

I don't understand metallicity (I equally don't care), but I also don't understand your question and how it's relevant. God put the metals there. God created the stars and the universe and everything in it. That's the religious answer. That's what betsy believes and that's why you'll never get an answer that satisfies you because it always comes back to God-in-the-gaps nonsense. He set the universe in motion and all the changes in the stars and in life on earth occurred because he knocked over the first domino.

But here's the thing. Who gives a crap about god in the gaps? I don't care. What I do care about is betsy misinterpreting the science and Christians like her insisting that their stories get told along with established scientific facts in the classroom. Their stories should be told. In social studies courses. Not in science classrooms. I don't give a crap what she or her friends personally believe. I care when they try to waterboard our children with their ignorance.

The Cole's Notes version is this:

-science says that the heavy elements we find in nature are formed by nuclear fission in the core of stars.

-science says that we have these elements on earth because stars went supernova and spread this matter all over, and that this matter later on formed into other planets and other stars elsewhere in the cosmos.

-The Bible says the Earth was the first thing God built.

Betsy is saying that Science is proving the Bible right, but clearly in this case that's just not so.

And this is hardly the only example, either. There's lots of information to corroborate that lots of things in the universe are far older than our planet, contrary to what the Bible says.

-k

[DogOnPorch]

Quite correct, kimmy.

It should also be noted that if there is a Supreme Creator as betsy suggests, he/she/it is hitting the 'Start New Game' button on the ol' God-XBox. New stars and planets are being formed at any given moment in our Universe. Pretty cool. I believe Hubble (or its ilk) snapped a pic of an accretion disc with blobs of matter condensing at points...

...bearded grandfatherly man not seen.

[Moonlight Graham]

Adam and Eve has been proven nonsense by science. Noah's Ark has been proven nonsense by science. Earth/universe being only several thousand years old has been proven nonsense.

Account for that betsy.

[BubberMiley]

Hyperbole!

[cybercoma]

-The Bible says the Earth was the first thing God built.

-k

But the Bible doesn't say that. It says that first there was light.

[kimmy]

¹ In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

² And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

³ And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

⁴ And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

⁵ And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

⁶ And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

⁷ And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

⁸ And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

⁹ And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

¹⁰ And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

¹¹ And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

¹² And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

¹³ And the evening and the morning were the third day.

¹⁴ And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

¹⁵ And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

¹⁶ And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

¹⁷ And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

¹⁸ And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

¹⁹ And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

²⁰ And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

²¹ And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

²² And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

So in line 1 clearly we've got "the earth", in some vague description, existing before "the light".

In line 2 we've got "the waters" also clearly existing before "the light".

"The light" arrives in line 3. Since the sun and stars won't be created for 11 more lines, we can only imagine what the source of this light may be.

In lines 4 and 5 we've got day and night being created before the sun or stars.

In lines 6 and 7 God creates the sky, which holds some water "up". Still no sun or stars at this point.

Line 8, we have morning, although clearly a morning without a sunrise.

In lines 9-10 dry land arrives for the first time. It says God made dry land appear by moving the water away, so it seems the land was there already, but submerged.

In lines 11-12 God creates plants! Trees bearing fruit! Herbs bearing seed! Grass! It's gotta be 4:20 somewhere!

In lines 14-16, God gets around to creating the sun and moon! Which is lucky, because now the plants he created can photosynthesize!

Now, while I am neither a geologist nor a cosmologist, I am pretty sure that none of this bears even a faint resemblance to the actual order in which these things arrived, and I don't think even the most creative interpretation of those verses can spin it into something that jives with the information we have.

-k

[DogOnPorch]

But the Bible doesn't say that. It says that first there was light.

As kimmy points out: Heaven and Earth.

It's not a bad creation fable or anything like that. Just typical of them. Each primal culture tends to have its own. The Gita's for example...

http://www.read-legends-and-myths.com/hindu-creation-myth.html

[Moonlight Graham]

KImmy for the win.

[Bonam]

I prefer the creation fable of the Silmarillion. The universe was made in music. Of course, one could totally interpret that music really meant the vibration of strings as in string theory. It fits the science!

Edited May 26, 2016 by Bonam

[waldo]

This thread will provide numerous evidence, leaving no doubt that the God of Abraham is the Designer, the Creator

ah ha! All is revealed now... about your reluctance to respond to the many, many, many requests/challenges put to in your other 'NAS thread', asking you to provide your claimed, 'scientific based evidence for God creation'. Your refusal in that thread was simply your 'big tease... your setup', for this thread! Well played.

.

[cybercoma]

As kimmy points out: Heaven and Earth.

It's not a bad creation fable or anything like that. Just typical of them. Each primal culture tends to have its own. The Gita's for example...

http://www.read-legends-and-myths.com/hindu-creation-myth.html

What is the "earth" in the beginning when he goes on to create the lands, oceans, and sky?

[?Impact]

Remember the terms, Cumulative or corroborating evidences?

I prefer, House of Cards - held together with duck tape and paper clips.

[DogOnPorch]

What is the "earth" in the beginning when he goes on to create the lands, oceans, and sky?

Parables, eh? Then the whole thing is useless and unreliable.

We have to stick to what the Bible says...

[cybercoma]

Parables, eh? Then the whole thing is useless and unreliable.

We have to stick to what the Bible says...

You can throw it all away, but I'm showing you how religious people could interpret it to be in line with science and you keep saying no. Of course it's parables. Jesus told parables. Parables were a common way of educating people when the Bible was being written. It's going to be interpreted as allegory one way or another. betsy will never be convinced by your arguments, regardless of how right you are.

[DogOnPorch]

You can throw it all away, but I'm showing you how religious people could interpret it to be in line with science and you keep saying no. Of course it's parables. Jesus told parables. Parables were a common way of educating people when the Bible was being written. It's going to be interpreted as allegory one way or another. betsy will never be convinced by your arguments, regardless of how right you are.

Betsy doesn't need to be convinced of anything. The particular insanity Christians have is unlikely to result in exploding cafes or airliners doing dives into buildings.

However, I'm pretty firm on sticking to what the Bible actually says...just like the Quran.

[cybercoma]

Sorry, but that's not very insightful. What the Bible or Quran says is far less important than how people interpret them. I guess that's been my point this whole time. If you don't take the time to understand the ways people interpret texts, you're not getting a picture of anything other than a reflection of your own interpretation.

[?Impact]

Since betsy is MIA, I will take up the creationists side and argue against stellar metallicity. According to big bang theory, only hydrogen, helium, and very trace amounts of lithium were created during the early phase of the universe. All other elements, considered metals, were created by nuclear fusion inside of stars. Where is the evidence of these non-metal stars? Isn't science evidence based?

[DogOnPorch]

Since betsy is MIA, I will take up the creationists side and argue against stellar metallicity. According to big bang theory, only hydrogen, helium, and very trace amounts of lithium were created during the early phase of the universe. All other elements, considered metals, were created by nuclear fusion inside of stars. Where is the evidence of these non-metal stars? Isn't science evidence based?

It is surmised through extrapolation that all Population III stars were high mass super giants with very short life spans for stars. They have long since gone supernovae. If any do still exist, they are in the form of white dwarfs, black holes and neutron stars...or if low mass Pop III stars do exist...too dim to see.

Edited May 26, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[DogOnPorch]

Sorry, but that's not very insightful. What the Bible or Quran says is far less important than how people interpret them. I guess that's been my point this whole time. If you don't take the time to understand the ways people interpret texts, you're not getting a picture of anything other than a reflection of your own interpretation.

Not insightful? You're free to provide another source for 'God's Word'. What individual Christians may think is not very important...they can be just as wrong about their religion as an atheist.

[cybercoma]

All text is interpreted. You seem to be forgetting that. Every piece of media you consume, you interpret.

[?Impact]

They have long since gone supernovae.

Irrelevant, when we look out in space (telescope, radio, naked eye) we are looking back in time as well.

Pop III stars do exist

Sounds like faith to me.

(How am I doing as a creationist?)

[DogOnPorch]

All text is interpreted. You seem to be forgetting that. Every piece of media you consume, you interpret.

I'll stick to what the Bible says being an atheist. There are no authorities needed to understand the Bible. I don't believe invisible sky men are a reality

[DogOnPorch]

Irrelevant, when we look out in space (telescope, radio, naked eye) we are looking back in time as well.

Sounds like faith to me.

(How am I doing as a creationist?)

You're free to discard parts of science that don't fit with your world view. That doesn't mean there are no Pop III stars.

You misquoted me in the second part...typical for a Creationist.