GOD of the BIBLE, is The CREATOR

[cybercoma]

Here's a hint, though...

When was "In the beginning?"

...and so on.

Now, I have to accept the Bible as it is written. So one can't say: this really means that. This leads to problems as I can turn it around and say : that really means this.

So, in the beginning, God created what?

Pretty obvious isn't it. God made the stars first and we're made of star stuff. The answer is right there in the BIble before Carl Sagan even said it.

[DogOnPorch]

Pretty obvious isn't it. God made the stars first and we're made of star stuff. The answer is right there in the BIble before Carl Sagan even said it.

That's not what the Bible says.

[DogOnPorch]

You're free to provide another source for God's word...other than the Bible.

[betsy]

5. The CREATOR has intimate knowledge of His Creation: The Second Law of Thermodynamics

The Second Law of Thermodynamics is the natural law towards disorder, the law of decay, the law of increasing entropy.
It is all-pervasive and unfailing. It states that in all physical processes, every ordered system over time tends to become more disordered.

Three verses by different authors, from different timelines in the Bible, indicate the universe is wearing out.


Psalm 102
25
In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
26
They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.


Isaiah 51
6
Lift up your eyes to the heavens,
look at the earth beneath;
the heavens will vanish like smoke,
the earth will wear out like a garment
and its inhabitants die like flies.


Hebrews 1
10 He also says,

“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11
They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.



Written three thousand years before the dawn of modern science, according to the Bible, the universe is like a suit of clothes that is wearing out. In other words, the universe is deteriorating, becoming less and less orderly.

That the universe is becoming more random and less orderly, is a scientifically testable statement.

Fact: the universe, in its current state is deteriorating.
Fact: the rotation of the earth is slowing.
Fact: the magnetic field of the earth is fading.
Fact: Erosion constantly wear out the features of the earth.
Fact: Stars, including our sun, burns billions of tons of fuel everyday, and will eventually exhaust their fuel.
Fact: Our bodies wear out; we die and decay to dust.
Fact: Our houses, and machines wear out.
Fact: atoms decay to simpler products.

[betsy]

6. The CREATOR has intimate knowledge of His Creation: Man is made from dust

Genesis 2:7
7 Then the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life,
and the man became a living being.


Genesis 3:19
By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.”



Science had discovered that the human body is composed of base and trace elements - all of which are found in the earth.

Almost 99% of the mass of the human body is made up of six elements: oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus. Only about 0.85% is composed of another five elements: potassium, sulfur, sodium, chlorine, and magnesium.
All are necessary to live.

Most of the elements needed for life are relatively common in the Earth's crust.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compos...the_human_body

Chemical elements listed by their presence in human body

Read more: http://www.lenntech.com/periodic-cha...#ixzz481CMwgeW

Edited May 25, 2016 by betsy

[betsy]

If science is accurate about the evolution of snakes, then science also supports Genesis 3.

According to science, snakes used to have limbs.

Needless to say, the key event in snake evolution was the gradual withering away of these reptiles' front and hind limbs.

http://dinosaurs.about.com/od/otherp...-Evolution.htm

A verse in Genesis 3 imply that the serpent (snake) wasn't the kind of snake we see today. It implies that the snake did not slither.

Genesis 3 relates the fall of Adam and Eve, due to the serpent. God had put a curse on the serpent:


Genesis 3
14 So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,
“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.


"Eating dust," is obviously a hyperbole from being so close to the ground.

[betsy]

This is my question to you: "How do you explain away Stellar Metallicity in regards to your Creation Fable?"

I've asked you several times now but your deity has yet to provide an answer. If he/she/it can't figure out this one...why should I accept he/she/it as the ultimate creator?

What exactly about metallicity in relation to creation are you referring to? Why don't you explain to us why you think metallicity negates creation.

You're the one who brought up metallicity - don't just ask me to explain it away.

YOU explain why you think it contradicts creation by God......and then, I'll try to give a rebuttal (if I can.)

[?Impact]

The Bible was written by fishermen, kings, government officials, priests, farmers, shepherds, and doctors.......and yet, from all this diversity comes an incredible unity, with common themes woven throughout. That unity is due to a single fact: it ultimately has One Author – God Himself.

The Bible is rife with inconsistencies, there is no unity. The individual books themselves, even chapters, are full of internal inconsistencies. Just one of thousands of examples:

Genesis 1:3-5

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Genesis 1:14-19

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

I'm sorry betsy, but you can't build an argument when your foundation is crumbling under your feet. Was day and night created on the first or fourth day?

[BubberMiley]

That part was just hyperbole. Like Leviticus. Hyperbole.

[DogOnPorch]

What exactly about metallicity in relation to creation are you referring to? Why don't you explain to us why you think metallicity negates creation.

You're the one who brought up metallicity - don't just ask me to explain it away.

YOU explain why you think it contradicts creation by God......and then, I'll try to give a rebuttal (if I can.)

It contradicts your creation fable. Earth was not created in the beginning. Nowhere near the beginning.

[DogOnPorch]

That part was just hyperbole. Like Leviticus. Hyperbole.

Where does God say that?

[BubberMiley]

Where does God say that?

Following Betsy's lead, any part of the Bible that is self-contradictory, incorrect, or insane is just hyperbole. God likes to exaggerate.

[DogOnPorch]

Following Betsy's lead, any part of the Bible that is self-contradictory, incorrect, or insane is just hyperbole. God likes to exaggerate.

Fair enough. If the Bible is parables and hyperbola...then it can't be trusted as a source of information regarding Earth's real origin from the accretion disc of our star, the Sun.

I'm easy going that way...

[?Impact]

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

That first statement informs us that:

1. the universe had a beginning

You are saying that God created the universe (heavens and earth), therefore you are explicitly stating that something outside of the universe existed/exists. Science on the other hand does not speculate about that which there is no evidence. You are playing word games in order to validate your speculation, that is not the way science works.

[BubberMiley]

When you consider the detail and complexity of God, it suggests He must have had a Creator.

[?Impact]

Since the subject of 'beginning' has been raised, I though we should also talk about 'end':

Ecclesiastes 1:4

One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

Mark 13:31

Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Yet another one of the Bible's inconsistencies, the exact opposite of the unity that betsy talks about. Which is it, will the Earth come to an end or not?

Edited May 25, 2016 by ?Impact

[BubberMiley]

Which is it, will the Earth come to an end or not?[/size]

Hyperbole.

[cybercoma]

That's not what the Bible says.

Of course it is. You've already quoted that he said "let there be light" first. The stars are lights.

[DogOnPorch]

Of course it is. You've already quoted that he said "let there be light" first. The stars are lights.

In the beginning, God created the heavens and Earth.

(Impossible)

[DogOnPorch]

What is liquid water doing existing at the beginning of the Universe?

[DogOnPorch]

Sunlight and stars are two different things according to the Bible. Sky...of all things...was created on the second day...two revolutions of Earth...not billions of years in some parable....

Shall I go on?

[cybercoma]

In the beginning, God created the heavens and Earth.

(Impossible)

Despite the fact that I'm jokingly playing devil's advocate, do you really not see how it could be interpreted that he created the sun first?

The Beginning

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. ² Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

³ And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. ⁴ God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. ⁵ God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

So God created light on the first day, whilst "earth was formless and empty" or said differently, it was nothingness. What follows is his crafting of the earth.

⁶ And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” ⁷ So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. ⁸ God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

Here he begins to create the earth, starting with the air and the sea, after which he begins creating land.

⁹ And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. ¹⁰ God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

¹¹ Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. ¹² The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. ¹³ And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

The passage that follows describes the stars again, but this was already set into motion on the first day.

¹⁴ And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, ¹⁵ and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. ¹⁶ God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. ¹⁷ God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, ¹⁸ to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. ¹⁹ And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

So while it talks in this section about day and night, it was already referred to in Genesis 1:5 above. What it looks like here is that the Bible was way ahead of science in describing new stars being born.

Then he goes on to discuss animal life and whatnot before creating Adam and Eve.

You don't see how someone who's devoutly religious could interpret that in terms of stellar metallicity? On the first day light was created. Before anything else there was light in the darkness. That could very clearly be read as being about the stars or the big bang or whatever a devoutly religious person wants to claim.

[DogOnPorch]

Devil's Advocate all you wish. Our star is a G2V Population I metal rich star. Other stars had to both live and die in order to give rise to the elements beyond helium.

Can you grasp it yet?

[cybercoma]

Where did the first star come from?

[DogOnPorch]

Look-up Stellar Populations (link given earlier) for an introduction to where the first star came from.

Submitting, as the religious do, to the idea that life is unique to Earth...and humans...a one-G creature...are made in the image of an all powerful being deity with wisdom teeth is a rather bleak view. But then, these folks are apocalyptic and can't wait for reality to end so they can be off to Heaven and its endless perks.

Insane...

But, here's another rather big problem re: the Bible and its creation fable...

What about the stars that are older than our own Sun? A typical red dwarf (for example) has billions upon billions of years on us lifespan wise.

Another fun thought...most if not all have planets.

Edited May 25, 2016 by DogOnPorch