DogOnPorch Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 So you got the list of war crimes committed by Israel. I'm glad you won't be asking for the list again. (Right) Now you're deflecting the course and the topic of this thread and playing the "he started it" game, like it makes a difference in committing war crimes. It's always nice to take the opportunity to debunk the myth that Zionist apologists like to spread. Like, "Hamas started it". Here is information on how it was actually Israel who started the 2008-09 Gaza carnage after six months of ceasfire: On November 4, 2008, Israel launched a military incursion into a residential area of Dayr al-Balah in central Gaza. Israel stated its aim was to destroy what it said was a tunnel on the Gaza-Israel border dug by militants to infiltrate into Israel and abduct soldiers, however an Israeli defense official was quoted in the Washington Times acknowledging that Israel wanted to "send Hamas a message."[93] The assault, according to Mark LeVine was unprovoked, and several Hamas members were killed. Don't you get tired of continuously being corrected? Perhaps you should stop repeating Hasbara talking points and give truth a chance. Hamas started hostilities with Israel...not the other way around. There was a time when Israel felt they could work with Hamas as they appeared moderate next to Fatah/PLO/PLA/PFLP. Then the blind sheik was caught running guns to the terrorists and supporting acts of murder and terrorism himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Mayers Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 There is a wide variety of media in the west, and a wide variety of agencies which monitor human rights abuses. It's not hard. When you're dealing with the most frequent media cited here, that being RT (wholly owned by the Russian government, which means Putin) and Al Jazeera (wholly owned by the Qatari government, which means the Emir) It's not difficult to find enormous bias in their reporting. No, I favor democratic states over autocratic states. I don't think I'm unique in that respect. I've already stated that. I apologize if I've missed some comments you've already discussed up front. I disagree with your assumption of what is or is not 'democracy' as this is one of those generic terms that don't actually represent ANY system of government ideally. As to asserting bias, you are likely missing out on the details of other systems through our own propaganda. For instance, "Communist" countries use a system of democracy that demands more people being involved in politics than our trivial vote-once-every-few-years type of government that is not so 'democratic' in kind as we think it is. Government is run by the people in Communist states all the way down to one's work place and include 'interest' organizations. To trust ANY system without skepticism is problematic. So while you may 'trust' bias from other sources, you have to at least recognize some value in these sources but require weeding through the rhetoric to get to the bottom line. Our own CBC has banned 'freedom of speech', for instance, when they moderate (censor) media. This should be sufficient to recognize we too have our problems worthy of questioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Mayers Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 So how do you plan to deal with all those illegal Jews? Do you have a final solution in mind? "Illegal" would not be the operative term here as this is itself confined to some particular government. The German's "final solution", just as Israel's is with the 'question of the Muslims', is as equal in force to their Nationalistic hatreds. The first step is to assure we recognize how our concepts of 'morality' is insignificant to Nature (or people's beliefs in their 'gods') since it is this that gets used to justify 'our' presumptions of righteousness of us versus them. For Israel, this would require remodeling their constitution to be NON-Jewish (but universal), since this creates a default bias to their ingroup and is NOT the 'democratic' ideal you think it is. This would be the absolutely first step required. Regardless of what you could defend of Israel, if this one particular factor remains (Zionism), it defaults to absolute discrimination and is what divides which people get to experience the fruits of 'democracy'. It is NOT democracy if you cannot participate in it universally regardless of ethnicity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 Hamas started hostilities with Israel...not the other way around. Let's see: - I provide a timeline and the actual events that took place - You provide another false information with nothing to back it up, despite the facts shared with you I don't want to say you're hopeless. Let me know when you're interested in talking about the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 Let's see: - I provide a timeline and the actual events that took place - You provide another false information with nothing to back it up, despite the facts shared with you I don't want to say you're hopeless. Let me know when you're interested in talking about the facts. Look, you're free to look it up. Hamas formed in '87...Israel tried to work with them until they proved to be terrorists as well. Hamas initiated hostilities with a string of bombings in Israel. Hamas attacked first and has been at war with Israel ever since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 Whatever you need to tell yourself to support them. It's what you say that does that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 It's what you say that does that. Yeah...history books are a tad annoying with their facts and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 Look, you're free to look it up. Hamas formed in '87 Concentrate DOP. You seem to have a very hard time staying topic. We're talking about the Gaza attacks, where I clearly showed you, for at least one of the Gaza attacks, that Israel instigated and started it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 Yeah...history books are a tad annoying with their facts and such.Your treatment of history is as silly as betsy's treatment of science. The difference is that she's harmless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 Concentrate DOP. You seem to have a very hard time staying topic. We're talking about the Gaza attacks, where I clearly showed you, for at least one of the Gaza attacks, that Israel instigated and started it. Hamas is Gaza's rulers. Hamas was formed in 1987 and started attacking Israel soon after. Hamas attacked Israel first...as mentioned. Israel tried to work with Hamas but it was discovered Yassin was working with the PLO to conduct murder campaigns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 Your treatment of history is as silly as betsy's treatment of science. The difference is that she's harmless. You're free to make-up any version of history that suits you. I do not take you seriously, anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 You're free to make-up any version of history that suits you. I do not take you seriously, anyways. I think eyeball's analysis of you is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 For Israel, this would require remodeling their constitution to be NON-Jewish (but universal), since this creates a default bias to their ingroup and is NOT the 'democratic' ideal you think it is. This would be the absolutely first step required. Regardless of what you could defend of Israel, if this one particular factor remains (Zionism), it defaults to absolute discrimination and is what divides which people get to experience the fruits of 'democracy'. It is NOT democracy if you cannot participate in it universally regardless of ethnicity. So you think turning Israel into another Muslim state would result in more fairness for all? Because Muslim states are models of fairness, freedom and democracy, as well as respect for minorities, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 I think eyeball's analysis of you is correct. You think Gaza has Jewish settlers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 You're free to make-up any version of history that suits you. I do not take you seriously, anyways. You should take the effects of the bilge you spew more seriously. If you imagine it's doing Israel or Jews any favours you're quite badly mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 (edited) You should take the effects of the bilge you spew more seriously. If you imagine it's doing Israel or Jews any favours you're quite badly mistaken. "Please don't discuss the Palestinian Cause's Nazi past; it's embarrassing those that support it." ....and ignore. Edited May 17, 2016 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Anthony Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 Folks, This thread is permanently locked because it has degraded into a mess of thread drift and personal attacks. You are all free to continue the discussion by starting a new thread --- call it Israeli War Crimes -- Take 2 if you will. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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