US trained afghan soldiers defecting to Taliban

[WestCoastRunner]

I am so disturbed by this latest story. What is going on?

I would love to hear feedback on this. I am certainly not an expert on this but I would like to hear from others that are more aware.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/11/middleeast/afghanistan-helmand-taliban-soldiers/index.html

Edited April 11, 2016 by WestCoastRunner

[Hudson Jones]

Failure after failure. Is there a good example of them making a positive difference in a country? Perhaps it's time to change the foreign policy.

[GostHacked]

Ah yes another Mission Accomplished.

[Hal 9000]

They might just as well have been trained by Canadians - and maybe some of them were. This is what happens when you stay in a country with the idea that you'll train Afghan (or whoever) soldiers to defend themselves.

This isn't the first time this has happened and certainly won't be the last.

[Derek 2.0]

Little different then the results of Canada's training of several African armies (Nigeria, Ghana, Zambia etc) in the 1960s, that in several cases, later went on to overthrow the governments of their nations, or become tools of their State used to oppress their countries people.......inversely, several decades later in the case of the forces from Ghana, we saw one of the few acts of self-sacrifice during the genocide in Rwanda, when unarmed troops from Ghana interjected themselves into a mob butchering women and children, and saved several bus loads of people well losing some of their own force......

The point, like this case with the Afghan troops, is that you will win some and loose some, but the negative actions of some shouldn't be used to paint the entire force........

Edited April 12, 2016 by Derek 2.0

[Army Guy]

Well, perhaps it your time to step up to the plate then, and try something....anything except chirping on how bad the other guys did.....I know... not how you role....

[CITIZEN_2015]

I don't know much about politics in these regions but the innocent civilian casualties on Afghans may have played a role in this sad event. It looks like in the air raids many thousands of Afghan civilians have been mistakenly killed. Well all these people have relatives to avenge their deaths. Also religion runs deeply in Afghans' blood. So many of these defectors may feel closer to Taliban than Americans. Not to mention that 15 years is now past the Taliban so maybe many of their brutalities and atrocities committed by Taliban have been forgotten or not even seen by younger Afghan soldiers so they maybe fooled by their propaganda and see them as fighters for independence?

[Moonlight Graham]

Well it's a civil war many decades old. When you're getting shot at and your comrades are dying around you, and you gotta get paid in order to eat, I can see why some people switch to another side that looks like a better option for them. We're talking one of the very poorest countries in the world.

From the OP article:

Death is not the only reason the Afghan army is losing troops: Desertion is rife within the ranks.

CNN met two deserters in Helmand whose stories show the breadth of the problem, who have taken their skills -- months of U.S. taxpayer-funded training -- to the Taliban.

"I did 18 months of army training and took an oath to serve this country," one deserter said. "But the situation changed. The army let us down, so we had to come to the Taliban, who treat us like guests."

The two men still had their old uniforms, army IDs, and even the bank cards they used to withdraw their official wages.

"I decided to leave the army when my dead and injured comrades lay in our base, and nobody took them to hospital. My army training is very useful now, as I am training Taliban fighters with the same knowledge."

Edited April 12, 2016 by Moonlight Graham

[Big Guy]

This just serves to reinforce the fact that the West just not understand the people in the Middle East. We walk in with our expectations and our best intentions having no idea of the society with which we are trying to change.

Rather than to throw out another 20,000 words trying to tie in the problems with our stupid expectations perhaps it is time to allow events to give us the lesson.

These folks major priority is survival. They are not part of some experiment of applying a 20th century social order on a 17th century population and have the option of going home. They are home. They see the death of their family members daily. They don't know democracy from Disneyland.

We could send more of our people in there to get killed and more $billions - and these locals will again switch back to being the good guys on our side - until we leave again.

As to chirping about what a mistake Afghanistan was for Canadians it may help in not repeating that same mistake in Iraq and Syria and Libya and Yemen and ... If it is not too late.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Big Guy

[Army Guy]

I don't know much about politics in these regions but the innocent civilian casualties on Afghans may have played a role in this sad event. It looks like in the air raids many thousands of Afghan civilians have been mistakenly killed. Well all these people have relatives to avenge their deaths. Also religion runs deeply in Afghans' blood. So many of these defectors may feel closer to Taliban than Americans. Not to mention that 15 years is now past the Taliban so maybe many of their brutalities and atrocities committed by Taliban have been forgotten or not even seen by younger Afghan soldiers so they maybe fooled by their propaganda and see them as fighters for independence?

lets run with your idea for a second, if 90 % of all Afghanis are killed by Taliban forces....and im using your logic here would there not be a massive uprising again'st them.....

As for the younger generation not knowing the struggle, they have been in conflict for 40 plus years, every man, women, child, dog, goat, has known nothing but conflict.....

[Army Guy]

Moonlight Graham :

Hit the nail on the head, With the withdrawal of so many NATO countries from the region, along with they're funding....things are not looking good, even when they had the funding their government was very tardy on paying their troops....

Being a soldier in Afghan offers steady employment that is desperately needed in the region, but if they don't get paid regularly, and the bad guys offer a better pay check, that they need to feed their families...

[The_Squid]

Canada cut and run before the mission was actually accomplished. Another Harper government legacy.

[Rue]

Canada cut and run before the mission was actually accomplished. Another Harper government legacy.

Yah so Justin will be sending the troops back right.

[Rue]

Shoulda woulda coulda, the terrorist apologists for the Taliban now come on this thread with hindsight and expertise garnered from Wikepedia and Mummy's basement.

Afghanistan has been a feudal and very basic nation since its inception. Its very geography prevents it from ever beng ruled by a central government.

The mujahadeen later to be renamed Taliban were simple Afghanis defending their nation from colonial invaders whether it be British, Russian, etc.

Somewhere along the line The Soviets and US infiltrated the mujahadeen for their own political reasons and Muslim outsiders flooded into Afghanistan based in KGB and CIA funded mercenary units fighting against the Russians or Americans.

Canada went into Afghanistan with the naive notion it could bring Western values to this country, i.e., liberate its women, create an economy based on something other than heroin.

Didn't work.

Canadian soldiers came home with ptsd from constantly being targetted for land mines or sniper shots or from witnessing rampant pedophile rape of boys and girls.

Now we have the arm chair geniuses crowing how it did not work. Of course any fool can engage in a Beavis and Butthead routine giggling and blurting "yah yah" at the failure and I now ask and no I am not as diplomatic as Army Guy, what do those who after the fact can point out what did not work, what do they have to offer?

Will they discuss the current situation in Afghanistan. No of course not.

Well? Oh hey here's how it works...you damn Westerners as Big Guy calls you (hey now what is he-well he claims he is a member of the Canadian Legion)...you failed...all of you because you are ignorant.

Not Big Guy, he understands. He's got insights as to the Muslim psyche in Afghanistan you read his post, he knows and knew better.. He knows none of you Westerners should have got involved.

Afghanistan should be left alone. See when women were treated as second class garbage, when men were men and boys sre convenient masterbation devices, things are swell. When Afghanistan is run by corrupt regimes conjoined to extremist Muslim beliefs things sre hunky dory and you know why-why because they are independent and Muslim. Their way is just fine. Keep your Western ways to yourself. There's nothing wrong with pedophilia and enslaving women. Back off.

Who needs the damn West. I mean come on all the West does is spread diabetes through Coca Cola.

Never mind Afghanistan floods the West with heroin-you don't get to say a thing.

Well bottom line is, NATO, the Soviets, no one at any time in history could defeat the mujahadeen-they use the geography of the country to their advantage understanding no one can rule it and at best you can only control pockets in plateaus between the mountain ridges whIch get picked off by people coming from and retrieving back into the mountains.

Bottom line, Afghanis and only Afghanis have to want to change their behaviour but as long as they subscribe to their form of Muslim religion, pedophilia and brutal treatment of women and non believers will continue.

Bottom line, the anti Westerners on this post won't admit they have no alternatives to offer Afghanistan and in fact gloat over pedophiles and brutal rapists running Afghanistan and flooding our streets with heroin simply because they see it as a victory of Muslims over non Muslims. No more, no less. That's how they reduce what happened.Let's call the pathetic cheerleading for what is beneath it.

I commend the soldiers for trying.

I directly criticize NATO and the Soviets and the UN for propping Carsayaa corrupt puppet fronting his brother's heroin cartel.

The West got into bed with heroin cartel drug lords to try maintain control of Afghanistan instead of dealing directly with the Taliban.

The true Taliban, the Taliban not born outside the country and who are not Muslim terrorists from all kinds of Muslim countries, they practice a type of Islam that is basic, brutal, but it did actually clap down on the poppy growers.

The US screwed up propping factions of Muslim extremist mercenaries they paid to infiltrate and dominate the Taliban. The US was short sighted in getting into bed with terrorists because at the time they were fighting the Russians. Of course they would turn on the US after they were done with the Russians just like the mercenaries in Libya turned on the US once Ghaddafi was gone.

You get into bed with terrorists, they turn on you. Just ask the late Osama Boo Boo Ben Laden . the late Moe Ghaddafi, the late Sadam Hussein.

By the way one of you Taliban apologists break it to Big Guy the Taliban detest Iran and everything it stands for.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Rue

[GostHacked]

Shoulda woulda coulda, the terrorist apologists for the Taliban now come on this thread with hindsight and expertise garnered from Wikepedia and Mummy's basement.

Who are the terrorist apologists???

[Big Guy]

Afghanistan continues to be torn apart. Anybody still believe that Canadian involvement was beneficial to these people?

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/04/death-toll-doubles-huge-bomb-attack-kabul-160420093808072.html

Kerry is asking the Taliban to please come back to the negotiating table. It looks like they may not need to negotiate but may end up winning militarily.

Wow - Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, Libya ares suffering the effects of Western intervention into things that were none of our business.

Will we ever learn?

[Big Guy]

So those American folks who incinerated 42 innocent and unarmed Afghanistan people in a hospital might get a letter of reprimand. That will teach them!!

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_AFGHANISTAN_HOSPITAL_ATTACK?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-04-29-12-36-41

"Investigators concluded that certain personnel failed to comply with the rules of engagement and the law of armed conflict. However, they also determined that these failures did not amount to a war crime, he said."

That is comforting coming from a military investigative team.

So the result is "OOPS!" If they were not in that place at that time being looked after by those doctors then they would not have been killed. They obviously should shoulder some of the blame.

Now some people might feel that the number of 42 is rather large but they are, after all, Afghanistan folks (and probably Muslims). Are they not? I wonder what the equivalent would be in American folks?

Edited April 29, 2016 by Big Guy