America under President Trump

[Dougie93]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

I guess gun control restrictions don't actually make Canada any safer despite claims to the contrary of Eskimo Communists to the contrary, who knew?

Canada is spotty.   Where the urbane elites live, it's quite safe, on the fringes of the racist apartheid state, not so much.

[GostHacked]

40 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

It's not that much easier to get a gun in New York than it is in Ontario, anyone who told you otherwise is misinformed or flat out lying.

Our backgroud checks that are done by the RCMP and they call the friends of people who are applying for any firearms permits.  I don't see even that much happening in the USA. So yes our laws make it a bit more problematic for people who want to own firearms legally. Then there is how they need to be stored in Ontario. That's a hassle and a half.

Don't accuse others of lying if you cannot provide a requested cite to back up your claim.

How it is done in Ontario (and Canada for that matter)

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/form-formulaire/index-eng.htm

And here it is for NYC.

https://www.ny.gov/services/apply-firearms-license

There are some similarities. But gun control is done on the state level in the USA where Canada does it on the federal level.  This is why people from NY can go else where and get a gun without any of that stuff they need to put up with in their own state.  Get some consistency in that across the board and progress might be made with some real gun control on the federal level.

[Yzermandius19]

4 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Our backgroud checks that are done by the RCMP and they call the friends of people who are applying for any firearms permits.  I don't see even that much happening in the USA. So yes our laws make it a bit more problematic for people who want to own firearms legally. Then there is how they need to be stored in Ontario. That's a hassle and a half.

Don't accuse others of lying if you cannot provide a requested cite to back up your claim.

How it is done in Ontario (and Canada for that matter)

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/form-formulaire/index-eng.htm

And here it is for NYC.

https://www.ny.gov/services/apply-firearms-license

There are some similarities. But gun control is done on the state level in the USA where Canada does it on the federal level.  This is why people from NY can go else where and get a gun without any of that stuff they need to put up with in their own state.  Get some consistency in that across the board and progress might be made with some real gun control on the federal level.

The FBI does more through background checks than the RCMP by several orders of magnitude, you are misinformed. It being done on state level isn't that big of a difference, most of the gun deaths in New York don't come from guns sold in other states with lesser regulations and brought into New York, they come from New York, and a lot of them are illegal sales that would be illegal in any state. Distinction without a difference.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

I had absolutely no problem passing my background check.  Mind you I didn't have any problems acquiring a security clearance neither.

Don't let the background check waylay you, it's quite rudimentary.

[GostHacked]

8 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Well I am not a fan of the police state when it comes to infringing on the fourth or second amendments. Some of the anti-gun lefties around here might be cool with using the police state to restrict the second amendment rights of Americans, but I'm not.

Infringing on the second and fourth amendments are exactly what the PATRIOT ACT and the NDAA did. I think parts of them are still in place but mostly have expired by now.

It also seems that a lot of these new mass shooters in the US have legally obtained their weapons.

[Yzermandius19]

2 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Infringing on the second and fourth amendments are exactly what the PATRIOT ACT and the NDAA did. I think parts of them are still in place but mostly have expired by now.

It also seems that a lot of these new mass shooters in the US have legally obtained their weapons.

Right and they could illegally obtain them even if they were banned, so how is banning those weapons going to help? It isn't.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[GostHacked]

2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

The FBI does more through background checks the RCMP by several orders of magnitude, you are misinformed.

Then why do more mass shootings happen in the USA compared to anywhere else on the planet? No matter population, ratio, culture, ect.

Did the FBI do background checks on these latest shooters? That would be interesting to see. How did they miss them?

[Yzermandius19]

2 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Then why do more mass shootings happen in the USA compared to anywhere else on the planet? No matter population, ratio, culture, ect.

Did the FBI do background checks on these latest shooters? That would be interesting to see. How did they miss them?

Background checks are not as effective at catching these shooters before they decide to shoot someone as you think they are, that's how. You put way too much faith in RCMP background checks as the reason from less gun violence in Canada.

Even if the criminals started following the laws, the guns that wouldn't be banned are just as lethal, if not more lethal, so that saving isn't saving any lives either.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, GostHacked said:

Then why do more mass shootings happen in the USA compared to anywhere else on the planet?

Because its a revolutionary republic which is actually quite radical by nature, John Brown's body is a molderin' in his grave.

[GostHacked]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

Right and they could illegally obtain them even if they were banned, so how is banning those weapons going to help? It isn't.

It will prevent about 80% of the criminals from going out and getting a gun illegally.  Only the real messed up ones will pursuit it to the end which means no background check at all.

Also, illegally obtaining a weapon is a crime and gets jail time. Nothing really changes there.

[GostHacked]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

Background checks are not as effective at catching these shooters as you think they are, that's how. Even if the criminals started following the laws, the guns that wouldn't be banned are just as lethal, if not more lethal, so that saving isn't saving any lives either.

It's at least a start. You seem resistant to even want to start a process of gun control.

[Yzermandius19]

1 minute ago, GostHacked said:

It will prevent about 80% of the criminals from going out and getting a gun illegally.  Only the real messed up ones will pursuit it to the end which means no background check at all.

Also, illegally obtaining a weapon is a crime and gets jail time. Nothing really changes there.

It will not prevent them from going out and getting a gun illegally, they can still get it whenever they want it. Don't have to be messed up to pursue it.

[GostHacked]

1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

Because its a revolutionary republic which is actually quite radical by nature, John Brown's body is a molderin' in his grave.

By definition, the USA is a constitutional federal republic.

[Yzermandius19]

2 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

It's at least a start. You seem resistant to even want to start a process of gun control.

It's a start that is already in place, and it's still not enough, you want to grab more guns.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Yzermandius19]

Just now, GostHacked said:

By definition, the USA is a constitutional federal republic.

States matter, pretending they don't, is to not understand America.

[GostHacked]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

It will not prevent them from going out and getting a gun illegally, they can still get it whenever they want it. Don't have to be messed up to pursue it.

Illegal activity will still happen yes. That's always going to be an issue if one is not serious about gun control.  Even the USA government hates their own gun laws.

https://www.cnn.com/2013/08/27/world/americas/operation-fast-and-furious-fast-facts/index.html

Quote

(CNN)Here's a look at Operation Fast and Furious. From 2009-2011, the Phoenix Field Division of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), along with other partners, allowed illegal gun sales in order to track the sellers and purchasers, who were believed to be connected to Mexican drug cartels.

Facts:
During the Fast and Furious investigation, nearly 2,000 firearms were illegally purchased for $1.5 million, according to a DOJ inspector General report. Hundreds of guns were later recovered in the United States and Mexico.

In 2010, two of the weapons linked to Fast and Furious turned up near the scene of the murder of US Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry in the Arizona desert.

Whistleblowing led to investigations by the Senate Judiciary Committee and the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee. During the House investigation, Attorney General Eric Holder was cited for contempt.

 

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, GostHacked said:

By definition, the USA is a constitutional federal republic.

Which was born of two revolutions, the shadows of which are cast long across the culture.

It is now and always has been the culture in America to shoot people to solve problems, as opposed to counterrevolutionary Victorian Canada, where that is not the culture.

[Yzermandius19]

America has plenty of gun control already, even if you could have your wish list of new measures you'd like to see implemented be implemented there, America would still have plenty of mass shootings and you would simply want to grab more guns, thinking the only reason your gun control didn't work last time is you didn't go far enough.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[GostHacked]

2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

It's a start that is already in place, and it's still not enough, you want to grab more guns.

This talking point is classified as 'basic'.  Not even a rebuttal of anything.

2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

States matter, pretending they don't, is to not understand America.

The application of state gun laws are not consistent. This is why certain areas are more susceptible to gun violence.

[GostHacked]

2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

America has plenty of gun control already, even if you could have your wish list of new measures you'd like to see implemented be implemented there, America would still have plenty of mass shootings and you would simply want to grab more guns, thinking the only reason your gun control didn't work last time is you didn't go far enough.

Do you want more mass shootings in the USA?

[Yzermandius19]

1 minute ago, GostHacked said:

Do you want more mass shootings in the USA?

Of course not. But your proposed gun control measures won't reduce them, or reduce the kill count. You are treating a symptom and not the disease, your result will suck accordingly.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[GostHacked]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

Of course not. But your proposed gun control measures won't reduce them, or reduce the kill count. You are treating a symptom and not the disease, your result will suck accordingly.

So how would you propose that this problem gets solved?

[Yzermandius19]

3 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

The application of state gun laws are not consistent. This is why certain areas are more susceptible to gun violence.

False, the areas that are more susceptible to gun violence aren't more susceptible to it because of gun laws from other states being less strict, that is not where most of the gun violence is coming from.

[Yzermandius19]

10 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

So how would you propose that this problem gets solved?

You think mass shooters are just going to go away if people just try to solve it? What's next, is poverty going to get solved in this dream world of yours? All crime in general will vanish, if governments just implement the right regulations?

Lulz. Government policy ain't going to solve this dude, wrong tool for the wrong job. If government policy is the only tool you have, and you insist on using it despite it's unsuitability to the task, you aren't helping reduce the problem, you're exacerbating it.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[GostHacked]

8 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

You think mass shooters are just going to go away if people just try to solve it? What's next, is poverty going to get solved in this dream world of yours? All crime in general will vanish, if governments just implement the right regulations?

Lulz. Government policy ain't going to solve this dude, wrong tool for the wrong job. If government policy is the only tool you have, you aren't helping reduce the problem, you're exacerbating it.

Alright, no proposal, meaning you don't have a solution, nor does it seem you want one. I'll move on.