GOD of the BIBLE, is The CREATOR

[Guest]

Ya i don't understand why God needed men to write a Bible and then have them keep changing it to contradict itself. As an omnipotent being, why didn't he himself create a Bible right after he created Adam and Eve? Why doesn't he appear in the sky every once in a while to give us some guidance instead of having us believe a bunch of power-hungry schmuks in white robes that don't really know much at all?

I suspect many of those power hungry schmucks in dresses, big hats or fancy collars know exactly what's what. That's why they assert their expertise in scriptural matters, claiming superiority when negotiating all of those contradictions and plot holes. Gotta, keep them believing to keep the lights on; so get 'em young and beat them with a stick towards the dangling carrot. Fear, praise, bribery, treats, guilt, whatever it takes to keep the donations coming in.

On a side note, I wonder how today's religious right would treat Adam and Eve. I mean one is a trans-gendered, clone after all; what bathroom would she use? Would she get punched in the face by Jim Bob and Cleatus guarding the entrance to the target loo.

[?Impact]

I mean one is a trans-gendered, clone after all

Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Now you know why there is that fear of the trans-gendered.

[Guest]

Now you know why there is that fear of the trans-gendered.

Ha ha...nice.

[betsy]

Sorry folks. I'll have to abandon this thread, guys - due to cross posting rules.

All the numbered evidences that I would have given - approx. 14 of them now - must be copy/pasted from the other forum since I don't have the inclination to make another big effort in composition, for something that's basically the same.

Edited June 3, 2016 by betsy

[?Impact]

According to Merriam-Webster dictionary:

evidence

noun: ev·i·dence

1. a : an outward sign : indication
   b : something that furnishes proof : testimony; specifically : something legally submitted to a tribunal to ascertain the truth of a matter
2. : one who bears witness; especially : one who voluntarily confesses a crime and testifies for the prosecution against his accomplices

------------------------------

opinion

noun: opin·ion

1. a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter
   b : approval, esteem
2. a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge
   b : a generally held view
3. a : a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert
   b : the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based

I don't recall seeing any evidence, only opinion.

Edited June 3, 2016 by ?Impact

[betsy]

In the beginning, God created the heavens and Earth.

(Impossible)

It's not.

The heavens could be interpreted as already having the stars and other heavenly bodies.

Furthermore, the first statement is like an introductory statement.

Edited June 7, 2016 by betsy

[betsy]

Since the subject of 'beginning' has been raised, I though we should also talk about 'end':

Ecclesiastes 1:4

One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

Mark 13:31

Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Yet another one of the Bible's inconsistencies, the exact opposite of the unity that betsy talks about. Which is it, will the Earth come to an end or not?

There is no contradiction!

You have to interpret what you read within the context of what the subject is all about.

That's the basic of reading comprehension - not only in reading the Bible, but in reading any materials!

Ecclesiastes 1:4 is a comparison between generations of people that come and go, and the longevity of earth!

Are your great, great grandparents still around, btw? Did they live on this same earth?

Quote-mining out of context, you'll also see the phrase, "there is no God"........

Psalm 14:1

The fool says in his heart, "There is no God."

.........then you'll say, "Aha! A contradiction!"

Edited June 7, 2016 by betsy

[DogOnPorch]

Betsy: You've had a week to look into stellar metallicity. How do you explain it away in regards to your Bible's creation myth?

[?Impact]

You have to interpret what you read within the context of what the subject is all about.

...

Quote-mining out of context,

Cute, interpretation and context are important to you here but in the other thread about NAS you call them irrelevant. Talk about Quote-mining out of context.

b.t.w. I interpret the Bible as a story book designed by self appointed authorities to maintain control and dominance over the populace.

[betsy]

Betsy: You've had a week to look into stellar metallicity. How do you explain it away in regards to your Bible's creation myth?

Actually, I responded to you on that....however, when I clicked "post," I found out I was suspended!

Anyway, here it is again:

What about metallicity? Explain how you say it relates with creation? How does it impact creation?

I can't read your mind....and I won't read any source you give, having me guessing what you're arguing about.

Explain.

Edited June 7, 2016 by betsy

[betsy]

Cute, interpretation and context are important to you here but in the other thread about NAS you call them irrelevant. Talk about Quote-mining out of context.

b.t.w. I interpret the Bible as a story book designed by self appointed authorities to maintain control and dominance over the populace.

I'm not interested in your interpretation. Here's my standard reply to posters like you:

Bye-bye for now.

I'll get back to you when you've got something worth responding to.

Edited June 7, 2016 by betsy

[DogOnPorch]

Actually, I responded to you on that....however, when I clicked "post," I found out I was suspended!

Anyway, here it is again:

What about metallicity? Explain how you say it relates with creation? How does it impact creation?

I can't read your mind....and I won't read any source you give, having me guessing what you're arguing about.

Explain.

Other worlds died to make our Earth. We know how it happens in the life cycles of stars...even if you don't personally understand metallicity, chemistry and such. Personal incredulity is not your friend in a debate, but I do understand your position if you wish to continue clinging to Bronze Age myths.

Stars are dying as we type...stars are being born as we type. Planets forming around these stars... We're not special...as stars/planets go.

That's the reality. We're not in the beginning of anything.

But as long as you're comfortable with your God of the Gaps...or whatever limited power your apparent creator has left...I don't mind Christianity that much. As long as your lot keeps out of the classrooms.

Good music...no other religion comes close for the good tunes.

[?Impact]

We're not in the beginning of anything.

There were three* possible answers to your original question:

1. The Science is wrong

2. The Bible can be interpreted (ie. God set the conditions to make the world)

3. I don't care what you have to say, Praise God.

betsy obviously choose 3.

*three, assuming you are a believer, obviously non-believers would have a different answer

Edited June 7, 2016 by ?Impact

[overthere]

Betsy, have you been to The Creation Museum is Big Valley, Alberta? http://www.bvcsm.com/

It really is a mandatory stop if you are a Creationist or believe in Intelligent Design. I won't say the quality of your arguments here will be improved by the experience, but the quantity of them will rise. I went last year, and they try to cover and refute all the evolutionary evidence in detail.

It is not far from Drumheller, with the nearby Royal Tyrell Museum which has an astonishing amount of evolutionary evidence in the form of loads of actual dinosaurs. The Creation Museums founders thought there needed to be another viewpoint presented, just down the road. The small town of Big Valley(a different place from where they hold the giant annual Big Valley country music festival) is also a quite lovely village to just visit. The Creation Museum is situated to nab people heading to or from the Royal Tyrell.

[Guest]

Betsy, have you been to The Creation Museum is Big Valley, Alberta? http://www.bvcsm.com/

I'm driving down to see Ken Ham's creation museum and Ark Encounter this fall. We're really going for a football game but plan to hit both for a laugh. I expect it will be like visiting a circus sideshow.

[DogOnPorch]

Without the Chicxulub Impact Event, it is unlikely that mammals would have evolved beyond the tiny critters they were 65,000,000 years ago. Not a lot of room to grow in that environment...without getting eaten.

[DogOnPorch]

There were three* possible answers to your original question:

1. The Science is wrong

2. The Bible can be interpreted (ie. God set the conditions to make the world)

3. I don't care what you have to say, Praise God.

betsy obviously choose 3.

*three, assuming you are a believer, obviously non-believers would have a different answer

The Christian's God is a bit of a joker since Sirius is likely to go supernova well before the lifespan of our middle-aged Type G star is up...

But, hey...all in the big plan.

[betsy]

Other worlds died to make our Earth. We know how it happens in the life cycles of stars...even if you don't personally understand metallicity, chemistry and such. Personal incredulity is not your friend in a debate, but I do understand your position if you wish to continue clinging to Bronze Age myths.

Stars are dying as we type...stars are being born as we type. Planets forming around these stars... We're not special...as stars/planets go.

That's the reality. We're not in the beginning of anything.

But as long as you're comfortable with your God of the Gaps...or whatever limited power your apparent creator has left...I don't mind Christianity that much. As long as your lot keeps out of the classrooms.

Good music...no other religion comes close for the good tunes.

We know there is a life cycle. There is a life cycle for practically everything.....but the question is,

Where did those other worlds come from?

Edited June 8, 2016 by betsy

[DogOnPorch]

We know there is a life cycle. There is a life cycle for practically everything.....but the question is,

Where did those other worlds come from?

Massive primal clouds of gas. Far more interesting than any Bronze Age myth ancient humans could dream-up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H_II_region

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_cloud

[betsy]

Massive primal clouds of gas. Far more interesting than any Bronze Age myth ancient humans could dream-up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H_II_region

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_cloud

Where did those so-called "clouds of gas" come from?

Furthermore, your source says, that's just a hypothesis:

The full details of massive star formation within H II regions are not yet well known.

Edited June 8, 2016 by betsy

[DogOnPorch]

Where did those so-called "clouds of gas" come from?

Why don't you tell me where you think they came from if you're going to be incredulous?

[betsy]

Why don't you tell me where you think they came from if you're going to be incredulous?

It's a hypothesis, DOP.

Here, read the abstract and introduction section from Harvard. The abstract indicate it is a proposal. In the introduction, assumptive terms are used like, "might have." It also indicates that it is a hypothesis.

http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=1997MNRAS.285..403G&db_key=AST&page_ind=0&data_type=GIF&type=SCREEN_VIEW&classic=YES

I know I've given another link in another forum.....somebody brought it up too.

Edited June 8, 2016 by betsy

[DogOnPorch]

It's a hypothesis, DOP.

Here, read the abstract and introduction section from Harvard.

http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=1997MNRAS.285..403G&db_key=AST&page_ind=0&data_type=GIF&type=SCREEN_VIEW&classic=YES

I know I've given another link in another forum.....somebody brought it up too.

And your Bronze Age myth is reality? That's called God of the Gaps and it's an incredible shrinking god. Whatever science can't explain 110%...must be magic. The trouble is that science does figure it out and you're left with an even smaller...even more impotent myth.

[betsy]

And your Bronze Age myth is reality? That's called God of the Gaps and it's an incredible shrinking god. Whatever science can't explain 110%...must be magic. The trouble is that science does figure it out and you're left with an even smaller...even more impotent myth.

It's your "reality" that has a big problem. It's just been pointed out to you.

Obviously you didn't even know your "reality" is merely a hypothesis! Deal with that.

Never mind trying to deflect.

Edited June 8, 2016 by betsy

[DogOnPorch]

It's your "reality" that has a big problem. It's just been pointed out to you.

Obviously you didn't even know your "reality" is merely a hypothesis! Deal with that.

Never mind trying to deflect.

No...I hit it on the head. You already have your conclusion and now seek "evidence" to support it. You reject everything that doesn't support it. Bad science. It's the ONLY way your myth can survive in the modern world where magic is getting to be very rare, indeed.