Fort McMurray wildfire

[dre]

I'm not whining about paying for their losses although I admit to some mixed feelings (as I always do when it comes to uninsured people - but in the end I "enable" them by giving a donation...).

I am wondering where the "right" wing people are who demand this sort of thing under different circumstances.

Even if everyone WAS insured, we could easily end up paying. Insurance companies often cant weather large clusters of claims... and if they go bankrupt it will be BAILOUT time.

[BC_chick]

Personally, I don't really care how badly these people treated the earth or whether they believed in human-caused GW. When a catastrophe like this happens I don't think it's really time for politics (msj, I don't think NR's death could be labelled a catastrophe so the comparison isn't very apt).

My thoughts are with all of them.

Edited May 4, 2016 by BC_chick

[Boges]

So next major Hurricane that kills a bunch of people his, is member waldo going to spike the football and be like SEEE!!!!

[overthere]

I addressed the wildfire and related climate change facets contributing to it... thanks for, in kind, highlighting the impact on carbon release and reinforcing the number of current provincial wildfires. It certainly calls to attention the early start... earliest?... of wildfires. Good on ya.

.

How much?

[overthere]

Even if everyone WAS insured, we could easily end up paying. Insurance companies often cant weather large clusters of claims... and if they go bankrupt it will be BAILOUT time.

Not to worry, Alberta wants SFA from you.

[?Impact]

Here is a false colour image from NASA's Operational Land Imager on Landsat 8 satellite. This was taken about noon hour yesterday, and the fire has spread considerably since then, but it will give you an idea of the magnitude of this fire.

http://eoimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/images/imagerecords/87000/87985/mcmurray_oli_2016124_swir_lrg.jpg

As best as I can tell, Landsat 8 will not be in the same position to update that photo until May 19th. Landsat 7 will be there in a weeks time, but it does not have the same imager so the different photo would result.

Edited May 4, 2016 by ?Impact

[poochy]

It's a relatively small fire that happened in the worse place, it's nothing compared to the fires in the NWT 2 years ago.

[poochy]

Provided you're a fanatic with no sense of human empathy, proportion, context or social skills, then yes.

Yes, a fanatic, and someone who knows little to nothing about the subject, it's a perfect time for those people to speak.

[poochy]

To get a sense of the size of this fire, consider that its only burned parts of the city, and then look at this image http://worldview.earthdata.nasa.gov/?p=geographic&l=VIIRS_SNPP_CorrectedReflectance_TrueColor(hidden),MODIS_Aqua_CorrectedReflectance_TrueColor(hidden),MODIS_Terra_CorrectedReflectance_TrueColor,Reference_Labels(hidden),Reference_Features(hidden),Coastlines&t=2014-08-20&v=-117.903409626157,59.93793969541184,-109.465909626157,64.30170922666184

Those dark, almost purple patches were fires that burned in 2014, some of them are 50 or 60 miles wide, there are dozens of them large enough to cover any major city, there are historical reports of fires that covered much of the prairies in one summer, but a small fire in the wrong place, and the sad global warming fanatic tries to take advantage, what a surprise.

[Big Guy]

This topic should really go to the Federal Politics Section.

There have been no casualties at this point and the immediate effort is to save lives.

Mcmurray is now empty except for firefighters. I do not think it is too early to look for answers.

About 90,000 Canadians have had to be evacuated because of a forest fire. Not an alien invasion, not a tornado, not a sudden fire hurricane. It is a forest fire.

Canada is a country of trees - lots of trees. There are trees in every province. It is hot, very hot.

I cannot accept the excuse that this was an unforeseen tragedy.

We are not a third world nation where there is no coordination between parts of government where confusion can take place when something unexpected happens.

Somebody screwed up here.

I think it is time to start to point fingers and certainly come up with a plan where this cannot happen again.

[Guest]

This topic should really go to the Federal Politics Section.

There have been no casualties at this point and the immediate effort is to save lives.

Mcmurray is now empty except for firefighters. I do not think it is too early to look for answers.

About 90,000 Canadians have had to be evacuated because of a forest fire. Not an alien invasion, not a tornado, not a sudden fire hurricane. It is a forest fire.

Canada is a country of trees - lots of trees. There are trees in every province. It is hot, very hot.

I cannot accept the excuse that this was an unforeseen tragedy.

We are not a third world nation where there is no coordination between parts of government where confusion can take place when something unexpected happens.

Somebody screwed up here.

I think it is time to start to point fingers and certainly come up with a plan where this cannot happen again.

Agreed, and what the hell is with the Army and the Air Force needing two days to get into gear?

[Derek 2.0]

Agreed, and what the hell is with the Army and the Air Force needing two days to get into gear?

Funding cuts? The question should be posed to the Federal and Provincial governments though.

[kimmy]

I think it is time to start to point fingers and certainly come up with a plan where this cannot happen again.

A plan where this can not happen again?

Should we preemptively relocate all Canadians to areas where there is a low risk of natural disaster?

Should we preemptively bulldoze every woodland area within a certain distance of human habitation?

-k

[Big Guy]

A plan where this can not happen again?

Should we preemptively relocate all Canadians to areas where there is a low risk of natural disaster?

Should we preemptively bulldoze every woodland area within a certain distance of human habitation?

-k

If you consider a forest fire, one of hundreds that we handle every year, as a "natural disaster" then you may have a point.

[kimmy]

So what do you want to do? Bulldoze every forest that's near a town? Bulldoze every town that's near a forest?

-k

[Derek 2.0]

A plan where this can not happen again?

Should we preemptively relocate all Canadians to areas where there is a low risk of natural disaster?

Should we preemptively bulldoze every woodland area within a certain distance of human habitation?

-k

Of course not, but we should question why the Provincial and Federal Government didn't bring outside resources to bear sooner (there is a major army base 4-5 hours drive South in Edmonton), in the case of the GoA further fire fighters and forestry workers to fight the fires and RCMP to evacuate the city faster, and with regards to the Trudeau Government, the armed forces..................we as a country are really lucky that we didn't see a major loss of life along the evacuation route.

Its a disgrace that "evil oil companies" like Syncrude and Shell, combined with private citizens, are currently providing more relief to a city's worth of Canadians then the Governments of Alberta and Canada.

[Big Guy]

So what do you want to do? Bulldoze every forest that's near a town? Bulldoze every town that's near a forest?

-k

No. I would expect that any large habitat which is located in an area with trees, would have a plan which would prevent that habitat from having to be evacuated because of a forest fire. I understand that these forest fires occur quite frequently, have been breaking out since Confederation, and are not generally considered to be "natural disasters".

Your question is silly and unbecoming someone entrusted to supervise silly comments.

I would expect that Alberta and Mcmurray have a plan of how to deal with forest fires when things are very dry and the weather is very hot. I assume that trees drying out and weather being very hot is not an unexpected phenomenon.

Alberta has just declared a provincial emergency - I assume to get access to federal funds.

As to my interest, I live in Ontario. I assume that most of those homes and properties were insured. The insurance companies will pay off. No insurance company is going to go broke but the rest of the customers will pay off the cost through increased premiums.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Big Guy

[kimmy]

So I gather what you're calling for is "they should have a plan to fight fires."

Ok then. Excellent insight.

-k

[Big Guy]

So I gather what you're calling for is "they should have a plan to fight fires."

Ok then. Excellent insight.

-k

And I suppose that you have a greater insight which you choose not to share here? Or have you found yourself on the wrong side of a issue and chose to dismiss opposing views?

[kimmy]

There are professionals whose full-time job is managing forest-fire preparedness. I'm sure the idea of creating "a plan~~~!" is not as revolutionary as you imagine it to be.

Now... how did this happen when there are professionals whose job is to make sure this kind of thing doesn't happen? Who knows. Maybe they misjudged the severity of the situation. Maybe they were unprepared for fires this early in the year. Maybe they just didn't have adequate resources. Maybe they just flat out screwed up.

But the idea that this situation must have happened because nobody ever thought of making a plan is just silly.

-k

[Bonam]

Perhaps there should be automated fire suppression systems all along the boundary between urban areas and surrounding woodlands? Just install a band of sprinklers a kilometer across all throughout the forest around a city? Expensive, but a whole lot less expensive than losing an entire city.

[BubberMiley]

The reality is it was a combination of bad circumstances but particularly the wind that made things get out of control very quickly, and unfortunately firefighters and bureaucrats are not gods that can control the elements of nature.

And the fire would laugh at your puny sprinklers.

[msj]

Even if everyone WAS insured, we could easily end up paying. Insurance companies often cant weather large clusters of claims... and if they go bankrupt it will be BAILOUT time.

I doubt it. The city isn't that big and the insurance companies should have reinsurance contracts in place.

If not, then too bad, no bail outs for them!

Am I right, right wingers, am I right?!?

[msj]

Perhaps there should be automated fire suppression systems all along the boundary between urban areas and surrounding woodlands? Just install a band of sprinklers a kilometer across all throughout the forest around a city? Expensive, but a whole lot less expensive than losing an entire city.

I am hoping this is sarcasm?

[bush_cheney2004]

Maybe this was sarcasm too....something about Karma, climate change, and Feel The Bern (American Bernie Sanders ?):

"Karmic #climatechange fire burns CDN oilsands city #uspoli #FeelTheBern #yql #yyc #yeg #yvr #Toronto #cdnpoli"

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/tom-moffatt-karmic-tweet-1.3567368