Israeli War Crimes

bush_cheney2004 · April 7, 2016

...You have a better suggestion? Or are you forcing me to distinctly separate each kind of ethnocentric belief that ties ones belief that their genes and culture require political laws distinctly?

Yes....let's just stay on topic and if you want to go off on a tangent about your multiple definition(s) for nationalism, please start a new thread.

Big Guy · April 7, 2016

The Israeli Zionist government is continuing to squeeze out the Arabic influence in their country. Fourteen years ago, the Israeli Supreme Court ordered Tel Aviv to include Arabic on its street signs. It still has nbot done so:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/04/israel-war-arabic-language-160404102325547.html

Israel's one in five citizens, whose mother tongue is Arabic, are increasingly fearful of using it in public as hostility has mounted towards the language from both officials and the Jewish public, human rights groups warned this week. Also, in recent months, there has been a sharp rise in reports of Palestinian citizens being physically assaulted in Israeli cities, with Jewish mobs roaming the streets shouting "Death to the Arabs".

When are Canadians going to cut all ties with this rogue nation and join most of the rest of the world in condemnation of this Apartheid state?

Argus · April 7, 2016

(1)Descriptions of patriots from the same old Zionist gang.

Like, uh, EVERYONE?

(2)The Protocols will always be up for question as to whether it is true or not.

True. If you're a rational human being with at least a smidgen of education you know they're total bullshit.

If you're an ignorant, shitkicking hillbilly Jew hater who never got out of grade eight and thinks your sister is sexy you probably think they're likely true.

(3)I go to alternative news outlets like RT.com Global Research and the Political Cesspool among others for my news.

News is not what any of them do. Propaganda, fairy tales and race baiting is more like their specialty.

Those sources you mentioned are not trust worthy enough for me to believe. They are a controlled corporate media owned and operated by the Zionist brotherhood.

You think Jews own and control the BBC and CB and so they're not trusthworthy? And instead you cite RT, which is a Russian government propaganda outlet. Do you have any idea what any intelligent person reading that will think of you?

ironstone · April 7, 2016

I hope Canada will continue to stand by the only true democracy in the Middle East.

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.647598

Big Guy · April 7, 2016

Israeli crimes against the Palestinians continue. The Israeli military has tripled its demolitions of Palestinian-owned structures in the occupied territories over the past three months, a United Nations' report says. Figures collated by the UN's office for the coordination of humanitarian affairs (OCHA) - which operates in Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem - show from an average of 50 demolitions a month in 2012-2015, the number rose to 165 since January, with 235 demolitions in February alone:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/04/israel-ramps-demolitions-palestinian-structures-160407140314909.html\

"The UN report on demolitions has alarmed diplomats and human rights groups over what they regard as a sustained violation of international law."

And we Canadians continue to turn a blind eye.

Shame.

taxme · April 7, 2016

91

(1)Everyone becomes an hatemonger or Nazi when one does not kiss their butts. That is why I call them patriots because they won't do just that.

(2)Some of your descriptions about people are quite silly and such childish Zionist talk. Are you a spokesman for them? One does not need to be a college or university graduate to know what they are talking about. Pat Burns of radio talk show fame had only a grade 9 education, but yet that man had a brain like a computer. There was not a subject he could not talk and know about. Finishing ones education only gets one a better job. There are people who are millionaires who didn't finish their education. You don't have to insult people because they did not or were not able to finish their schooling. There are lots of graduates who are as stupid as a door knob. I have met a few of them in my time.

(3)Oh sure, anything but what you listen too are all propaganda news outlets. Shows how much you know. To know one side of the story, is to know nothing at all. I can say the same thing about the news outlets you listen too also. They are nothing but propaganda mouth pieces. Works both ways.

(4)Well, there are Jews that do own some media or are you going to deny that? I watch and listen to the western media, and the alternative media. Only someone who thinks that there is only one true media source, theirs, and that there are no others, shows how one-sided they are. I could easily say that the BBC or CTV or CBC are western government propaganda outlets also. Any intelligent person would have no problem with wanting to get both sides of the story. Only you seem to have a problem with that? I guess this makes me an intelligent person even if I say so myself. Chuckle-chuckle.

PS: Russia is not a Stalinist country anymore. The Russians are gaining more and more freedom every day, while here in North America we seem to be losing ours. The NSA ring a bell?

Scott Mayers · April 7, 2016

Yes....let's just stay on topic and if you want to go off on a tangent about your multiple definition(s) for nationalism, please start a new thread.

Already on topic. I gave a specific definition of this and strongly believe that if we are to repair political problems with issues like this one, it requires to take care with the definitions we use. You've noted your disagreement to what is not, in your opinion, a "war crime", and it doesn't add value when you should be directing this concern towards Big Guy, who titled this thread. Contextually, he is trying to show various problems with the defaulted assumption of Israel to be a fair entity in contrast to the Palestinians as being defaulted to being 'criminal' (as in they are the 'terrorists'). In order to deal with the problems requires expending some effort to understand the words we use differently to describe things on this issue.

bush_cheney2004 · April 8, 2016

Already on topic. I gave a specific definition of this and strongly believe that if we are to repair political problems with issues like this one, it requires to take care with the definitions we use. You've noted your disagreement to what is not, in your opinion, a "war crime", and it doesn't add value when you should be directing this concern towards Big Guy, who titled this thread.

OK...so you don't actually wish to discuss the topic ("Israeli War Crimes"), but rather see this as an opportunity to pursue a discussion about larger "political problems" and "nationalism(s)".

No matter...specific to the actual topic my position is that Israel is no more or less guilty of "war crimes" than peer nation states using military force in pursuit of foreign/domestic policy objectives.

Edited April 8, 2016 by bush_cheney2004

Scott Mayers · April 8, 2016

OK...so you don't actually wish to discuss the actual topic ("war crimes"), but rather see this as an opportunity to pursue a discussion about larger "political problems" and "nationalism(s)".

No matter...specific to the actual topic my position is that Israel is no more or less guilty of "war crimes" than peer nation states using military force in pursuit of foreign/domestic policy objectives.

And why discussing definitions is important. You are appearing to demand "war crimes" to be defined with something legal with respect to some authority you accept. I interpreted the title as necessarily hyperbolic and a clear 'opinion' to be debated with respect to the intent here. It is a 'value' term because with respect to nature, 'crime' has no meaning and so is subject to what each person determines what should or should not BE morally questioned.

Since the subject of moral opinion of what should be considered 'criminal' is at issue, I raised the hypocrisy of what Israel interprets is 'criminal' of the Palestinians in contrast to what they themselves behave. This is relevant and yet you dismiss this based on what? You're belief that Israel or those supporting it have the only right to define who is or is not 'criminal'?

Argus · April 8, 2016

Let me start on the last point. You are implying that I should be looking elsewhere on the declaration that the Muslims were the ones initially at fault here.

They were and remain so.

But the powers of the Western world to profit on the oil going through Kuwait is an example of how the economics of our countries intervene in ways that utilize the propaganda we get that demonize the Muslims based on some apparently unusually 'hostile' set of beliefs.

How has Iraq being partially landlocked got anything whatsoever to do with dar al Islam and the insistence by Muslims that there can be nothing in those lands but a Muslim nation?

Nationalisms arises out of the very forces of economic impoverishment imposed upon people from without or to those exiled from their own lands

Except the concept of dar al Islam far predates western strength or intervention in that region.

Palestinians were exiled by the Jews establishing the 'State of Israel' forcefully and with CLEAR intent to do so.

Contradicted by reality. There are millions of Palestinians still living in Israel proper, with Israeli citizenship and rights.

The Israelis set the president for all that is occurring today as other countries think it best to join in on the same behavior

Dar al Islam is a far older concept than the state of Israel. How do you blame the Israelis for that?

Edited April 8, 2016 by Argus

Argus · April 8, 2016

91

(1)Everyone becomes an hatemonger or Nazi when one does not kiss their butts.

Drivel.

That is why I call them patriots because they won't do just that.

I think you call them patriots because they share your hatred of Jews.

PS: Russia is not a Stalinist country anymore. The Russians are gaining more and more freedom every day, while here in North America we seem to be losing ours. The NSA ring a bell?

That is amazingly stupid. Russia has lost virtually all freedoms.

bush_cheney2004 · April 8, 2016

...Since the subject of moral opinion of what should be considered 'criminal' is at issue, I raised the hypocrisy of what Israel interprets is 'criminal' of the Palestinians in contrast to what they themselves behave. This is relevant and yet you dismiss this based on what? You're belief that Israel or those supporting it have the only right to define who is or is not 'criminal'?

I am not concerned with debates about morality. The legal framework(s) and jurisdiction for such things also dismiss such debate/conjecture as irrelevant compared to findings of fact and legal/illegal policy/enforcement actions.

Hypocrisy is not a crime.

eyeball · April 8, 2016

I hope Canada will continue to stand by the only true democracy in the Middle East.

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.647598

To bad we didn't feel that way back in 1953 towards Iraq, when we started snuffing democracy in the region.

Hey, here's a thought, maybe if we overthrew Israel's democracy the rest of the region wouldn't feel like it was being singled out for special treatment or inconsideration and decide to get with the program instead of resisting it, and us.

Edited April 8, 2016 by eyeball

bush_cheney2004 · April 8, 2016

To bad we didn't feel that way back in 1953 towards the only other true democracy, the one we overthrew.

Nope....in 1953...the Republic of Turkey was a "democracy" (after elections in 1950).

eyeball · April 8, 2016

Quit being such a pedant, you know what I mean.

There I fixed it for ya.

bush_cheney2004 · April 8, 2016

Quit being such a pedant, you know what I mean.

There I fixed it for ya.

Fibs for dramatic effect should be challenged...so I did. Like the Republic of Turkey, Israel lives in a tough neighbourhood.

eyeball · April 8, 2016

Fib? Honest mistake is all. In the meantime, just how democratic is Turkey anyway? Turkey's Erdogan rejects western 'lessons in democracy'

Erdogan's addressed the Turkish Red Crescent in Ankara on Monday in which he angrily rejected western allies' criticism of his authoritarian tendencies.

Erdogan claims fighting terrorism outweighs democracy in Turkey.

Sounds like our kind of guy really - hardly different at all from claims here at home that fighting terrorism outweighs our privacy.

eyeball · April 8, 2016

Fibs for dramatic effect should be challenged...so I did. Like the Republic of Turkey, Israel lives in a tough neighbourhood.

Under the protection of the toughs.

bush_cheney2004 · April 8, 2016

Fib? Honest mistake is all. In the meantime, just how democratic is Turkey anyway?

Just calls 'em likes I sees 'em.....1953 was the reference, and both Israel and Turkey were "democracies" in the region.

So much for that 'theory'.....

eyeball · April 8, 2016

Yes, the reference was to the only ME democracy we overthrew in 1953.

bush_cheney2004 · April 8, 2016

Under the protection of the toughs.

Good enough for Canada...then good enough for Israel.

eyeball · April 8, 2016

Not really. Its like a relay race see - we passed the torch to you then you and Israel fumbled the pass and it landed on the pyre.

Our Empire knew when it was time to quit the game and retire. Your's doesn't.

Bonam · April 8, 2016

That is amazingly stupid. Russia has lost virtually all freedoms.

Lost them? What freedoms has Russia ever had? The Russian people went from being serfs, to being subjects of a tyrannical communist regime, to now being subjects of a semi-tyrannical non-communist regime. At least they have somewhat more economic opportunity now than they used to.

Scott Mayers · April 8, 2016

Let me start on the last point. You are implying that I should be looking elsewhere on the declaration that the Muslims were the ones initially at fault here.
They were and remain so.

Since when? When Islam was formed? 610-632CE?

I'm curious to know precisely when or where you derive the starting point of Israel?

Did you know that Saddam Hussein's Iraq was a non-religious Communist organ? Did you know that the reason they had problems with Iran and Kuwait were about being LANDLOCKED and extorted through being unable to have direct access to the sea? Now these WERE Muslim countries bordering them as much as the makeup of their own people. But the powers of the Western world to profit on the oil going through Kuwait is an example of how the economics of our countries intervene in ways that utilize the propaganda we get that demonize the Muslims based on some apparently unusually 'hostile' set of beliefs.

How has Iraq being partially landlocked got anything whatsoever to do with dar al Islam and the insistence by Muslims that there can be nothing in those lands but a Muslim nation?

The fact that the Muslims all throughout the Middle East have been a problem of most other countries with way more discriminatory power and that the example of Iraq is a good example. We spun it to make Saddam appear as though he attacked Kuwait for simply no reason whatsoever other than that he was some kind of cruel moody despot.

But besides this, you need to also look back through history from the beginning of Islam and seem to forget how the WHOLE of Europe created the Crusades to also demonize and take over those lands. The Muslims had way more hardships in their growth based on arrogances of those like yourself imposing such a standard of 'hatred' to look forward to. Even the Jews, as despised by many as they had, left no room for the Muslim since their inception.

"Dar-al Islam" is a an acceptance of Islam but with a tolerance for non-Muslims, by the way. If you think this is 'wrong' and they preceded the State of Israel, are you admitting the Israeli Jew's own state and its much less 'tolerance' for Muslims representates them as making Israel somehow MORE justified? Please tell me the when the Muslims had it in for the Jews initially. Also, considering the Muslims were there for so long, tell me what makes you think their own evolution was not of the Middle East and to Palestine.

Except the concept of dar al Islam far predates western strength or intervention in that region.

Take a step back to those Crusades. Considering what they went through, what makes them even as remotely tolerant as you suggest they were. You also indiscriminately stack all Arabs as having some common thought of some presumed position.

Palestinians were exiled by the Jews establishing the 'State of Israel' forcefully and with CLEAR intent to do so.
Contradicted by reality. There are millions of Palestinians still living in Israel proper, with Israeli citizenship and rights.

And you ignore the rest, right? You have X population of people who won't or can't fuss in a country purposely designed to favor Jews, but Y population excluded, whom if included democratically, would have ruled there instead. Hmmmm. Kinda reminds me of Gerymandering except you just kick the population that competes with the pluralities among the Jews from participating. But you still have to establish Israel's right to have forcefully designed a country in a country pre-existing. And you can't base it on the prior rule from Turkey as Turkey was NOT the Palestinians and were as much abused by them if you take the dar-el Islam to include their rule. It's called EXPLOITATION.

Dar al Islam is a far older concept than the state of Israel. How do you blame the Israelis for that?

Look up the term. You're using it inappropriately. What does it matter if the Muslims there BEFORE Israel should have had any preference of religion. Does that excuse ANYONE to step in and intolerantly take over with their own brand of intolerance? I don't care for Islam anymore than Judaism nor Christianity and all for similar reasons. The point is that the Muslims were there before and still have relatives and people ALIVE today who are being continuously suffering from contemporary abuses.

Scott Mayers · April 8, 2016

I am not concerned with debates about morality. The legal framework(s) and jurisdiction for such things also dismiss such debate/conjecture as irrelevant compared to findings of fact and legal/illegal policy/enforcement actions.

Hypocrisy is not a crime.

So how are you so sure their is any problem with the Muslims/Palestinians? I mean, if we take your dismissal of hypocrisy as it is convenient to ignore the relevance of an moral highground FOR Israel, than whatever happens happens. They're all winners and losers simultaneously. I just now question who, why, and how you are selecting ANY formal legitimacy whatsoever.

I'm guessing that you're a Christian with only one concern in mind.....that those Jews that you feign to favor are just your utility to get your Christian Armageddon initiated?