America under President Trump

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

And yes...the Gulf War was a stupid war only mitigated by the fact that Iraq's local enemies paid the tab.

It did serve its one true strategic purpose, which was to exorcise Post Vietnam Syndrome.

Unfortunately Vietnam was the thing keeping the Neocons on check, once the Vietnam Demon was slayed, another Vietnam was available as an option.

[bush_cheney2004]

NATO will always seek a reason for post Cold War relevance....Gulf War...Kosovo...A-stan....Libya, but Trump doesn't play the game the same as in the past.

So he clashes with DC and the Pentagon.     Trump is neither a hawk or a dove.

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

NATO will always seek a reason for post Cold War relevance....Gulf War...Kosovo...A-stan....Libya, but Trump doesn't play the game the same as in the past.

So he clashes with DC and the Pentagon.     Trump is neither a hawk or a dove.

In the end, the Balance of Terror is still in effect.

The purpose of NATO is to stave off a breach on a trace in Europe which would escalate to the threshold of a counterforce or nuclear deescalation.

The Cold War may have been officially ended, but nobody told the nukes, WOPR is still fighting the war, nobody ever stood Skynet down.

[bush_cheney2004]

Bill Clinton told Chretien "hell no" when he wanted 50 American APCs and heavy airlift into Rwanda.   That's what happens when you pay for "free health care" instead of a decent military.   NATO wanted no part of that after Somalia....General Dallaire still has nightmares about that.

Clinton got hammered for the Rwandan genocide, so he supported the Kosovo War (but air campaign only).  

Trump won't fall for that either.

 

Edited September 10, 2019 by bush_cheney2004

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Bill Clinton told Chretien "hell no" when he wanted 50 American APCs and heavy airlift into Rwanda.   That's what happens when you pay for "free health care" instead of a decent military.   NATO wanted no part of that after Somalia....General Dallaire still has nightmares about that.

Clinton got hammered for the Rwandan genocide, so he supported the Kosovo War (but air campaign only).  

Trump won't fall for that either.

Rwanda would have been the same as Somalia, you go in under the rubric of the Humanitarian Pixie dust, when you get there you find out that there are no good guys.

The Tutsis were the collaborators with the Belgians in the Congo.  The hatred of them was incited by European slavery.

Once Canadian boots got on the ground to save the Tutsis, they quickly would have found themselves fighting the Hutus.

Kobayahi Maru.

[Dougie93]

Empire of Liberty.  Manifest Destiny.  Pax Americana.  Freedom of Navigation.

Strategic power flows from the sea, rule the waves to rule the world, never get out of the boat unless you are going all the way.

 

[kactus]

32 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

???   I said the exact opposite...Trump campaigned in 2016 on no more stupid (expensive) wars.  

And yes...the Gulf War was a stupid war only mitigated by the fact that Iraq's local enemies paid the tab.

Ok. It’s clear!

56 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

No need to argue at all....Trump said he would not engage in more stupid wars like George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, and Barack Hussein Obama...and  so far he hasn't. 

 

When you wrote the above I thought you were implying that Trump’s no engagement in wars is exactly the same stance both Bush have taken.

I still think the allies invasion of Kuwait was a strategic move and Margaret Thatcher played a pivotal role in engaging the US to defeat Saddam. US got rewarded handsomely by the Arabs...

[kactus]

31 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

NATO will always seek a reason for post Cold War relevance....Gulf War...Kosovo...A-stan....Libya, but Trump doesn't play the game the same as in the past.

So he clashes with DC and the Pentagon.     Trump is neither a hawk or a dove.

Oddly enough the balkanisation of The former Yugoslavia pretty much resembles the balkanisation of Iraq by Bush Junior into Sunni, Shia and the Kurds. 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, kactus said:

Oddly enough the balkanisation of The former Yugoslavia pretty much resembles the balkanisation of Iraq by Bush Junior into Sunni, Shia and the Kurds. 

 

Less that and more of the Cold War collapse and loss of the Soviet Union in a polarized world.   Now it a free for all.

And they called it a "peace dividend"....hardly.

[Dougie93]

The assertion that America is in the ME for the oil is a myth.

First off, America doesn't need to sit on the oil, America controls the flow of oil from the sea,

Second, the countries with the oil have to get it to market, if they don't, they collapse.

So America is in control of the oil from offshore at all times,

The rubric to be in the ME is the Carter Doctrine.

The Carter Doctrine is just a rebranding of the Domino Theory.

[bush_cheney2004]

10 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

The assertion that America is in the ME for the oil is a myth.

First off, America doesn't need to sit on the oil, America controls the flow of oil from the sea,

 

True....what the Know Nothings have never understood is that the world's hydrocarbon economy is very dependent on ME oil as one of many sources.   Europe and Japan are far more dependent on it than the USA.   Dick Cheney explained this over 15 years ago....so did Hollywood in 1976:

 

 

TV News is show biz, and Trump understands that better than any of his opponents.

Edited September 10, 2019 by bush_cheney2004

[Dougie93]

The inflection point was the Iranian Revolution in 1979.

That is where and when the enemy shifted from being Godless Communist to Islamic Terrorists.

Like the Communist Bloc rubric, the Terrorists are treated as if they are a monolith too.

The Dominoes will fall one by one to the Terrorists, if Jimmy Cartuh doesn't stop them.

In actual fact, like the Communists, the terrorists are not a monolith, so will actually all just start fighting with each other, as they have since America pulled out of Iraqi-Nam.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Dougie93 said:

The inflection point was the Iranian Revolution in 1979.

That is where and when the enemy shifted from being Godless Communist to Islamic Terrorists.

 

The godless communists were far more logical, and could be reasoned with.

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, Boges said:

NOAA did release that report. And Trump did trot out that doctored map. It's an objective fact.  

It's astonishing where News is only relevant from certain sources now. It's a really sad indictment of political discourse. If a news source I trust don't report it, it didn't happen. 

So, some of their initial reports said that Alabama might get part of the storm, Trump tweeted that Alabama might get part of the storm, what's the problem?

There was more than one report. There were dozens of them, it was being updated all the time.

This isn't a scandal, it's a joke. 

I'll tell you straight up that I will never "just believe" anything that I see on CNN, and that's not because I am biased against them, it's because I've only known them to lie or spin or misrepresent or omit, etc. They don't ever try to tell the whole, honest truth. That's a fact whether you like to admit it or not.

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

The godless communists were far more logical, and could be reasoned with.

The terrorists are far more prone to internecine warfare, no need to wipe the terrorists out, they will wipe each other out for you.

 

[Dougie93]

Look at the theater right now; they are all fighting with each other, it's one big terrorist on terrorist killing ground, all the terrorists killing each other, plus Mr Ivan is sticking his nose in.

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." ~ Bonaparte

[Dougie93]

Even the rubric for going into Afghanistan, that it was the place that the 9-11 attack emanated from?

Not true,

The attack came by way of Yemen through Indonesia and the NSA had them tracked all the way.

The failure was in the hand off from the NSA to the FBI, the NSA did the job, the FBI sat on it and did nothing.

[bush_cheney2004]

Maybe Trump will select Condoleezza Rice to replace Bolton....

 

Condoleezza Rice Backs Trump in Cancelling Taliban Camp David Peace Deal Meeting: 'Whatever the Reason, It Was a Good Decision'

https://www.newsweek.com/condoleezza-rice-backs-donald-trump-cancelling-taliban-camp-david-peace-deal-meeting-good-decision-1458413

[Dougie93]

Not that I don't like Condi, I like Condi, she's a patriot, but the Taliban situation seems to be classic Trump negotiating strategy, which is bluffing.

I don't think the Taliban are going to be moved by it, although the Counterleadership operation Pompeo has embarked on is surely killing a lot of Talibs.

Thing about the Talibs tho, the main thing that outrages them is drug dealers and Bacha Bazi child rapists, so the Taliban will never quit on that anymore than we would.

[Dougie93]

So again, Afghanistan can be an economy of force operation, there is no strategic imperative to keep 14,000 troops in there.

This is a job for JSOC.

LHA in the Indian Ocean with F-35B on stand by. 

Bombers at Diego Garcia backing that up.

The only AQ target in the whole country was Tarnak Farms.

If JSOC needs to take one of those out, they can Neptune Spear that shit.

If they need firepower they've got plenty of fast air on call.

Stand off, ISR, watch and shoot, from the sea.

 

[bush_cheney2004]

GOP keeps House seat in North Carolina....the Trump magic still works:

 

Quote

FAYETTEVILLE, N.C. — The Latest on the special election for a North Carolina congressional seat (all times local):

10:10 p.m.

A Republican who aligned himself closely with President Donald Trump has won a do-over North Carolina congressional election forced after findings of ballot fraud last year.

http://www.startribune.com/the-latest-biden-and-buttigieg-weigh-in-on-tight-nc-race/559947032/

 

 

[Dougie93]

13 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

GOP keeps House seat in North Carolina....the Trump magic still works:

I think it's more about the Democrats, they are such a bunch of America bashing trannies, commies, and crybabies, that all you have to say is "America First" and you win the elections.

[Yzermandius19]

11 hours ago, Boges said:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/10/politics/trump-john-bolton-out/index.html

Don't tow the line on your boss trying to invite terrorists to Camp David for a Photo Op. . . YOU'RE FIRED!!

What a clown show. 

He fired Bolton for being a warmonger that wants to bomb Iran and stay in Afghanistan, and you attack him for it. TDS is a helluva drug, everything Trump does is wrong to these people.

Wanh, Trump doesn't want to start another war or stay in pointless wars, Wanh! What a clown show.

Funniest part is the Trump Haters used to be anti-war, but all of a sudden, if Trump doesn't want to fight a pointless war that they used to rail against, then not invading everyone means Orange Man Bad.

Y'all are crazy. As clubby would say, undercover hack b*tches.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[WestCanMan]

4 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

but the Taliban situation seems to be classic Trump negotiating strategy, which is bluffing.

In Syria Trump stepped back America’s stated goal of ousting Assad and the Syrians took that for a sign of weakness. They gassed some folks, Trump got a chance to use some shiny toys on them. 

Now Trump is showing the Taliban that he’s willing to negotiate with them. They’re stepping up attacks. 

I think this Taliban negotiation thing may be a ruse. It’s just to get another chance for Trump to use some big-ass toys. 

[Dougie93]

10 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

In Syria Trump stepped back America’s stated goal of ousting Assad and the Syrians took that for a sign of weakness. They gassed some folks, Trump got a chance to use some shiny toys on them. 

Now Trump is showing the Taliban that he’s willing to negotiate with them. They’re stepping up attacks. 

I think this Taliban negotiation thing may be a ruse. It’s just to get another chance for Trump to use some big-ass toys. 

The Americans are leaving, this is just the usual Peace With Honor slow withdraw process Washington prefers.

It's like, the Americans quit Vietnam in 1968, Johnson quit, they called for peace talks,  but it took them until 1973 to complete the withdrawal.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Dougie93