Wilber Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 We've gone form a society where political correctness came from a genuine desire not to insult others, to a society that is increasingly making up ways to be insulted, so they can complain about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 14 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: Bonham mentioned shutting down the debate. It sounded like he was trying to describe something unreasonable. I wanted to know what the debate is, and how they shut it down. If there is a conspiracy afoot, and people here know their methods then we are obliged to reveal them. Like Islamists I assume. There is no debate, because it is always shut down before it can even happen. But what would the debate be about? All the aspects of social justice crap that we see at universities. Safe spaces. Microaggressions. Trigger warnings. Bathrooms and pronouns. Affirmative action. Rape culture. Patriarchy. Institutionalized racism. White privilege. Voice your disagreement with the prescribed view on issues like this and you will be seen as the enemy and met with insults, ostracism, hatred, and in many cases official disciplinary action. For example, look at the torrent of insults cybercoma is unleashing on TimG in this thread for questioning the need for dozens of made up pronouns... and here it's just cybercoma, but on campuses it is the entire weight of the establishment that targets anyone who strays from the path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 52 minutes ago, Bonam said: For example, look at the torrent of insults cybercoma is unleashing on TimG in this thread for questioning the need for dozens of made up pronouns... and here it's just cybercoma, but on campuses it is the entire weight of the establishment that targets anyone who strays from the path. Here's what that innocent snowflake TimG said which set off cybercoma: Quote The issue is arrogant a**holes who think they can make up new words and force other people to use them. It takes a special kind of narcissist to believe they are entitled to special pronouns. But yeah, sure, it was all cybercoma trying to shut down the debate using insults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 Because yeah, language is this completely static concept with no room for evolving and reflecting the times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted November 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, BC_chick said: Because yeah, language is this completely static concept with no room for evolving and reflecting the times. I don't think language evolves through mandatory edicts from Universities forcing people to use certain pronouns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 Just now, Boges said: I don't think language evolves through mandatory edicts from Universities forcing people to use certain pronouns. Language as it pertains to respect and equality evolves through social revolutions and this is just one form of it. Feudal system titles, using n-word or 'boy', all these things went into the dustbin of time the same way duality of gender will one day end up in the same dust bin while some of you fight on the wrong side of history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted November 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, BC_chick said: Language as it pertains to respect and equality evolves through social revolutions and this is just one form of it. Feudal system titles, using n-word or 'boy', all these things went into the dustbin of time the same way duality of gender will one day end up in the same dust bin while some of you fight on the wrong side of history. Those words certainly didn't become unacceptable in polite company because some University administrator sent out a memo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 6 minutes ago, Boges said: Those words certainly didn't become unacceptable in polite company because some University administrator sent out a memo. Yes, because every social revolution happens in the exact same manner as all the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has. -Margaret Mead Edited November 21, 2016 by BC_chick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) 39 minutes ago, BC_chick said: Feudal system titles, using n-word or 'boy', all these things went into the dustbin of time the same way duality of gender will one day end up in the same dust bin while some of you fight on the wrong side of history. No, the "n-word" (i.e. "nigger", "nigga", "niggaz", etc.) and "boy" only went into the dustbin for certain social contexts, not general usage. The words are still quite popular and in regular usage for personal communications, terms of endearment, self segregation, literature, song lyrics, etc., by the very people they are intended to disparage. History doesn't have any sides. Edited November 21, 2016 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 We need more first person and second person pronouns to reflect the diversity in third person pronouns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, BC_chick said: Language as it pertains to respect and equality evolves through social revolutions and this is just one form of it. This is not a social revolution. It is temper tantrum by infantile narcissists who think they are "special" and deserve special pronouns to match their egos. If this was simply about changing the language to reflex the complexities of biology we would be talking about exactly one additional pronoun - or the elimination of 'she/her' pronoun like they eliminated the feminine form of job titles like 'actress'. Edited November 21, 2016 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 No it's about a professor who has stated he refuses to use any pronouns other than gendered ones assigned by birth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 18 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: What is'the debate' ? Are we going to admit that universities infantalise students and turn them into weepy, whiny, entitled people who need safe zones to keep away from opinions which they disagree with. I don't see how the conversation has veered from that of the title of this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) 12 minutes ago, BC_chick said: No it's about a professor who has stated he refuses to use any pronouns other than gendered ones assigned by birth. That is not what he said. Try looking at his words: http://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-friday-edition-1.3786140/i-m-not-a-bigot-meet-the-u-of-t-prof-who-refuses-to-use-genderless-pronouns-1.3786144 He said he will use the pronouns that he think makes sense. I presume that means he would make some judgement based on the look of the person which may have nothing to do with what gender they were assigned at birth. I thought this was an interesting comment: Quote think that the continual careless pushing of people by left wing radicals is dangerously waking up the right wing. So you can consider this a prophecy from me if you want. Inside the collective is a beast and the beast uses its fists. If you wake up the beast then violence emerges. I'm afraid that this continual pushing by radical left wingers is going to wake up the beast. The interview was at at a time when Trump looked like he was headed for defeat. There are a lot of reasons for why Trump won and you can't isolate a single cause. But one contributing factor was a general disgust with the way left wing zealots constantly stake out irrational and nonsensical positions and scream like little children until they get their way. Edited November 21, 2016 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 12 minutes ago, BC_chick said: No it's about a professor who has stated he refuses to use any pronouns other than gendered ones assigned by birth. No, it's about the way the entire university has gone into convulsions of political correctness because a professor decided not to go along with whatever pronoun du jour the entitled social justice warriors come up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 1 minute ago, TimG said: There are a lot of reasons for why Trump won and you can't isolate a single cause. But one contributing factor was a general disgust with the way left wing zealots constantly stake out irrational and nonsensical positions and scream like little children until they get their way. And that Clinton was a friend of such things, while Trump was a foe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 People got really upset when Ms. Was first introduced I remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 12 minutes ago, TimG said: That is not what he said. Try looking at his words: http://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-friday-edition-1.3786140/i-m-not-a-bigot-meet-the-u-of-t-prof-who-refuses-to-use-genderless-pronouns-1.3786144 He said he will use the pronouns that he think makes sense. I presume that means he would make some judgement based on the look of the person which may have nothing to do with what gender they were assigned at birth. Not about gender assigned at birth, but he continues to call professor Peets, 'he'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: People got really upset when Ms. Was first introduced I remember. It at least served a point. It had a logic to it. MR was not definitive as to marital status, so MS wouldn't be either. It was also easy to remember and required no guesswork about what gender an individual had assigned to themselves at that particular time. It also involved 50% of the population, not 0.0004%, or thereabouts. And I doubt the audiences were warned prior to discussions or debates that there were soothing therapists there to help them out afterward if they were too traumatized by the bad words spoken. Edited November 21, 2016 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 Just now, Argus said: It at least served a point. It had a logic to it. MR was not definitive as to marital status, so MS wouldn't be either. It was also easy to remember and required no guesswork about what gender an individual had assigned to themselves at that particular time. It also involved 50% of the population, not 0.0004%, or thereabouts. There was also a lot of 'logic' about keeping gays in the closet and blacks segregated. Hindsight of course is 20/20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) 1 minute ago, BC_chick said: There was also a lot of 'logic' about keeping gays in the closet and blacks segregated. No, there wasn't. And comparing this nonsense to that is... nonsense. It's like comparing my struggle to get the dumb Christmas lights I want to return back into the box to the struggle to build the CN tower. Edited November 21, 2016 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) Call yourself whatever you like... and ask to be called whatever you like... but to mandate it by law or policy or human rights tribunals is a bit much... You can ask and I will happily call you he-she or whatever the pronoun is of your choosing. (To be honest, I have no idea what these "alternate" pronouns even are... they just don't occur in the real world... and I'm not some hick living in the boonies...) How do people like this get jobs once they're done university??? This is a made-up problem. If you're going to university in Canada, you are already better off than 99.9% of the human population on the planet! Edited November 21, 2016 by The_Squid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 3 minutes ago, Argus said: No, there wasn't. And comparing this nonsense to that is... nonsense. It's like comparing my struggle to get the dumb Christmas lights I want to return back into the box to the struggle to build the CN tower. You trivializing the matter only demonstrates MH's point. They trivialized Ms. and now it's 'logical'. They trivialized civil rights and gay rights but now they're 'logical' too. With enough time when trans rights become 'logical', there will also be a lot of people wondering why anyone would put up a fuss about addressing others using the pronouns they so wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, BC_chick said: You trivializing the matter only demonstrates MH's point. They trivialized Ms. and now it's 'logical'. They trivialized civil rights and gay rights but now they're 'logical' too. With enough time when trans rights become 'logical', there will also be a lot of people wondering why anyone would put up a fuss about addressing others using the pronouns they so wish. Show us a law that requires women to be addressed as Ms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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