Israeli War Crimes

[bush_cheney2004]

....While Israel is 'democratic' for Israeli Jews, they don't extend this right to non-Jews constitutionally. They would NOT allow other groups to exist there to potentially supersede their supreme rule as a cult.

This is not exclusive to Israel....Quebec or Japan, First Nations, or even Switzerland readily come to mind. So why single out Israel ?

Edited April 4, 2016 by bush_cheney2004

[Argus]

Some people don't like National Socialists.

Nobody likes Nazis, actually.

While Israel is 'democratic' for Israeli Jews, they don't extend this right to non-Jews constitutionally.

The Arab and Christian Israeli voters would no doubt disagree with you, as would their representatives in the Knesset.

As to size, while the Jewish population is quite minimal with respect to all other peoples, the Israeli Jews act as a GANG of one genetic-cultural binding and so actually represent one of the larger 'gangs' with respect to similar groups (like the KKK, or Black Panthers, etc.)

They aren't a similar group. They're a nation. And they're far from the only nation which has protections for their culture and values. Most nations do, in fact, to one degree or another. Take a look at Japan some day.

Also, they are absurdly most successful economically as a group in the world stage and this cannot occur without some means to conspire favor to their own implying opposing disrespect for all others.

One thing the Jews are notorious for, in terms of ethnic stereotypes, is their fixation on higher education for their children. They also tend to have close, extended families who help each other out. It's not their fault other cultures have different priorities.

[GostHacked]

Some people don't like Jews.

There are some who don't like Jews, but I fail to see how that is an explanation for the things Israel has been able to get away with.

[taxme]

Uhm, no, they don't label them as nuts. Essentially they label them as Nazis and White supremacist losers.

Because they are. Thanks for being willing to come right out and admit where your antipathy towards Israel originates. Most of the others here are aren't that honest.

It's called doing your own reading and research and coming to your own conclusions as to how the political world turns. Again, question anything Israel or Judaism, expect the insults rather than the debate. The losers are the ones who when they have lost the argument they attack with insults like being called Nazis and white supremos. That is suppose to scare them off. It doesn't work that much anymore with those who do question those two taboo and sacred subjects mentioned. It's water off their backs. We don't all have to love Israel just because you do. There are many Canadian and American and European leftist groups who want Israel to be boycotted. Are they all a bunch of Nazis and white supremos to you now?

So tell me? Why should myself or anybody else give a damn about a country in the middle of the desert. A country that is nothing, living in a nothing desert, and really has nothing to offer to the rest of the world except maybe grief. You live in Canada, so why does what goes on in and is said against Israel such a big deal to you anyway? Do you have some special interest in that country?

[taxme]

No. It's drivel when it makes no sense whatsoever, like ranting about Jewish influence.

You seem to care an awful lot. You don't seem to give a damn about other countries. Suppose you explain your deep fascination Israel.

For me, Israel is like Jews, a parrot in the coal mine. If you want to find a Nazi, or someone with Nazi like mentalities, look for those who despise the Jews.

"A parrot in the coal mine". Good one for a laugh. I have no love or fascination for Israel because that country means nothing to me nor I would think to the majority of Canadians. For some strange and unknown reason, which I find very interesting, is that just about all western nation leaders seem to have to always show support for Israel. I don't get it unless they have too. Like I have already said, their bread and butter maybe depends on showing their support. Hey, it just looks that way.

What is going on here is that anytime someone questions Israel or Judaism they are attacked and labelled as Nazis and white supremos. And what you are telling me here is that Israel must never be questioned on anything they say or do because I guess from your replies, Israel can do no wrong.

Buzz, you lose.

[taxme]

No. Not in this. You're insinuating Jews control the government but you have no explanation as to how they do that given they can't use money and they don't have the votes. It's drivel.

Maybe they don't have total control of the government, but I would feel safe in saying that they probably do have a lot to say and influence in Canada's domestic and foreign policies. The Radical Press website is a source for information of that kind.

[taxme]

Some people don't like Jews.

That's it? That is your response - "some people don't like Jews"? Wow, if that is all you can come back with than I guess I know why? I guess that you just cannot defend their actions in what they say or do then. They just must be accepted and be forgiven for whatever they say or do, and no one need or dare to question those actions. You do not appear to be much of a PR spokesman for them. Maybe I could do better. LOL.

[Argus]

There are some who don't like Jews, but I fail to see how that is an explanation for the things Israel has been able to get away with.

The question was why is Israel so reviled. As for getting away with things, Israel does not 'get away' with any more than anyone else, and a good deal less than many.

[Argus]

It's called doing your own reading and research and coming to your own conclusions as to how the political world turns. Again, question anything Israel or Judaism, expect the insults rather than the debate. The losers are the ones who when they have lost the argument they attack with insults like being called Nazis and white supremos.

When you list a bunch of white supremacists, as you did, and call them patriots, it's not much of a stretch to figure out where you're coming from.

There are many Canadian and American and European leftist groups who want Israel to be boycotted. Are they all a bunch of Nazis and white supremos to you now?

No, mostly garden variety anti-Semites.

So tell me? Why should myself or anybody else give a damn about a country in the middle of the desert. A country that is nothing, living in a nothing desert, and really has nothing to offer to the rest of the world except maybe grief.

I don't know, but you sure do. Maybe you can explain your interest to me.

[Argus]

For some strange and unknown reason, which I find very interesting, is that just about all western nation leaders seem to have to always show support for Israel. I don't get it unless they have too.

Maybe you should ask why western nations NEED to express support for Israel. I mean, western leaders aren't always expressing support for New Zealand or Sweden, are they? Of course, nobody is attacking New Zealand and Sweden. Neither is subject to a fifty year long reign of terrorist attacks, and neither has been constantly attacked by their non democratic neighbours.

But if they were, don't you think other western nations would express their support?

Edited April 4, 2016 by Argus

[Argus]

Maybe they don't have total control of the government, but I would feel safe in saying that they probably do have a lot to say and influence in Canada's domestic and foreign policies. The Radical Press website is a source for information of that kind.

I'm sure your 'radical press' is a great source of wacked out conspiracy theories and notifications of aliens giving people anal probes, too. That doesn't make it anything close to reality.

You are suggesting Jews have substantive control over the government but can't seem to come up with any way they can manage that given they can't legally donate much money and have less than half the votes Muslims do. Maybe you should explain why anyone would take your suggestions seriously when they defy logic and you have no evidence.

[Argus]

That's it? That is your response - "some people don't like Jews"?

You have thus far been unable to suggest a logical alternative theory.

[Michael Hardner]

I'm sure your 'radical press' is a great source of wacked out conspiracy theories and notifications of aliens giving people anal probes, too. That doesn't make it anything close to reality. .

Hi Argus - we worked out a suggested path for people who want to dispute the validity of sources here:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/25544-responding-to-posts-that-use-invalid-sources/#entry1137757

If you do feel that a post is a non-starter, then I will also encourage you to post a reply with a link back to THIS (locked) post stating "I do not accept your sources" or somesuch, and then move on. That response will make a clear statement that you reject the topic outright.

[bush_cheney2004]

I reject the validity of the source and the validity of linking to a suggested path that rejects the validity of the source, as it is redundant and unnecessary.

[Michael Hardner]

Yes, it's just a suggestion for those who wish to do it as some asked for special consideration for such sources.

That's it - let's get back to the topic now.

[Argus]

Hi Argus - we worked out a suggested path for people who want to dispute the validity of sources here:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/25544-responding-to-posts-that-use-invalid-sources/#entry1137757

What if one does not so much wish to 'dispute' the validity of a source (note, no actual cite has been offered) but observe that the source in question is full of anti-Semitic and Nazi garbage like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and Mein Kamph? In fact, that the only purpose of the site in question seems to be denigrate Jews?

[Big Guy]

So the Israeli Zionists continue to persecute Palestinians and steal their lands:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/04/israel-tears-palestinian-homes-24-hours-west-bank-israel-160404143630841.html

Seven Palestinian homes have been demolished in the past 24 hours across the Occupied West Bank - a move dubbed as "collective punishment" by Palestinian leaders. The list of demolished structures includes three houses in Qabatiya town south of Jenin belonging to families of a trio gunned down in February after they killed an Israeli soldier.

At least 10 Palestinians from the town have also been killed by Israeli forces since October last year.

And there are still Canadians who can support that king of oppression.

Shame!

When is our new government going to call out these war criminals to the world court?

[taxme]

When you list a bunch of white supremacists, as you did, and call them patriots, it's not much of a stretch to figure out where you're coming from.

No, mostly garden variety anti-Semites.

I don't know, but you sure do. Maybe you can explain your interest to me.

(1)If you knew the difference between a white supremacist/Nazi and a patriot you would then know why I mentioned their names.

(2)Or they could be your garden variety of Nazis and white supremos.

(3)I have no interest in Israel. But you appear too. I am just interested in learning about their crimes against humanity as pointed out by just about the rest of the world.

Edited April 5, 2016 by taxme

[taxme]

The question was why is Israel so reviled. As for getting away with things, Israel does not 'get away' with any more than anyone else, and a good deal less than many.

So, why do you think IsraeI is so reviled? Why do so many countries despise Israel? There must be a good reason for that? Well?

[taxme]

You have thus far been unable to suggest a logical alternative theory.

Am I talking to a wall?

[taxme]

Maybe you should ask why western nations NEED to express support for Israel. I mean, western leaders aren't always expressing support for New Zealand or Sweden, are they? Of course, nobody is attacking New Zealand and Sweden. Neither is subject to a fifty year long reign of terrorist attacks, and neither has been constantly attacked by their non democratic neighbours.

But if they were, don't you think other western nations would express their support?

Maybe you should ask why western nations NEED to express support for Israel. I mean, western leaders aren't always expressing support for New Zealand or Sweden, are they? Of course, nobody is attacking New Zealand and Sweden. Neither is subject to a fifty year long reign of terrorist attacks, and neither has been constantly attacked by their non democratic neighbours.

But if they were, don't you think other western nations would express their support?

I have no idea as to why most western nations feel that they need to support Israel? It is nothing but a country surrounded by sand in the middle of the desert. A nothing place. Without Americas billions of tax dollars assistance they would not exist. Just how and why does a country like Israel in the middle of the desert get so much money from America, and probably other countries also is baffling. Maybe it's because they own America?

Hey, one never knows.

[taxme]

I'm sure your 'radical press' is a great source of wacked out conspiracy theories and notifications of aliens giving people anal probes, too. That doesn't make it anything close to reality.

You are suggesting Jews have substantive control over the government but can't seem to come up with any way they can manage that given they can't legally donate much money and have less than half the votes Muslims do. Maybe you should explain why anyone would take your suggestions seriously when they defy logic and you have no evidence.

If you need an answer to your questions, maybe websites like RP or others like it can fill your needed answers. You cannot judge a book by it's covers alone. And I am afraid that you have just looked at the cover only, and have not gone further than that, that is if you have gone there at all. I have and I don't get the impression that I have been made a fool of at all. What I got was both sides of the story. No problem with that is there?

[bush_cheney2004]

...Without Americas billions of tax dollars assistance they would not exist. Just how and why does a country like Israel in the middle of the desert get so much money from America, and probably other countries also is baffling. Maybe it's because they own America?

Yeah...that's it..."they" own America. And so do several other countries that get American humanitarian, military, and economic aid. They all "own America"....Jordan, Egypt....even the Afghans, who get more than the "Jews" in Israel nowadays.

Why oh why does America do this....it is a wondrous mystery !

[Scott Mayers]

This is not exclusive to Israel....Quebec or Japan, First Nations, or even Switzerland readily come to mind. So why single out Israel ?

Hmmm, I didn't know we were discussing Quebec, Japan, First Nations, or even Switzerland in this thread. But perhaps if or where you can assure that I don't question Nationalism anywhere else, you might have some justification to question this of me.

Your appearing to accuse me of some form of hypocrisy here which is both not true of me (because I'm consistently against this anywhere and of anyone) and to whether this if true, matters of this particular argument. (Tu quoque fallacy)

[Scott Mayers]

Some people don't like National Socialists.

A National Socialist is one who supports a State of one significant culture and their genetic ancestrally related peoples to be favored in the context of ownership in the hands or absolute control of these people ONLY. The government thus designed is to FAVOR this ethnicity with some myth or religion that grants them some 'official' justification to the properties they hold via some more supreme force, or Nature itself.

[response to Argus asserting why he thinks people question Israel by Taxme]

Nobody likes Nazis, actually.

The Arab and Christian Israeli voters would no doubt disagree with you, as would their representatives in the Knesset.

The point of which you purposely hide the context of is that the Israelis ARE National Socialists. As to the second sentence that is intended to imply that Arab and Christian Israelis would disagree, this is NOT representative of what the state of Israel has set up. If by any chance these sub-member groups were granted the capacity to dominate Israel, it would no longer BE a Zionist State. These particular minorities are intended to both REMAIN minorities and have to be such that they presently ACCEPT the superiority of the Jewish-constituted state by default.

If this wasn't the case, the Israelis would automatically accept the Palestinian Muslims as members of their democracy too. From the start, they excluded these 'first nation' peoples from participating. And had they not, any possible state that would have existed democratically would have by default have a Palestinian majority to this day.

As to size, while the Jewish population is quite minimal with respect to all other peoples, the Israeli Jews act as a GANG of one genetic-cultural binding and so actually represent one of the larger 'gangs' with respect to similar groups (like the KKK, or Black Panthers, etc.)

They aren't a similar group. They're a nation. And they're far from the only nation which has protections for their culture and values. Most nations do, in fact, to one degree or another. Take a look at Japan some day.

Yes. And this would be like if the KKK had opted to fixate on some particular State in America, optimized their economic resources to buy property up there, segregate themselves from the non-white/non-KKK supporters until they had sufficient power to demand Separation from the Union of the United States! Then to such a 'state' this would most assuredly mark them out as a VERY powerful group should this happen, right?

Japan used to be like this up to WWII and while this no doubt still exists, it is accidental. Nor have the Japanese there stolen some previous residents homes to create Japan [at least in recent times for as far as I follow their ancient history].

One thing the Jews are notorious for, in terms of ethnic stereotypes, is their fixation on higher education for their children. They also tend to have close, extended families who help each other out. It's not their fault other cultures have different priorities.

This may be true. But it is 'true' regardless of ones' intent. The German Natives too had this in mind. But no matter what they could do to try to favor their ingroup, they were always at a disadvantage based solely on relative economic impoverishment by contrast to the Jews there. Christianity also aided in what 'strengthened' the Jews by their own abolition of middle-men profiteering (usury). As such, even the discrimination against the Jews then actually fostered their (Jewish) fortune as well as their isolation for this very principle. However, even throughout the present Catholic empire, the Christians at least must have had some virtue of their existence with respect to the same usury advantages which only enhanced Jews in kind.

Taking out this initial 'Christian' value, even Christianity no longer had laws against usury and why the concern of an unbalanced condition of having a need for Jewish segregation was required. But since they maintained this in light of changes for those particular Jews who still believed in keeping their segregation, it makes them more of a cult when or where they maintain biasing favor to their ingroup with exclusion to outsiders.

I've pointed out that with respect to certain industries, it is important that no one culture, especially ones that are so segregate in essence, should have power in them with dominance, regardless of how potentially nice they could appear to be. Israel may not be a 'street gang'. But this contingency is only by virtue of the wealth they accumulate to require using 'street' methods.

I can VALUE what means the Israelis may permit of themselves. A certain 'pride' is necessary for self-confidence and optimism to permit change for the better. This doesn't help though if you are simply so unfortunate to be born into some contingent genetic-classed group which is at the opposite economic spectrum. Would you blame the impoverished people of some common genetic origin as 'owning' their doomed fate in direct opposition to how you favor Israel for their 'owning' their own pride for their own successes? We live in an interdependent world of which the successes of some require essential losses of another. If you credit the Jews for their ability to succeed based on 'good' stereotypes, you must discredit those, like the Blacks in the U.S. as having some intrinsic 'bad' stereotypes that earned them their misfortunes too.

So it is not correct to credit Jewish cohesiveness as a virtue as this is PRECISELY what the Nazis believed and why they went against them with most forcefulness. The Nazis were derived of the same social anarchistic ideals of Communism but recognized that to concern themselves with the whole was delusional because those who still exist as believing in their distinctness and empowered to preserve it would only use such a platform as a false means to take the reigns of control prior taking over in some Nationalistic favor among them regardless.

They feared the "Jew" as being unbeatable (eternal) regardless of what could be thrown at them BECAUSE of their NATIONALISM, and why they believed that regardless of any real compassion one might hope to hold for the whole, those with nationalistic strength would supersede those preferring universal compassion. They also perceived the Communists as being composed of those same Jews intent on only utilizing the myth of universal compassion as a means to delude others until they are trapped under their authority. In some ways, this made sense considering that Marx had to revise the means to the ideal of an anarchic state with a contemporary dictator who would command anyways. This logic only seemed impossible to assure the ideal because you'd still have to trust that the person leading was not particularly interested in their own ancestral roots or biased to naturally favor those of their own inherent associations. Thus "National Socialism" was and IS a model that the Nazis derived from the Jew, as they perceived it. Their campaign to wipe them out was only in the belief that the Jews themselves were Nationalistic but using a subterfuge to harm others as opposed to being more direct. (Knife in the back as opposed to knife in the front)

And now, here you and others are crediting the very background stereotype that granted virtue to the inevitable actions of those like Hitler to be empowered to the same things that also cause the supposed greatest harms. I don't know if you are just being naive or just treating this as a game in light of knowing this. If you favor the Nationalism of Israel at present, you are supporting a National Socialistic ideal that ALWAYS tends towards harming some out-group at minimum.

I'm NOT saying here that this is 'wrong' in respect to nature itself. However, if you logically recognize this AND still maintain that the Israeli is any different to those they most oppose, I find this most hypocritical. Two wrongs don't make a right. And if Hitler was solely in the 'wrong' (including presuming that the Jews' eternal strength resided in their Nationalism), then the Zionists attempts to take over in Palestine to create the state of Israel is just repeating the same kind of abuse. Perhaps these people simply believed that since the world is doomed to be evil, we may as well optimize our own power in the same light (to be evil too), ....just be more clever about it.

I don't believe the Nazis were completely irrational contrary to the smear against them afterthefact. I don't personally agree to it but know that there is at least an equal justification for Israel to do this for the same reason. Was Hitler right afterall though? If Zionisim IS correct and fair, than ironically, Hitler was too. And supporting Zionism and Israel is just proving this.

Our best solution is to dissolve Nationalism if we are to actually believe in some universal compassion. OR should we all follow suit and enhance our Nationalisms instead? I don't have the answer and hate politics for its contradictions. But if we don't recognize the truth of the logic here, we won't be able to find some POSSIBLE better means to solve them creatively.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Scott Mayers