eyeball Posted January 8, 2018 Report Posted January 8, 2018 18 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: It means very little, as in 'world opinion'. But somebody asked me if I want him to 'fail' and I had to think on what that meant to a non-national such as me. Success for many around the world will mean driving America over a cliff. Like Evel Knievel. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 8, 2018 Author Report Posted January 8, 2018 1 hour ago, eyeball said: Success for many around the world will mean driving America over a cliff. Like Evel Knievel. Success for many others meant driving, flying, and swimming to America more than any other nation in the world. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted January 8, 2018 Report Posted January 8, 2018 1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Success for many others meant driving, flying, and swimming to America more than any other nation in the world. Well for you that's certainly the case but you're not what we're talking about so... Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Michael Hardner Posted January 8, 2018 Report Posted January 8, 2018 10 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Roger that, but how can two very different thoughts occupy the same space: presumed dependence on American choices <> foreign judgement and condemnation of those choices. Would this be 'looking a gift horse in the mouth' ? I agree that it's a tricky and disagreeable position to be in. But even though I am dependent on said foreign power, I will criticize them as I criticize my own government, my own religion, my own family, or my own country. 10 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: s. Do you think that Americans should change their president whenever the choice does not meet yours or other Americans' approval ? How would "failure" improve the situation ? I have no say in the matter, I just express my own thoughts. 10 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: In general, why is Canada so voluntarily dependent and invested in American choices and decisions in the first place ? Because the Americans revolted but couldn't finish the job ? Or didn't like the French at all ? Not sure. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
OftenWrong Posted January 8, 2018 Report Posted January 8, 2018 4 hours ago, eyeball said: You're discounting the constructive potential of destruction such a spectacle in power offers. While a sense of appreciation for what is right and good can lead in that direction more often than not the path to enlightenment is a painful one. Being governed is like living in a house besieged with rampant substance abuse and powerful abusers. Nothing will get better until the bottom falls out. Who knows maybe the harder things fall the bigger the bounce. Go Trump go. I like that. Draining the swamp can be a painful process, kinda like draining an infected tooth, or lancing a boil. Quote
eyeball Posted January 9, 2018 Report Posted January 9, 2018 1 hour ago, OftenWrong said: I like that. Draining the swamp can be a painful process, kinda like draining an infected tooth, or lancing a boil. The funny thing is that no one ever wonders about where the pus goes. In Trump's case I suspects he sucks and swallows and of just gets sicker as a result. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2018 Author Report Posted January 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said: Would this be 'looking a gift horse in the mouth' ? I agree that it's a tricky and disagreeable position to be in. But even though I am dependent on said foreign power, I will criticize them as I criticize my own government, my own religion, my own family, or my own country. So do you have a list of foreign governments and their leaders deserving of your angst, ranked by dependence and concerns, or is it only the United States ? Quote I have no say in the matter, I just express my own thoughts. Right, but at some point one realizes that what they can't change is not worth worrying about so much. I have no idea what it feels like to be so dependent and dominated by a foreign power, but some of it must/would be self inflicted. Quote Because the Americans revolted but couldn't finish the job ? Or didn't like the French at all ? Not sure. Yes, the Americans revolted, but Canada stayed in Britain's empire. It was only later that Canada was forced to realize that Britain (and France) had abandoned them to the vagaries of the American republic bastards to the south. Trump is just another chapter in a very long story that Canada keeps reading. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted January 9, 2018 Report Posted January 9, 2018 10 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: I have no idea what it feels like to be so dependent and dominated by a foreign power, but some of it must/would be self inflicted. Right, go tell it to Castro. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2018 Author Report Posted January 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, eyeball said: Right, go tell it to Castro. Go tell what to Castro....his country doesn't love American TV as much as Canada. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted January 9, 2018 Report Posted January 9, 2018 44 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Go tell what to Castro. How brave you are. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2018 Author Report Posted January 9, 2018 1 minute ago, eyeball said: How brave you are. Cubans who risk death to get to the USA are far braver. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Michael Hardner Posted January 9, 2018 Report Posted January 9, 2018 1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said: So do you have a list of foreign governments and their leaders deserving of your angst, ranked by dependence and concerns, or is it only the United States ? Do I literally have a 'list' ? No. I have thoughts about all government leaders, pretty much, from time to time. Sometimes I express them. 1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Right, but at some point one realizes that what they can't change is not worth worrying about so much. I have no idea what it feels like to be so dependent and dominated by a foreign power, but some of it must/would be self inflicted. Self-inflicted how ? I don't question your right to comment or have feelings about world leaders. Why should we be different in this regard, only because one of us lives in a dominant country ? 1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Yes, the Americans revolted, but Canada stayed in Britain's empire. It was only later that Canada was forced to realize that Britain (and France) had abandoned them to the vagaries of the American republic bastards to the south. Trump is just another chapter in a very long story that Canada keeps reading. I don't know about 'abandoned'. Then again, I don't think they themselves knew what a 'Dominion' was. Yes, we will keep reading that story, no doubt. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2018 Author Report Posted January 9, 2018 7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: Self-inflicted how ? I don't question your right to comment or have feelings about world leaders. Why should we be different in this regard, only because one of us lives in a dominant country ? Because I don't extend comments to an expressed desire for failed governance. Condemnation and mockery is one thing...personal affront and dependence on outcomes is quite another. No matter what, Trump is just another American president. Quote I don't know about 'abandoned'. Then again, I don't think they themselves knew what a 'Dominion' was. Yes, we will keep reading that story, no doubt. The history on this is well documented by Canadian authors....Britain needed American resources more than it needed a Canadian colony and beaver pelts. Canada migrated to the American sphere of influence out of necessity...it is still in that place (economically). Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Michael Hardner Posted January 9, 2018 Report Posted January 9, 2018 11 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Because I don't extend comments to an expressed desire for failed governance. Condemnation and mockery is one thing...personal affront and dependence on outcomes is quite another. No matter what, Trump is just another American president. Well, I did step back from saying I wanted 'failure'. I said I wanted him out of office, ie. a better leader. Wouldn't you feel ok about the N. Korean leader leaving office ? 11 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: The history on this is well documented by Canadian authors....Britain needed American resources more than it needed a Canadian colony and beaver pelts. Canada migrated to the American sphere of influence out of necessity...it is still in that place (economically). Agreed. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
DogOnPorch Posted January 9, 2018 Report Posted January 9, 2018 10 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: The history on this is well documented by Canadian authors....Britain needed American resources more than it needed a Canadian colony and beaver pelts. Canada migrated to the American sphere of influence out of necessity...it is still in that place (economically). Halifax was handy...being closer. But it wasn't Canada handing over large numbers of 4 stacker destroyers to the Brits for the North Atlantic sub hunt. That would be you guys. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2018 Author Report Posted January 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: Well, I did step back from saying I wanted 'failure'. I said I wanted him out of office, ie. a better leader. Wouldn't you feel ok about the N. Korean leader leaving office ? Would depend on the circumstances of his departure....all nations could probably have better leaders, but I don't worry about it. I would never travel to Canada to protest the ruling PM....that's delusional. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Michael Hardner Posted January 9, 2018 Report Posted January 9, 2018 8 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Would depend on the circumstances of his departure....all nations could probably have better leaders, but I don't worry about it. But do you post about it ? I do. Also, you might worry about it if you lived beside the most powerful nation 8 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: I would never travel to Canada to protest the ruling PM....that's delusional. I don't know if it's delusional. I think the person who would do so presumes that a person, as a visitor to the US for example, has the same rights as an American citizen. Certainly that's wrong, however there are many things that a visitor can do, as I understand, that are equal to the options of a citizen. I also wouldn't travel to a foreign country and protest it, but I think it's perhaps a testimonial to the efforts of the founding fathers of the US that freedom of expression is so thoughtlessly taken to be a universal right by some people. As I said, I have to live with some contradictions here, which are different from the contradictions we all (including you) have to live with. There's no exculpatory 'easy answer' there but that's life. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2018 Author Report Posted January 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: But do you post about it ? I do. Also, you might worry about it if you lived beside the most powerful nation No...I don't recall specific posts about Kim Jong-un either way...I just accept that he is the "leader" of the DPRK until that changes, understanding that I have no personal role in what such a change would or should be. Again, I don't control that, so I don't worry much about it. Lots of nations have nuclear weapons at the ready by design....I use to be part of the nuclear armageddon apparatus, so perhaps am a bit more jaded about it. Boom.... Quote I don't know if it's delusional. I think the person who would do so presumes that a person, as a visitor to the US for example, has the same rights as an American citizen. Certainly that's wrong, however there are many things that a visitor can do, as I understand, that are equal to the options of a citizen. I also wouldn't travel to a foreign country and protest it, but I think it's perhaps a testimonial to the efforts of the founding fathers of the US that freedom of expression is so thoughtlessly taken to be a universal right by some people. As I said, I have to live with some contradictions here, which are different from the contradictions we all (including you) have to live with. There's no exculpatory 'easy answer' there but that's life. OK....but only the most idealistic and naive individual would cross an international border to protest the domestic policies of another nation. I suppose in the case of Canadians going to protests in Washington D.C., we are right back to the neurotic dependency and impotence they feel "north of the border"...or that the "real action" happens in the USA. The U.S. has broader free speech rights than does Canada, as well as other citizenship differences. I have often joked here than some Canadians even believe they have "Miranda" rights...from watching so much American television. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Michael Hardner Posted January 9, 2018 Report Posted January 9, 2018 18 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: 1. Again, I don't control that, so I don't worry much about it. 2. Lots of nations have nuclear weapons at the ready by design....I use to be part of the nuclear armageddon apparatus, so perhaps am a bit more jaded about it. Boom.... 1. It's psychologically healthy to not worry about things over which you have no control. I don't have control over my own neuroses, though. 2. That may be a strange benefit of working in defence, I guess. 20 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: OK....but only the most idealistic and naive individual would cross an international border to protest the domestic policies of another nation. I suppose in the case of Canadians going to protests in Washington D.C., we are right back to the neurotic dependency and impotence they feel "north of the border"...or that the "real action" happens in the USA. You have given a recognizable assessment of such individuals. Of course 'naive' and 'idealistic' doesn't equal 'bad'. Do they feel 'impotent' do you think ? Or do they mistakenly think their opinion matters in another country ? Now that is something I don't worryabout. 20 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: The U.S. has broader free speech rights than does Canada, as well as other citizenship differences. I have often joked here than some Canadians even believe they have "Miranda" rights...from watching so much American television. Yes, there are many spillovers to the explosion of American culture, globally, which I have noted when they take place in other countries. These include Britons dialling 9-1-1 for emergencies, having seen it in movies. And young Russians, apparently some of them anyway, believe that America gave the greatest sacrifice to win WW2. Please believe that I didn't add that last example to diminish the great effort that America did submit, nor do I mean to sideswipe your military background (as far as I think you have one) but it speaks to your point about Canadians thinking we have 'Miranda' rights etc. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2018 Author Report Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. It's psychologically healthy to not worry about things over which you have no control. I don't have control over my own neuroses, though. 2. That may be a strange benefit of working in defence, I guess. Well in my case, the Soviet Union loomed far larger and nuclear capable than the DPRK, so it was not a stretch to associate military service with nukes as a meaningful contribution to the perceived threat and propaganda. Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD) worked for the most part....still does. Plus all the engineering and experience was rewarding (applied physics). Quote You have given a recognizable assessment of such individuals. Of course 'naive' and 'idealistic' doesn't equal 'bad'. Do they feel 'impotent' do you think ? Or do they mistakenly think their opinion matters in another country ? Now that is something I don't worryabout. Agreed...not "bad". I think some of these individuals also enjoy the social and group think aspects of such an adventure across the border. They may feel impotent, but my question is why even put oneself in that psychological position to begin with. Social media has made it far easier for these folks to work themselves into a frenzied lather. Quote Yes, there are many spillovers to the explosion of American culture, globally, which I have noted when they take place in other countries. These include Britons dialling 9-1-1 for emergencies, having seen it in movies. And young Russians, apparently some of them anyway, believe that America gave the greatest sacrifice to win WW2. Please believe that I didn't add that last example to diminish the great effort that America did submit, nor do I mean to sideswipe your military background (as far as I think you have one) but it speaks to your point about Canadians thinking we have 'Miranda' rights etc. No offense taken....anybody with even a modicum of understanding for WW2 knows that the Soviets and other nations sacrificed more blood and homeland treasure than the Americans. Hell, the largest group of Americans by ethnicity is...German. I know it is unrealistic for me to think that Canadians can largely ignore the "Excited States of America", but they probably can control their own reactions and volunteered dependencies. Edited January 9, 2018 by bush_cheney2004 1 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 13, 2018 Author Report Posted January 13, 2018 This Canadian's FEAR of Trump is channeled in a very emotional rant for "white Canadians": Quote ...I’m talking to white Canadians because I’m a white Canadian and I know a hell of a lot of white Canadians and this is how I feel I can make a difference today while still sitting at home crying with out of control anxiety. I’m talking to white Canadians because we need to smarten up and also because y’all are all making me so fucking mad. So here it goes: Cut. Out. Your. Smug. Canadian. Bullshit. STOP. You are revolting. Stop telling yourself that there is some sort of intrinsic difference between Canadians and Americans and stop acting like we are better than this or them and like it couldn’t happen to us. Stop. Stop acting like it isn’t already happening to us. Stop. Stop acting like everything is okay. Stop saying the American election is “great for comedy”. Stop saying it’s a reality TV show you love to watch. Fucking stop. Don’t get mad at America or Americans get mad at the state of the world. Get mad at yourself. Get mad and stop being so fucking smug. https://medium.com/@emmahvossen/canada-stop-with-this-smug-bullshit-we-are-not-better-than-america-6db7c0a3d234 Yes, despite her request, it is just another snowflake meltdown, but very cute in its own way. Rant away.... Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Boges Posted January 13, 2018 Report Posted January 13, 2018 The problem with a quote like that is that it swings in the other direction. It labels anything that isn't Trudeau, Trump. Sheer is Trump, Patrick Brown is Trump. No ma'am JT is the one that's out of touch. He's the one damaging Canada. Quote
Guest Posted January 13, 2018 Report Posted January 13, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: This Canadian's FEAR of Trump is channeled in a very emotional rant for "white Canadians": Yes, despite her request, it is just another snowflake meltdown, but very cute in its own way. Rant away.... Quit eight paragraphs in. Silly self important tripe. Of course, I'm not really Canadian. Edited January 13, 2018 by bcsapper Quote
eyeball Posted January 13, 2018 Report Posted January 13, 2018 35 minutes ago, bcsapper said: Quit eight paragraphs in. Silly self important tripe. Of course, I'm not really Canadian. Thanks for the heads up, I'll quit before I start. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
OftenWrong Posted January 13, 2018 Report Posted January 13, 2018 10 minutes ago, eyeball said: Thanks for the heads up, I'll quit before I start. Yay. I expect you would have a long list of fears to share, if you started... Quote
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