Canadians FEAR Trump...Big Time

[taxme]

It certainly looks like the new world order Clinton/bush/Obama gang establishment are in a panic. Many of the elite establishment have lots to lose if Trump becomes President. I am truly afraid for Trump. I am pretty sure that he may end up on a hit list. I hope not. I hope that he makes President, and starts kicking some butt. Long overdue.

[Argus]

Not everyone in Canada fears Trump. Conrad Black thinks Trump will make America great again.

The admiration the pompous and erudite Black has for the down and dirty Trump has always confused me, but it doesn't seem to have faded any.

Americans, Trump rightly concluded, could not abide a continuation in office of those in both parties who had given them decades of shabby and incompetent government: stagnant family incomes, the worst recession in 80 years, stupid wars that cost scores of thousands of casualties and trillions of dollars and generated a humanitarian disaster, serial foreign policy humiliations, and particularly the absence of a border to prevent the entry of unlimited numbers of unskilled migrants, and trade deals that seemed only to import unemployment with often defective goods. I was one of those who thought at the outset that Trump was giving it a shot, and that if it didn’t fly it would at least be a good brand-building exercise.

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/conrad-black-dont-underestimate-donald-he-will-win

[GostHacked]

Not everyone in Canada fears Trump. Conrad Black thinks Trump will make America great again.

The admiration the pompous and erudite Black has for the down and dirty Trump has always confused me, but it doesn't seem to have faded any.

I will make the same prediction I made before Obama got into office, and that prediction is that things are going to get worse for the USA regardless of who gets into office.

[WestCoastRunner]

Watching Canadian news is boring. It's always the same old, same old with them. They seem to only want to talk about politically correct things like the environment, global warming, gay rights, refugees, Trump bash, the joys of multiculturalism or are always looking for some racist or sexist story to report about. It's always the same old, same old.

What I would like to see is more reporting on politically incorrect topics that are near and dear to my heart, and I have many.

What politically incorrect topics is it that you want to discuss? Perhaps start a thread on it. I'm curious.

[taxme]

What politically incorrect topics is it that you want to discuss? Perhaps start a thread on it. I'm curious.

The waste of our tax dollars should be a big topic here. Topics like bilingualism, multiculturalism, foreign-aid, refugees, and our present day immigration policy among many others needs to be discussed more. Those programs and agendas alone have cost the Canadian taxpayer's billions and billions of their tax dollars over the decades. They have not been good job producers but have become wasteful feel good projects. There is no common sense or logic to any of them. Maybe a thread should be started on how politicians keep wasting taxpayer's tax dollars on many silly projects that do not serve any purpose except to maybe create jobs for someone or some group that was loyal to some political party.

Take bilingualism for instance. Quebec francophones have probably benefitted big time because many bilingual jobs that were created in Ottawa were bilingual which gave francos a better chance of getting those jobs because most francos can speak both languages. Anglophones were pretty much left out of the loop. From my understanding most government departments in Ottawa are majority french. That should not be.

[Argus]

The waste of our tax dollars should be a big topic here. Topics like bilingualism, multiculturalism, foreign-aid, refugees, and our present day immigration policy among many others needs to be discussed more. Those programs and agendas alone have cost the Canadian taxpayer's billions and billions of their tax dollars over the decades. They have not been good job producers but have become wasteful feel good projects. There is no common sense or logic to any of them. Maybe a thread should be started on how politicians keep wasting taxpayer's tax dollars on many silly projects that do not serve any purpose except to maybe create jobs for someone or some group that was loyal to some political party.

Take bilingualism for instance. Quebec francophones have probably benefitted big time because many bilingual jobs that were created in Ottawa were bilingual which gave francos a better chance of getting those jobs because most francos can speak both languages. Anglophones were pretty much left out of the loop. From my understanding most government departments in Ottawa are majority french. That should not be.

So start a topic on it.

[taxme]

So start a topic on it.

Maybe I will.

[taxme]

No - it is a well founded fear based on the well documented actions of Trump in the past. And unlike some Canadians I am not reflexively anti-American and often support the Republican party policies. Trump is trouble and I hope Americans realize that before it is too late.

I would turn the question on you: can you point to anything in Trump's history that would suggest he would do well in his job a president?

I am at a real loss as to why some Canadians are in fear of Trump becoming President. Are they afraid that Trump is going to invade Canada? What I do not understand as to why they have this fear? What is it that they are afraid of?

I believe that the world has more to fear from Hillary becoming President than the world has to fear of Trump becoming President. He is not a warmonger, Hillary is. she is a part of the establishment. And they are always up to no good.

[Argus]

I am at a real loss as to why some Canadians are in fear of Trump becoming President. Are they afraid that Trump is going to invade Canada? What I do not understand as to why they have this fear? What is it that they are afraid of?

For one thing, Trump advocates protectionist policies. And he's a knee-jerk reactionary who knows how the law works. Let's say he slaps a huge import fee on Canadian goods (and everyone elses). He won't necessarily give a damn that the fee is illegal under NAFTA or the WTO rules or anything else. So then we take him to court, and it takes two or three years to get a decision...

Or let's say he pulls a Chris Christie and decides to pressure us by restricting traffic across key border points, or having everything double and triple checked, costing Canadian exporters a fortune.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Argus

[bush_cheney2004]

For one thing, Trump advocates protectionist policies.

Then why does Canada still love Obama ? See "Buy American"....Keystone XL....border security....TPP....etc.

[cybercoma]

Canada is a political boundary, not a human being. It doesn't have feelings.

Just thought I'd make the kind of thoughtful arguments you usually make.

[bush_cheney2004]

Canada is a political boundary, not a human being. It doesn't have feelings.

So Canadians love a political boundary, and stand on guard for thee against Donald Trump ?

Ruler supreme, who hearest humble prayer,

Hold our Dominion, in thy loving care.

Help us to find, O God, in thee,

A lasting rich reward.

As waiting for the better day,

We ever stand on guard.

[Argus]

Then why does Canada still love Obama ?

I don't speak for the country. I've never loved Obama. At best, he seemed somewhat better than his opponent given the second banana on the Repub ticket and the age of Mccain.

[segnosaur]

I am at a real loss as to why some Canadians are in fear of Trump becoming President.

This has already been explained multiple times. Go way back to post #2.

In short: Trump is a failure as a businessman, with multiple bankruptcies and a string of failed businesses under his belt. I would rather not put the economy in the hands of someone with that little business sense. Furthermore, the number of lies he tells exceeds those of other candidates, and his grasp of economics, politics and international relations is poor (e.g. pigs blood bullets, the 42% unemployment rate, etc.)

Are they afraid that Trump is going to invade Canada?

Uhh.. no. As has been explained multiple times in this thread...

Many feel that Trump's incompetence will be detrimental to the world as a whole, both economically and politically. Regardless of Trump's "friendliness" with Canada, or the desire to maintain good relations between the 2 nations, having the U.S. economy crash the way so many of Trump's business ventures have crashed will not be good for Canada.

I believe that the world has more to fear from Hillary becoming President than the world has to fear of Trump becoming President. He is not a warmonger...

And what makes you think that?

Prior to the ouster of Kadaffy, Trump was calling for the U.S. to get involved in Libya. (Of course, since then, he's gone and lied about the issue.) And, he has also called for the bombing of oil fields controlled by Isis. He has also said he would deliberately kill children.

Doesn't sound like a peacenick to me.

http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2016-02-26/ap-fact-check-trump-objects-to-cursing

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/11/trump-on-bombing-isis-oil-fields/

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/mar/3/donald-trump-says-hed-force-us-military-commit-war/

Hillary is. she is a part of the establishment. And they are always up to no good.

Trump has been sued multiple times. He is currently under investigation for fraud for his role in Trump University. (This is in addition to all the other businesses that have folded with Trump's name on them, leaving other investors on the hook for millions of dollars.)

Yeah, its easy to pick on other Candidates as being part of the "establishment", But if you are going to get rid of the establishment, you should try to replace it with something better.

[bush_cheney2004]

I don't speak for the country. I've never loved Obama. At best, he seemed somewhat better than his opponent given the second banana on the Repub ticket and the age of Mccain.

Understood, but many other Canadians did/do express strong admiration and support for candidate Obama and President Obama, regardless of the negative impact he has had on Canada.

This long history of cross border hate/love come election time is mostly one-way in my observations since the 1970's. Maybe Canadians just parrot back what they see in American media along party lines.

[segnosaur]

Re: Trump killing children...

Ahh no, you're incorrect.....and Trump further clarified his position today.

First of all, that article is behind a pay-wall.

Secondly, I don't think it actually counts as a 'clarification'. A clarification suggests an initial statement that was unclear or could be understood in multiple ways. On the other hand, Trump's suggestion of killing the families of terrorists had no such issues of clarity... it was explained in lengthy detail, and everyone knew pretty much exactly what he was talking about. Furthermore, when initial objections were raised about whether the military would carry out an order that targeted children, Trump said they would do what he said, regardless of the legality.

What Trump seems to be doing is actually changing his stated policy. That's not "clarification".

Which brings up so many issues:

If his initial statement was just rhetoric, and trump knew it was a lie, then what does it say to people who think trump is honest/tells it like it is?

If its a case of changing positions, what does it way about a potential political leader who will take such a questionable position, and stick by it for an extended length of time, without doing basic fact checking?

[bush_cheney2004]

....If its a case of changing positions, what does it way about a potential political leader who will take such a questionable position, and stick by it for an extended length of time, without doing basic fact checking?

Answered your own question...it just means that he/she is a politician with aspirations for higher office.

[segnosaur]

- advocate banning Muslims from entering the United States

Like Carter did with Iran during the hostage crisis.

Slightly different situation...

Its fairly easy to identify country by passport. (Its pretty much on the cover page.) Not sure how exactly you would identify how someone is a Muslim or not. Force them to eat a ham sandwhich at the border?

Some people do see a difference between policies dealing with a country (a geo-political entity) than policies dealing with religion. A country can pass all sorts of laws targeting other countries (no trade with Cuba, etc.) but targeting those with a particular religion is problematic.

What did he advocate? I know he's supported waterboarding and rendition.......but then, so to did the Bush and Clinton administrations, likewise countless administrations, to various degrees, before them even.

It is true that other Administrations have advocated the use of torture. There are 2 issues here...

- Trump has suggested broadening the torture laws. So, as bad as previous presidents were, Trump wants to make it worse

- You would also hope that, being the 21st century, we could become more respectful of human rights, not less.

- advocate war crimes (attacking the families of people who are accused of terrorism)

How is his position different than Obama's drone strikes, which have attacked funerals, weddings etc?

It is a different situation whether a child is deliberately targeted and killed (as Trump was proposing) and one where a child dies either through an accident or as collateral damage when an actual terrorist is targeted.

War is not perfect.... innocent people do get killed. Generally the military does some sort of risk assessment (how valuable is the target? How many innocents could die?) before engaging in military operations in order to minimize the number of civilians killed.

So? Obama was supported by known bigots.......doesn't make Obama a "Hitler"......

Its true that any political candidate can't control who votes for them. That goes for Obama getting support from Farrikan and Trump getting support from David Duke.

There are 2 issues here though..

- Trump lied. At one point he said he didn't know who Duke was, yet its easy to go back a few years and find him specifically referring to Duke as a racist. At the very least, it shows Trump is either a liar, or has poor memory.

- You should also ask yourself why people like Duke supported Trump. There were (at one point) over a dozen Candidates in the republican primaries. Duke could have thrown his support to (for example) Rubio or Cruz (or Bush or Christie, if Cruz was not white enough for him.) Obama did get support from african-American radicals, but its not like he deliberately made attempts to gather their support. On the other hand, Trump HAS been making statements that could be considered by many to be racist.

[segnosaur]

Trump's mannerisms remind me more of Mussolini than Hitler but that's as far as it goes. Unlike Hitler or Mussolini, Trump doesn't have a political philosophy, he is just a huckster willing to say anything that might appeal to his followers without any regard for the consequences of what comes out of his cake hole.

Actually the person who he reminds me of most is Hugo Chavez, former president of Venezuela.

Like Chavez, Trump is a populist. Their power is based in part on divisions and setting up a certain amount of paranoia within the population. (With Chavez, it was the rich and the Americans, with Trump its Mexican rapists, muslims, and "The establishment".) While Chavez never became a "dictator" in the proper sense of the word, he did take several steps towards that goal (limiting freedom of press for the opposition)... this is similar to the way Trump wants to broaden Libel laws against news papers.

And while Chavez has lead Venezuela's economy to ruin with socialist policies, Trump will likely do the same with his lack of business sense.

[segnosaur]

Trump's plan to kill children...

...If its a case of changing positions, what does it way about a potential political leader who will take such a questionable position, and stick by it for an extended length of time, without doing basic fact checking?

Answered your own question...it just means that he/she is a politician with aspirations for higher office.

Trump's plan to target and kill children should have been a non-starter. Even I (who is not an American) knows that the military would consider such orders to be illegal.

This is not a case where a politician changes their stance based on outside factors changing. The laws against killing children were in place before Trump opened his mouth. He should have known it was a bad policy. Yet he proposed it, and stuck by his assessment even after the initial blowback.

I would rather not have the U.S. president be someone who understands so little about the military and international politics that they would think to propose killing children in the first place.

[bush_cheney2004]

U.S. presidents do not run the American economy. They can influence fiscal policy, social programs, trade, and taxes with support from Congress. Growth, prices, and wages are not controlled by the president.

[taxme]

This has already been explained multiple times. Go way back to post #2.

In short: Trump is a failure as a businessman, with multiple bankruptcies and a string of failed businesses under his belt. I would rather not put the economy in the hands of someone with that little business sense. Furthermore, the number of lies he tells exceeds those of other candidates, and his grasp of economics, politics and international relations is poor (e.g. pigs blood bullets, the 42% unemployment rate, etc.)

Uhh.. no. As has been explained multiple times in this thread...

Many feel that Trump's incompetence will be detrimental to the world as a whole, both economically and politically. Regardless of Trump's "friendliness" with Canada, or the desire to maintain good relations between the 2 nations, having the U.S. economy crash the way so many of Trump's business ventures have crashed will not be good for Canada.

And what makes you think that?

Prior to the ouster of Kadaffy, Trump was calling for the U.S. to get involved in Libya. (Of course, since then, he's gone and lied about the issue.) And, he has also called for the bombing of oil fields controlled by Isis. He has also said he would deliberately kill children.

Doesn't sound like a peacenick to me.

http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2016-02-26/ap-fact-check-trump-objects-to-cursing

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/11/trump-on-bombing-isis-oil-fields/

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/mar/3/donald-trump-says-hed-force-us-military-commit-war/

Trump has been sued multiple times. He is currently under investigation for fraud for his role in Trump University. (This is in addition to all the other businesses that have folded with Trump's name on them, leaving other investors on the hook for millions of dollars.)

Yeah, its easy to pick on other Candidates as being part of the "establishment", But if you are going to get rid of the establishment, you should try to replace it with something better.

Many people have started up many businesses, and some have lost most if not all of that business. Nothing new here. Remember Target?

So, you would prefer to put the hands of America into the hands of Hillary(who also has an indictment against her) who supports the bankster warmongers but not into the hands of someone who knows how to run a business and gets things done. Trump wants to see the end of government wasteful spending. He is going to take on the establishment, and the people who gave the world 2008. Hillary will be a disaster for America.

Trump has many businesses that are working just fine. Trump is worth billions, and those business enterprises that he owns are making lots of money for himself. It always amuses me as to why people will attack someone who tells it like it is, is doing pretty good with his business ventures, and says that the old Hillary establishment days are over, and the people will now come first. That works for me. Politicians pretty well lie all the time. When was the last time your representatives really told you the real story? So, why keep picking on Trump? I don't get it? Give the guy a chance. I want too.

It is obvious that you are not a Trump supporter so you only want to look for the faults in the man, but not some of the good. I am no angel, and neither is Trump, and neither is anyone here. We all have faults. But at least Trump appears to be more credible than the rest of the candidates do. And if you tried hard enough, I am sure you can find many faults in the rest of the Republican candidates running for President. During the debates, Trump has already pointed out a few faults of Rubio and Cruz. But that is not important, eh? Who cares? There are many who would rather have liars, as Trump has called some of them, as President rather than Trump. I have watched many of the debates, and I see nor feel any kind of threat coming from Trump. Trump wants to take on all the free trade deals which have cost the American people billions but which have made billions for corporations. i don't believe that any Canadian free trade deals have been good for Canada or Canadians either. Just my opinion, of course.

[segnosaur]

Trump did not call Mexicans primarily rapists and criminals. He did not vow to "intern" Muslims.

“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

No where there does he say or infer that Mexicans are primarily rapists and criminals.

Well, keep in mind that in his little statement, he makes 3 accusations about Mexicans... drugs/crime/rapists. Then he tacks on "some, I assume are good people". He's not even giving them enough benefit of the doubt to say some are definitely good people.

Hearing his statement, its quite logical to take away the assumption that he is suggesting a mexican crime wave.

This guy is a buffoon with motivation. And should he get to the Whitehouse, all of his bad ideas will get shredded in Congress, just like Obama's bad ideas did.

The problem is, congress does have limits on what it can do to mitigate Trump's damage. They can't (for example) fix any sort of foreign policy issues if Trump's stupidity damages relations with other countries. They can reject various nominations he might make, but they can't propose new ones.

[bush_cheney2004]

Trump's plan to target and kill children should have been a non-starter. Even I (who is not an American) knows that the military would consider such orders to be illegal.

Depends...U.S. strategic forces are explicitly maintained at a high state of readiness to "kill children" on a very large scale by design. I have no idea why "children" are held in higher regard than other male or female civilians in this (Trump said) context.

This is not a case where a politician changes their stance based on outside factors changing. The laws against killing children were in place before Trump opened his mouth. He should have known it was a bad policy. Yet he proposed it, and stuck by his assessment even after the initial blowback.

Yes he did, and this was/is his choice. As of today, he has the most delegates for his party's nomination even after he said such things.

I would rather not have the U.S. president be someone who understands so little about the military and international politics that they would think to propose killing children in the first place.

Perhaps, but much of it is already in place after decades of layered protocols, policies, and military interventions. "Killing children" is a reality that even you admit to above with several qualifications. Trump just admits to it.

[segnosaur]

Many people have started up many businesses, and some have lost most if not all of that business. Nothing new here. Remember Target?

Trump business have declared bankruptcy 4 times. 4.

And yes, Target did fail when they came to Canada. But you know what? It didn't cause them to declare bankruptcy.

So, you would prefer to put the hands of America into the hands of Hillary(who also has an indictment against her) who supports the bankster warmongers but not into the hands of someone who knows how to run a business and gets things done.

What makes you think he knows how to run a business?

Trump's travel website. Trump vodka. Trump mortgage. Trump university. Trump steaks. Trump airlines. Know what they have in common? They all went out of business.

Trump has more in common with the Kim Kardashians of the world (more or less talentless, but "famous for being famous") than in common with someone like Warren Buffet, who's wealth has grown faster than Trump's has.

Trump has many businesses that are working just fine. Trump is worth billions...

Actually, we don't know how much Trump is worth. He won't release his financials.

As for his "business sense" Forbes said he might be worth $4 billion. Trump claimed he was worth ~200 million in the 70s. Had he put his money into an index fund (i.e. he didn't even have to "pick" stocks) he'd be worth ~12 billion. So Trump's businesses are doing worse than the stock market and the economy as a whole.

, and those business enterprises that he owns are making lots of money for himself. It always amuses me as to why people will attack someone who tells it like it is,

Because he doesn't "tell it like it is". He has been found lying more often than any of the other candidates.

...is doing pretty good with his business ventures

Business ventures that would have been more successful if he just left his cash in the stock market and didn't touch it.

Oh, and I should point out... Trump got his start by having family connections. (A sizeable inheritance, plus the ability to borrow money based on his father's reputation.) Yeah, self made man there.

But at least Trump appears to be more credible than the rest of the candidates do.

Except he's not... because as politifact showed. he lies more often than the other candidates. This has been explained to you. Over and over again. And over again. Someone would have to be pretty brain damaged to not understand that.