America under President Trump

bush_cheney2004 · November 9, 2019

1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said:

These clowns want to compare Trump to imaginary politicians that never tell a lie and are saints with perfect moral conduct, as if there was anybody running against him who fit that description.

That's because they are operating at the level of personal hate and animus for Trump, losing all objectivity or historical perspective for U.S. presidents and the duties of office.

Trump just drives them nuts !

Yzermandius19 · November 9, 2019

4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

That's because they are operating at the level of personal hate and animus for Trump, losing all objectivity or historical perspective for U.S. presidents and the duties of office.

Trump just drives them nuts !

No it's worse than that. They actually think it's possible for a politician to be a saint and get elected, and so when reality shows that not to be the case, they hate on the player for playing by the rules and simply demand the rules of the game be changed, even though if they did that wouldn't result in a saint getting elected. If a politician doesn't live up to standard that no politician will ever live up to, they lash out at them, especially if they disagree with them politically.

Edited November 9, 2019 by Yzermandius19

godzilla · November 9, 2019

i see what you guys are saying... its like when people get upset about crooked cops. how should we expect all cops not to be crooked?! no need to complain or demand that cop be fired! we can't afford to keep looking for honest cops! same with those damn fireman, judges etc etc.. whats a little corruption! whats a little killing foreign children! get over it! that's the job!

Yzermandius19 · November 9, 2019

9 minutes ago, godzilla said:

i see what you guys are saying... its like when people get upset about crooked cops. how should we expect all cops not to be crooked?! no need to complain or demand that cop be fired! we can't afford to keep looking for honest cops! same with those damn fireman, judges etc etc.. whats a little corruption! whats a little killing foreign children! get over it! that's the job!

There are no politicians who aren't crooked who have any chance of winning the Presidency. Wishful thinking isn't going to change that, corrupt politicians are the only politicians, any theoretical honest politicians lose to the corrupt ones, you can't win a political race with one arm tied behind your back, using kid gloves because you are too moral to take them off.

There are plenty of non-crooked cops. Apples and Oranges.

Being childish and screaming "life isn't fair!" in the face of reality isn't productive. Grow up.

Edited November 9, 2019 by Yzermandius19

godzilla · November 9, 2019

like I've stated. you're being brainwashed to expect less. its, we're all corrupt so pick your corruption. you're the one giving up. I've been back on this board for a short time and I've already detected that bush_cheney2004 is a professional crank. this is what she does for a living.

Yzermandius19 · November 9, 2019

1 hour ago, godzilla said:

like I've stated. you're being brainwashed to expect less. its, we're all corrupt so pick your corruption. you're the one giving up. I've been back on this board for a short time and I've already detected that bush_cheney2004 is a professional crank. this is what she does for a living.

I simply acknowledge reality while you indulge in naive optimism. If you think simply "not giving up" is going to fix the issue, you are deluding yourself. Doesn't matter how much you demand that people only support honest politicians, even if everyone agreed, that will simply result in the vast majority of people thinking politicians who tell them what they want to hear are the only honest ones.

Nothing gets solved that way, that is actually the status quo, you simply don't realize it and put too much faith in other people to discern who is and isn't an honest politician with any accuracy. You think that them not doing so is simply a sign that they've "given up", but most people are just rubes, and these rubes are the vast majority of the electorate who elect corrupt politicians thinking they are honest because they tell them what they want to hear. You aren't going to change human nature or election results for that matter, by virtue signaling about corrupt politicians, that's a non-starter.

Also you're impression of bush_cheney2004 is totally inaccurate, as are your mind reading skills.

Edited November 9, 2019 by Yzermandius19

godzilla · November 9, 2019

I'm a naïve optimist, Yzermandius! you got me!

but I'm only here to locate those reading from brochures and feeding their posts into my machine learning models for my masters thesis. and bush_cheneys2004 posts are red lining my models. she's/he's a crank. beware.

Edited November 9, 2019 by godzilla

Yzermandius19 · November 9, 2019

7 minutes ago, godzilla said:

I'm a naïve optimist, Yzermandius! you got me!

but I'm only here to locate those reading from brochures and feeding their posts into my machine learning models for my masters thesis. and bush_cheneys2004 posts are red lining my models. she's/he's a crank. beware.

bush_cheney2004 is one of the better posters around these parts, you simply want to write them off without thinking, and are coming up with a lame and nonsensical excuse to try and justify it.

You're new and rushing to judgement, I know bush_cheney2004 far better than you do and you're way off.

Edited November 9, 2019 by Yzermandius19

Rue · November 9, 2019

14 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

President Bill Clinton was impeached by the GOP in less than 90 days (Oct - Dec 1998). Slam...bam...thank-you Ma'm.

Pelosi and her Democratic gang that can't shoot straight are still fumbling and bumbling to get the job done against President Trump.

This could easily drag on into 2020.

You compare apples to oranges or a blow job to a situation with many legal nuances and issues to be investigated so of course the processes have different time lines. One deals with far more complex issues to consider.

Rue · November 9, 2019

16 hours ago, godzilla said:

I think Clinton was impeached.

"Impeachment is the process by which a legislative body levels charges against a government official. Impeachment does not in itself remove the official definitively from office; it is similar to an indictment in criminal law, and thus it is essentially the statement of charges against the official. "

Impeachment

That is how it is used in the AMERICAN sense. It its actual true and original legal context its a two step process which includes the recommending of charges BUT ALSO THE prosecution, conviction and subsequent removal from office. The original concept comes from unwritten British constitutional law. It evolved as it is to the American version where they simply use the word impeachment to describe the initial stage 1 in the Congress. The problem with that is most Americans have no clue what it means when its used in that limited way and think it means finding the person impeached guilty. Americans are not too swift when it comes to their own government processes or laws and so they in addition to watering down full legal concepts and using inaccurate names think their definition is the best and only one. Seriously Godzilla the American use of the word impeachment is not the only one but Americans believe it is so I am just giving the most venerable Yank on the board a hard time. Someone needs to put her in her colonial upstart place. Yanks need to appreciate the legal systems they inherited and get back to using them in the true context they were envisioned not give half assed definitions that are inaccurate.

All kidding aside I get it I do. Thanks. God bless America.

Rue · November 9, 2019

7 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

bush_cheney2004 is one of the better posters around these parts, you simply want to write them off without thinking, and are coming up with a lame and nonsensical excuse to try and justify it.

You're new and rushing to judgement, I know bush_cheney2004 far better than you do and you're way off.

I agree with Y. Bush Chaney is a gem. I love to give her a what for in debates. She is well written, spoken and don't let the pro Yank barbs fool you. I have nothing but respect for her and quite frankly all the pro Trump supporters on this thread like Y who knows that too but they all are fools for supporting Trump and I will get them all and not stop until Pee We Herman is President.

Rue · November 9, 2019

7 hours ago, godzilla said:

I'm a naïve optimist, Yzermandius! you got me!

but I'm only here to locate those reading from brochures and feeding their posts into my machine learning models for my masters thesis. and bush_cheneys2004 posts are red lining my models. she's/he's a crank. beware.

Yer not naïve. Youz ryt real good stuff on the threads.

Rue · November 9, 2019

14 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

No it's worse than that. They actually think it's possible for a politician to be a saint and get elected, and so when reality shows that not to be the case, they hate on the player for playing by the rules and simply demand the rules of the game be changed, even though if they did that wouldn't result in a saint getting elected. If a politician doesn't live up to standard that no politician will ever live up to, they lash out at them, especially if they disagree with them politically.

No but we should expect ALL politicians to be far better than say Trudeau or Trump. We have grown complacent as the standard of expected moral behavior has lowered itself. There has been an erosion since Nixon.

With due respect Y because we will always disagree with this, I think the US is far better than accepting Trump as acceptable and I say the same about Canada and Trudeau. We've settled for light weight idiots.

Edited November 9, 2019 by Rue

Rue · November 9, 2019

14 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

That's because they are operating at the level of personal hate and animus for Trump, losing all objectivity or historical perspective for U.S. presidents and the duties of office.

Trump just drives them nuts !

You could also say because he operates with such personal hatred and animus never before seen in the POTUS and using his Twitter to display an unstable, illiterate non stop series of alienating, mentally disturbed bull shit, its caused the House of Representatives, Senate, court system and media to struggle to deal with the historical perspective he now is imposing on the US.

Edited November 9, 2019 by Rue

Rue · November 9, 2019

14 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Bill Clinton lied under oath in a federal deposition, and obstructed justice. So he payed the political price...impeachment is a political process...not criminal.

The Democrats are taking so long because they already got burned with the Mueller Report, which only made Trump stronger.

The only way to beat Trump is to defeat him in an election as long as the Senate has his back.

Current odds are that the Democrats cannot beat Trump in 2020.

Bill Clinton was given a blow job and then tried to weasel his way out of admitting he got a blow job. Just say it.

They did not put him through stage 1 of the Impeachment process for anything else. Clinton and his wife as we know have a better understanding were involved in numerous conflict of interest business deals while in office that could, if proven have very well got him removed from office but at the time all they had was a blow job and a stain on a dress.

The issue now which is the issue Clinton's behavior can not change is Trump's business activities before and during his time in office as well as his conduct while in office with Ukraine. No one has questioned Trump getting a blow job. In fact the media won't go near his 3rd wife and they should. Her father lives in the US and follows Donald Trump everywhere. That man, Melania's father, was a KGB operative and a high up in the Communist Party and no one questions what the hell he does in the US. No one questions the fact that Melania Trump is the son of a KGB operative and worked in an escort agency with ties to Epstein when she met Trump. No one questions how Trump is compromised and is being manipulated by the successor to the KGB and Putin.

Instead of worrying about where Monica's lips were, you might want to check out how Trump bragged about how many commie women he bagged, using his own words, and how he is compromised and being blackmailed.

I could send you the photos of Melania pissing on his head if you want. Its a small world. His hair didn't turn that weird yellow for just any reason. Clinton was a dirty conflicted Prez and now Trump is. One does not make the other disappear or make him more moral. They both are herpes-even if there exact strains are a bit different. Herpes is herpes. Its spread by questionable behavior. As for other politicians, the fact they are corrupted does not change what Trump is doing.

Now let's deal with Biden one last time. Of course his son has his father's name and that probably was why he was placed on a board of directors. Of course. Proving it then led to corruption or compromised dealings that impacted on US foreign policy is the question. If Trump backers think there is evidence then they should understand, an independent legal investigation not one the President tries to coerce using his powers of office, is the way to go about conducting the investigation, especially when the President is openly in a political campaign to be relected running against Joe Biden. He used his office for partisan issues, that is the issue. He was not and is not allowed. He must remain arm's length from any legal investigation. He has no legal right to initiate or use his office to pressure sovereign state governments to conduct legal investigations where he has a direct partisan interest which is what he did.

Now we know Ukraine thinks Trump was a paranoid nutcase, placated him, pretended to do an investigation like he asked, and never did so they could get military assistance.

Next, Trump's sons and daughter benefit from his Presidency to augment their businesses and profits and Trump holds them to a different standard than Biden's son. If he truly was concerned about nepotism and family interests why would he hire his son in law? Why does he have his daughter tramping about posing in the white house in some who knows what role while running a business at the same time? Why are his sons making profit in businesses that benefit from clients who give them business because their father is the President?

Have Trump's sons' businesses refused to deal with people they think want favours from his father?

Children of celebrities and politicians don't choose their lot in life, they inherit it. They can then choose to distance themselves from it dramatically or accept it as an inevitable consequence and try figure out whether to use it as a curse or benefit. Whether they use it to break laws or influence peddle is up to a neutral, independent legal body to investigate and decide.

Edited November 9, 2019 by Rue

WestCanMan · November 9, 2019

On 11/8/2019 at 8:58 AM, Cannucklehead said:

I dont have to try to smear trumps character, he does that by himself.

Sweet platitude dude. You're really bringin' it.

WestCanMan · November 9, 2019

On 11/8/2019 at 9:28 AM, Cannucklehead said:

He should not be held to the same standards as anyone else, he should be held to a higher one. His behaviour lessens the position he holds and makes it more of a clown show.

This is one of your more salient points. Trump does need to be held to a higher standard than pretty much everyone (only the royal family, with fake hereditary jobs are held to a higher standard), but the Secretary of State and VPOTUS aren't much lower on the totem pole. Not much less is expected of them.

WestCanMan · November 9, 2019

On 11/8/2019 at 12:42 PM, Rue said:

You continue to engage in the absurd argument that Trump being an immoral liar is acceptable because other people lie. What Adolph Hitler did was o.k. because Stalin did it too. How about you step up your game and stop with such absurd attempts to justify Trump being an immoral sack of crap.

He's not an immoral liar. The immoral liars are Schiff, Pelosi, etc.

After two years of Pelosi and Schiff saying that it there was more and more evidence pouring in that Trump colluded with Russia they still had zero. Trump told the truth for two years, Schiff and Pelosi lied that whole time. Who are the actual liars in that scenario Rue? _______________________

Schiff and Pelosi said that we had to believe Dr Ford's testimony but she couldn't name a place or a date and the 4 witnesses that she named said that they didn't witness anything like that. Who lied Rue? _______________

You saw Schiff's interpretation of Trump's phone call transcripts, it was a complete fabrication. To stand there in front of a camera and fabricate a serious accusation like that is the most serious form of lying possible. Even the sleazy Dems had to call that one out, and they're all lower than crap on a snake's belly. Once again, who lied? ___________________

Boges · November 13, 2019

On 11/9/2019 at 6:14 PM, WestCanMan said:

You saw Schiff's interpretation of Trump's phone call transcripts, it was a complete fabrication. To stand there in front of a camera and fabricate a serious accusation like that is the most serious form of lying possible. Even the sleazy Dems had to call that one out, and they're all lower than crap on a snake's belly. Once again, who lied? ___________________

Yeah Trump never exaggerates anything. :lol:

So the GOP defence here is that, Because Taylor didn't hear it from Trump himself (which is not part of the chain of command) his testimony can't be true. Which is absurd.

If Taylor isn't lying and Trump isn't lying, who's getting thrown under the bus?

Edited November 13, 2019 by Boges

godzilla · November 13, 2019

Trump just got hung this morning... you can practically see him swinging from a tree. the Rs got roasted on every count.

WestCanMan · November 13, 2019

1 hour ago, Boges said:

Yeah Trump never exaggerates anything.

So the GOP defence here is that, Because Taylor didn't hear it from Trump himself (which is not part of the chain of command) his testimony can't be true. Which is absurd.

If Taylor isn't lying and Trump isn't lying, who's getting thrown under the bus?

Not sure who Taylor is, but you’re probably conflating “not true” with “not admissible” as evidence. Hearsay isn’t admissible as evidence in any courtroom.

godzilla · November 13, 2019

best to do your own research then just listening to propaganda...

Hearsay in United States law

"One major misconception about the hearsay rule is that hearsay is never admissible in court. While the general rule is that such evidence is inadmissible, there are many exceptions."

you don't know who Taylor is?!

Edited November 13, 2019 by godzilla

OftenWrong · November 14, 2019

Day one should have been a home run, I would think. They didn't even score a point. I suspect Dems have got nothing but smoke and mirrors. A little "slight of hand" argument... oh look there folks, look the other way. This is gonna be fun to watch...

Boges · November 14, 2019

15 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Not sure who Taylor is, but you’re probably conflating “not true” with “not admissible” as evidence. Hearsay isn’t admissible as evidence in any courtroom.

This wasn't a courtroom.

Boges · November 14, 2019

36 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Day one should have been a home run, I would think. They didn't even score a point. I suspect Dems have got nothing but smoke and mirrors. A little "slight of hand" argument... oh look there folks, look the other way. This is gonna be fun to watch...

Oh yeah, testimony that Sondland received a call with Trump and said that Trump is more concerned with Biden than corruption is nothing.

:lol: